Ketamine For Depression? (Page 7)

It was recommended by the members of a separate thread that one be started that directly relates to ketamine and it's use to treat depression.

If anyone besides myself would like to discuss it's use as a treatment for depression, feel free to post your questions, answers and experiences here.

This thread is an offshoot of a related one that discussed a treatment of Scopolamine for depression.

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From what I've read, that isn't all that uncommon. They say Ketamine is only a temporary fix if it works at all.

Did they use the same amounts of Ketamine in the last infusion? I know they change the formula when it's infused because if they didn't, you would be under like anesthesia, and when it wore off, be back to the same as before.

I guess with infusion, you don't go under like with anaesthesia??

Were you awake the whole time for both procedures?

I bet they didn't use the same amount as when you had it the first time, I would look into that especially if you paid out of pocket.

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I was involved in a study in Hoffman Estates, IL at Alexian Bros. Mental health Center using Ketamine infusions. I was the first pt. in the study, so no way was I going to get placebo.

They are very nice and caring, esp. the nurse, Dan, who accompanied me during the infusions. The first 3 weeks I received infusions 3x per week. Didn't feel that much different, but by the end of the week, it was like a miracle, just as I've read. I have had TRD for 17 years, tried everything except ECT. Nothing works.

All the people close to me said I was like a different person, and I was- the REAL me. My sense of humor, sexual response, cognition, optimism, hope for the future, all BACK! The suicidal ideation, guilt, self-loathing, pessimism, hopelessness, helplessness - GONE! For about a month and a half, it was a wonderful life! I have always been good with words, but I had forgotten how good.

Gradually the infusions tapered off, I noticed that after a week, the negative thinking, the emptiness, sadness and pain were back with a vengeance. Back to my normal, miserable self and I can't live like this much longer.

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BTW, they are still recruiting for this study, it's being done through Mass General and I believe there are multiple sites. I think if you google depression, it will come up as one of those ads for recruitment.

I am not over-exaggerating, It WAS A MIRACLE! and glad to read about NIH, trying to get into a scopolamine infusion study, I am an RN so I have knowledge of meds. Scopolamine is a drug they give for motion sickness, if it works, which the RN running the study told me she had a pt who did the infusions and it 'took', the med is old common and cheap. It comes in the form of a little circular patch that you put behind your ear, 3mg, leave it on for 3 days.

So I don't know if you have to have the infusions first or what, but I have used this drug before, when not depressed. I used it for a cruise in case of seasickness because I was 7 mo. pregnant- that's how safe it is! felt nothing whatsoever, no SE. I have read that it can be had in Canada w/ no prescription. I am also going to contact the doc in San Diego, see what he has to say, disappointed to hear about the nasal spray (ketamine) called the doc in NYC re injections, hell, I am trained to give them, why couldn't I do it to myself? also trying 'druggie sites' to score some myself, no luck w/ that yet. But as I said before, I didn't feel anything after just one, don't know if it was after the second that week or the third, but DEFINITELY after the 3rd one that week, Halleleuja! I found that it lasts about a week, but I think 2 a week would be optimal. Gonna make some inquiries, research, will get back. Supposed to hear by the end of this week from NIH, Best of luck to all, so glad I found this site!!!

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I am curious to know if anyone has tried Ketamine transdermal. I have tried the intranasal ketamine with no success. We are considering the transdermal to see if that may help. Any thoughts?

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I find your opinion to be TOTALLY ignorant of the facts and sorry, very insulting as I am so frikken TIRED of hearing from those who do not know the FACT that depression is a MEDICAL ILLNESS!! It is a chemical malfunction of neurotransmitter systems, physical changes in the brain due to depression can be VISUALIZED ON BRAIN SCANS! OK?? This is called SCIENTIFIC FACT!! It's not 'boo hoo, my boyfriend broke up with me and now all I want to do is eat chocolate!'. Psychotherapy CAN be very helpful, but you need to find a good therapist which can take a lot of trial and error effort. Since I am on disability due to my 17 year battle with this serious medical problem, I am limited to therapists through the county, if you do happen to find one that you click with they don't last long cuz the pay is crappy and caseload is ridiculous. The other 'lifestyle' interventions are all well and good, glad you are having success with them. But PLEASE! Learn the facts, do not dismiss my medical problem as something that can be cured with talk, food and sleep. It is a DEVASTATING, potentially deadly, serious brain DISEASE! Be educated and educate others because nothing sucks worse than your own family SHUNNING you because they think you are lazy and enjoy spending the day in bed. You have no IDEA how painful and demoralizing it is for people to be dismissive of your daily, constant suffering.

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Dr. Steven Best in Deerfield, IL gives Ketamine infusions for depression. Be sure to bring a FAT wallet! $300 for initial consultation, $300 for the TMS treatment he must administer and $315 for anesthesiologist to infuse. I have been in contact with him personally, I really don't *get* why some will do this (for big bucks) but others won't touch it with a 10 foot pole! I have had close to 20 infusions through a study and nurses were able to administer. I know that a doc in NYC gives IM injections of K for depression, don't know details. But in my experience, the truly MIRACULOUS effects of the infusions wore off after about a week. I am coming into a relatively small inheritance, I might try Best. Going to look into meds that may prolong the miracle, I have read about a few. BTW, I called one of the docs that give K for pain, infusions are about every 6 weeks and I believe it is given intra-nasally during the time between infusions. Going to research the efficacy of this regimen.

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Dear Pam-

My angry response was not directed at you, it was in response to a MUCH earlier post to a person that had the ignorance and gall to state that TRD is all about 'feelings' and I become IRATE because this is a reason why people with our illness do not get the kind of empathy and emotional support , or have a special 'color' and education comparable to Breast Cancer or heart disease (prolly cuz we don't have the energy to get out of the house to advocate for ourselves, lol.)

This person stated that talk therapy could lead to the only 'real' cure. And as I so angrily addressed this idiot (sorry) it is a MEDICAL, physiologically-based disease of chemical malfunction in the brain, clearly visible on different types of scans.

To my great sorrow and frustration, my family refuses to accept this, and my ex-husband, a true narcissist-sociopath, has used my illness to help alienate my children from me, telling them I just feel sorry for myself. As my 19y/o daughter said to me "you have been on so many different pills and treatment, why don't you get better?". Really? " Mom, you never get rid of that Breast Cancer. You have tried so many different pills and treatments, but it keeps coming back! What the hell is wrong with you, just not TRYING hard enough??" Sorry for my soap box, but depression is an 'invisible disability' just because you can get out of the house once a week or so and smear some lipstick on, you must not be that sick, right?

Ok, back to the Ketamine trials nation-wide that administers MANY infusions, and they actually pick you up, bring you home, and pay you $75 each visit for your trouble. I am going online after this and see if the trial is still posted and where offered, will report back. But as I stated, a week after the last infusion, symptoms do return. My last 3 infusions were administered every other week, and I could tell after a week, not feeling it anymore. Also have tried Riluzole , did nothing for me. This drug shouldn't be that expensive, it's been around a long time...but I am on Medicare/Medicaid and get extra help paying for meds, nothing over $4, although if it is something new they will deny coverage and they gave me the Riluzole. BTW Pam, have never heard of sub-q Ketamine, would appreciate to know how you heard of this. Again , my apologies to you for any misunderstanding and wish you all the best in your quest as well as mutual sharing of anything that might be beneficial to each other and anyone else to be afflicted.

Cheers,

Paula

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From my own experience (and accounts from about 5 other people), intranasal ketamine is simply a waste of time and money.

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Thanks Gerry ,

It does sound like a lot of folks are not too keen on the 'benefits' of intra-nasal. But I wonder if you have an infusion first, then the intra-nasal, if that would be like a 'booster'? IDK, but I am going to try the pain doc approach, I have legit back probs (who doesn't?). Any way, here is THE BIG KETAMINE STUDY news, same that I participated in w/ multiple infusions. One caveat - some might receive placebo. I know FOR SURE I did not, I was their first pt. for this particular site. Plus the amazing reaction I had to the med!! As I have stated earlier, did not feel anything after the first one except a little fatigue. Nor did I really notice anything after the second infusion. But prior to my 3rd infusion that week, spoke with doc who was running the study, he asked if I felt any different. I said not really, why? He told me that staff noticed that I was 'brighter'.

After my 3rd infusion that week (M,W,F), there was no doubt, I was TOTALLY DIFFERENT !! Joyous and happy to be ALIVE! And also, as I stated before, due to some genetic factor, people with a personal or familial issue regarding alcoholism are more likely to have a robust response. Enough about me, here is the info regarding this awesome clinical trial.

Google 'mydepressionstudy.com' . There are many study sites NATIONWIDE! Sorry, not techie enough to get the link right here. A few criteria that will disqualify you!! No addicts, psychotic features, will have to wean off certain meds ie: Lamictal, which also works on the glutamatergic neurotransmitter system, and certain level of benzo's. There could be others, these are the ones which I was involved with. Suicidal ideation is acceptable, prolly not attempts. They asked why I did not act upon my thoughts, and very honestly I told them that I could not do that to my children, although there were many days that I wished I would not wake up.

So go to 'MYDEPRESSIONSTUDY.COM' (lower case letters, just used uppercase for attention). I was told they are having trouble recruiting! STUDY SITES THROUGHOUT USA! I am talking LOTS! $75 per visit. It is time consuming, if you have a steady, 9-5 job, forget it. But then, if you're able to hold a job like that, IMHO, you really aren't that sick. I hope some of the people that were posting in the summer from Cali will see this, because there are a TON of study sites in CALI! And they pay you, not steal from the sick. But... If it is effective, how to get more? I don't get why some will charge you out the wazoo to get it, but there are others, like Dr Fruitman in NYC who gives IM injections, I bet it's the nurses giving the shots, not him!!! It so SUCKS, this is my life, started after birth of my son when I was 36, now almost 53 with NO remission, EVER! Except for this cheap, safe drug that has been in use since the 1950's, so safe that it is widely used in a Pediatric population . And it is accepted by FDA for IV use in the chronic pain population. But I just don't get it, this one will give it but that one won't . As I said, Dr Fruitman in NYC clinic just gives you 2 shots in the butt, 15 min. apart (pretty damn sure the nurses are giving the shots), then I believe 1 hour, not positive, but a period of observation afterward, prolly taking vital signs like BP, pulse, temp., then good to go!! But here in Chicago, one guy will give it for depression, but anesthesiologist must administer, and the cost per infusion is basically $900. And from what I've read here, Cali is just as expensive if not WORSE! It's disgusting how these people hold the key to your happy life and will rob you blind to get it.

If anyone has suggestions about how a grassroots organization can be started, who to contact, etc. regarding this med, as well as scope, that are old and cannot be exploited by big Pharma to enrich themselves, but are desperately needed by you and I to live and contribute to society instead of drawing SS and Medicare while we lie on the couch wishing we were dead, how can we get action? I know run on sentence, but am tired. But not so tired that I can't still be ANGRY by what is going on with Ketamine, and I want to know WHY some docs do this and others do that, there are definitely a lot of discrepancies in the administration of this drug. No doubt money has a lot to do with it.

Thanks for letting me rant, I hope that there are a lot of folks who will see this and will benefit from the trial.

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Pam, where are you getting treated with the Ketamine? How often will they treat? I don't know why intra-dermal wouldn't work, it will be absorbed by the body and quickly. What dosage? I would think that the amount of the med would be too large of volume to do intra dermal. I am an RN, but I don't know everything lol.

Thanks for the info.

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First off, I am glad to finally find a place with personal anecdotes for using ketamine for depression. Does anyone know of any other forums?

Like many of you I have severe biopolar 2 depression that is unrelenting, ruined my life and I have triedd many many meds over the years to no avail. My situation is different about obtaining it is different. A good friend is a doctor and agreed to obtain a vial of ketamine and perform the infusion as a giant favor for me. He did an IV "push" of .5mg/kg over about 20 minutes. It was the most intense hallucinations and intoxication I have ever experienced. I was completely intoxicated for hours and it was not scary per se but just very intense and not something I want to repeat, at least not that way. Anyway, I honestly did not get much relief from it outside of placebo probably. There is enough for multiple more doses but I have to do it differently b/c I don;t want to be intoxicated like that again. BTW, the vial, which is enough for about 15 doses at .5mg/kg cost his office $5.00.

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are there any people out there who have had success with the .5mg ketamine injections, and who once the effects wore off, just continued gettting more injections. i realize the financial cost is generally outrageous, and this keeps most from being able to do this. but are there any out there with chronic major depression and/or anxiety, ptsd etc, who have regualrly had the injections for a year or more? and if so, has the ketamine (at the same dose, and at the same frequency of injection) maintained its efficacy? perhaps there's someone out there who either can financially afford this, or who has special circumstances allowing for regular injections, who could answer this? my example would be that say if ketamine injection works well for 10 days, but by day 11 it generally starts losing its effectiveness for someone, and so then the person uses this as their schedule of injection (.5mg injection every 10 days); does the drug tend to maintain its efficacy? or do people generally need higher doses or more frequent shots over time? or perhaps the opposite; as synapses form and neurons repair (and whatever else the apparrent NMDA antagonism /glutamate modulation etc does), perhaps people over time began to build sustainable lasting benefits from the ketamine, and can then began spacing out injections/titrating off until it's no longer needed? this would of course be the ideal. does anyone know of cases where the drug atleast maintains its efficacy over a year or longer with regular scheduled injections? i am told by a very reputable psychiatrist that this can very well be the case. and that it's only the cost, inconvenience, and potential discomfort (hallucinatory etc) of the injection administration that keeps this from being performed. he tells me that at this dosage and at no closer than 10 days between shots, there is NO reported lab abnormalities, bladder or kidney problems,,,and that the drug generally keeps its efficacy indefinitely (for those who it works for initially). is there anyone out there who could confirm this, or provide any info of known cases that supports this line of thinking? i already know that of course ketamine doesnt work for everyone, but for those who it does help......any data on above questions? any patients recieving regular longterm injections out there??

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Well I had 2 infusions 2 weeks apart. The second infusion was done "correctly" , and took effect slower , so there was only a slight intoxication. Which was much better mentally to deal with. But I am afraid I may a non-responder to this drug, which really bums me out. I definitely felt that it has greatly helped my anxiety and occassional panic attacks. Alot in fact. But I am still having pretty bad break through depression in the same pattern as before - which is dysthymia punctuated with a couple of random days a week of basically being so depressd I'm suicidal. I am going to keep trying but again, and keep posting.

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sad james, does your doctor friend know to use .5mg per kg your body weight? if you can tolerate the initial altered state, then you can move up doses by .1mg per kg until maybe you feel better. i would stop at .9mg however, and if still noticing no effect, maybe try find someone with experience for advice. your dr friend could call any of the doctors mentioned on this site for info/advice

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also, if you truly feel the ketamine is helping your anxiety (and not something else doing this),, then this is a good sign to stick with it, i believe. glutamate is mainly an excitatory NT. as the synapses repair (as seen in studies), over time the depression may lessen as well. in other words, those of us with depression and anxiety, it seems (from what little i have gathered) that the anxiety lessens first for some. also, i would recommend taking n-acetylcysteine 2000mg every day (1000mg 2x). this wont cause noticeable results, if ever, until as far as 3 months, but it is very good glutamate modulator, and precursor to glutathione (perhaps most powerful antioxidant). even if symptoms remain, this is nothing but good to take

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are there any people out there who have had success with the .5mg ketamine injections, and who once the effects wore off, just continued gettting more injections. i realize the financial cost is generally outrageous, and this keeps most from being able to do this. but are there any out there with chronic major depression and/or anxiety, ptsd etc, who have regualrly had the injections for a year or more? and if so, has the ketamine (at the same dose, and at the same frequency of injection) maintained its efficacy? perhaps there's someone out there who either can financially afford this, or who has special circumstances allowing for regular injections, who could answer this? my example would be that say if ketamine injection works well for 10 days, but by day 11 it generally starts losing its effectiveness for someone, and so then the person uses this as their schedule of injection (.5mg injection every 10 days); does the drug tend to maintain its efficacy? or do people generally need higher doses or more frequent shots over time? or perhaps the opposite; as synapses form and neurons repair (and whatever else the apparrent NMDA antagonism /glutamate modulation etc does), perhaps people over time began to build sustainable lasting benefits from the ketamine, and can then began spacing out injections/titrating off until it's no longer needed? this would of course be the ideal. does anyone know of cases where the drug atleast maintains its efficacy over a year or longer with regular scheduled injections? i am told by a very reputable psychiatrist that this can very well be the case. and that it's only the cost, inconvenience, and potential discomfort (hallucinatory etc) of the injection administration that keeps this from being performed. he tells me that at this dosage and at no closer than 10 days between shots, there is NO reported lab abnormalities, bladder or kidney problems,,,and that the drug generally keeps its efficacy indefinitely (for those who it works for initially). is there anyone out there who could confirm this, or provide any info of known cases that supports this line of thinking? i already know that of course ketamine doesnt work for everyone, but for those who it does help......any data on above questions? any patients recieving regular longterm injections out there??

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I have never happy all of mt 57 years, it's along story.
all I know is i was driver by criticism, it drove me past my limits, I got bit by a mosquito and contracted west nile and viral meningitis. that was june 2010,, it almost killed me, I feel so sick and weak , I have become a recluse,I don't want to go anywhere,, AND THAT IS NOT ME !!!!!!! I have a race I don't care I have a Nice house I oen mt on buiiness, not dioing well because of my health which is a super deep dark depression, I feel like I don't want to live one more secund, The love of my lies waswas diagnosed wiyh myeloma bone caner
, that did it for me I lost it..... I started taking NORCO 10-325 to cope ,but I ieaarned real quict I was takingbtommuch so I quite , that hurt, never just stop you will want to die,, anyway if someome could me so help befi\ore I snap pleasr do life means nothiy to me HELP !!!R

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I am new to this forum and have just read John's post about his experience with Ketamine and Hope's reply. I am making arrangements now to get a first round of K infusions and am hopeful. I, too, am sorry to hear, John, that you did not respond to this treatment. I am also GLAD to read Hope's post that we lobby and pressure those in power to step up clinical research, etc. to GET TO THE CRUX OF DEPRESSION. and other Mental Illnesses...I have major depression, non-responsive to any antidepressant and sought out clinical trials on K. I first discovered that research with K was happening about years ago and was initially stunned that K was simultaneously being studied for depression and on the DEA website as being a "dangerous club drug...." I was totally confused and didn't pursue a trial at that time. My depression has become so persistant and totally resistant to AD's that target serotonin, etc. that I am quite willing to try anything....except ect, street drugs (go figure...K!) and alcohol. Bottom line...I recently applied to trials in NYC at New York State Psych Institute (associated with Columbia University and Columbia/NY Presbyterian Hospital) and at Yale...I was rejected during second interview at NYSPI, but treated very well and given info on K infusions available for depression. Which confused me even more...anyway, I am willing to spend money that I don't have to attempt this treatment. Any advice, feedback, etc. is greatly appreciated and urgently needed. Also...has anyone found any monetary assistance for any part of this....travel, medical treatment, etc. It is very, very expensive...and I have to travel quite a ways...but, folks, the alternative is not pretty and I feel like I am quickly approaching that point. Be well...and thanks for your input.

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Hi, just lost a long thread as I was trying to post. Read John's post as to his lack of response to K treatment and Hope's reply that we all need to lobby and pressure for better treatment for depression. I am ALL ABOUT THAT and would like to be kept informed on any activity...also, any input or advice regarding K infusions would be greatly appreciated and are urgently needed. I am about to schedule a first round of 4 infusions and it is going to cost me a great deal for the infusions, travel and accomodations...I am at a point that I am willing to spend outrageous money for relief...the alternative is not pleasant...thanks....

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Michael...you seem to be the guy in the know here...I am guessing that you started this thread? I am new here and posted a pretty long "introductory" just a few minutes ago. I am curious about the nasal K....I am about to invest a fortune for a first round of infusions in NYC....but I also can't afford this over time. would love to hear more about the K nasal....I will even give you my cell phone number privately in an email if you would contact me. I am scheduling treatment soon in NYC....a Dr. Brooks if anyone has had any experience with him would appreciate feedback. He was recommened by a psych doc from NYSPI......very educated on the subject, was compassionate, seems his prices are in order with what I see here and if a pdoc recommended him, I am ok with that. At this point....I don't have a thing to lose, most seriously. Thanks

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