Ketamine For Depression? (Page 6)

It was recommended by the members of a separate thread that one be started that directly relates to ketamine and it's use to treat depression.

If anyone besides myself would like to discuss it's use as a treatment for depression, feel free to post your questions, answers and experiences here.

This thread is an offshoot of a related one that discussed a treatment of Scopolamine for depression.

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john, if you're still checking this thread, can you tell us how your trip to SD for the infusion went? I hope you're feeling better

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hi lahelp-

i was hesitant to reply about my infusion experience. i did not want to influence negatively on anyone's hope.

i did not respond to the infusion. really bummed. might have had about a 2 day placebo effect, if even that.

not sure what my next course of action will be. it seems that those who do not respond to the first infusion are most likely not to respond to further infusions.

how did things go for you up at ucla? i hope you got some relief.

john

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John:

I'm so very sorry you did not respond to the infusion. With reports of positive results its easy to forget that the response is not 100%.

With new studies of ketamine and other dissociatives well underway, I truly believe we are only months away from new and effective treatment for this devastating disease and that will be a time of joy.

We need to persist in putting pressure on decision-makers to fund research and focus on these off-label drugs.

888, I second your motion to create a forum to pursue this topic, including lobbying for action on making ketamine and other dissociatives available to meet this crying need. When it comes to mental health, the medical community does not recognise an emergency, and we need to change that.

By raising our voices to the decision-makers, we can inform and hold them accountable, here in Canada and also in the USA and other countries where research is being performed.

Thank you, John, for your update. I'm sure I speak for everyone that we share your disappointment. It's proof that more needs to be done, and fast.

We need to take ownership to ensure our tax dollars more efficiently address our research needs in new ways, rather than yet another variation of the same old thing that does not work.

Kind regards.

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Can you tell me more about the ketamine nasal spray? It sounds better than an injection. does it have lower side effects? How long have you used it and does it help?
I have tried so many things over my life and I really want to feel better.

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Does anyone have any experience with Ketamine withdrawals?

I haven't taken my spray in about a week and I'm tired, have a huge headache, and very cranky and irritable.

Perhaps I should've weened myself off instead of cold turkeying it.

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BEWARE of NIH. Deceptive Recruitment Techniques!

Those idiots rushed me to Bethesda without medical records then sent me home the next day. I'm filing complaints anywhere I can, I was promised a study (not necessarily Ketamine) and 5 weeks of treatment which was a bold faced lie.

Some patients said they flew out people who never tried an antidepressant EVER?
What's wrong with those recruiters?

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I had similar problems with NIH. They were encouraging and I sent them my medication list and did a long telephone screening. Then they wanted more records. Then they said they made an error )oversight) and told me I was not eligible. Not a great thing to do to depressed people - get their hopes up and then dash them!

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JackiesGone - why did they send you home? What reason were they excluding you from the study for? Did they not require medical records prior to bringing you there? What are your options now?

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BEWARE of any NIH study. I qualified and they rushed me to Bethesda in 3 days. When I got there (the luggage fees are on your dime BTW), they got my medical records and said I didn't qualify because one doctor said I had essential tremor. It was actually the adderall I take in the morning & not a tremor per a second Neurology.
Anyway, they lied to me at NIH and said if I couldn't do Ketamine study I could do other studies and then get the 2 month treatment program.So I showed up with 4 months of clothing and personal items planning a long stay.

Then come to find out there were no "other" studies and they sent me home the next day. Waste of time and I'm stuck paying off the baggage fees on no income. WTF?

Very deceptive at NIH. Reported them to DHHS and the DOJ since they are note allowed to lie to participants.

While waiting to go home, someone else there told me that another person came and went in one day because "she was never on an antidepressant in her life". That was one of the 3 main qualifications and they didn't ask??

What a mess that was. I'm stills fighting for,my money back and to get Nancy Brutche fired since she's a s***ty recruiter and liar!

I was ready to kill myself before I left for MD, now I have NO HOPE of ever getting well. This is the worst damn disease. Maybe I'll buy the damn Ketamine on the street seeing as I can't find help after searching for 6 years for it.

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Just a quick update on my progress with the nasal ketamine.

After roughly 3 months on the ketamine nasal spray, I have decided to quit. I was administering the spray 1-2x a week in various doses, usually increasing the dose higher than the previous dose, in hopes that I would experience any type of antidepressant reaction. The most I'd feel not depressed and actually have positive and reassuring thoughts was during the ketamine high. These feelings of self-assurance and self-motivation were short lived and never carried over to the next day. I'd just feel dysthymic throughout the week until my next dose.

After a week passed since my last dose I felt the withdrawal symptoms: headache, irritability, lethargy. Rather than ween myself off the ketamine, I decided to rough it out. The withdrawal symptoms passed in about 3 days. I'm still a bit lethargic and tire around 3-5pm, requiring a nap.

I was hoping to feel how I felt during the pre-depression days, but that never happened. I wanted to want to do things, smile, laugh, enjoy life, etc. At least that's what I was expecting to happen when I first decided to pursue the Ketamine treatment. I guess I was looking for a miracle cure, like many of us are. After reading and hearing about the successful cases, I had my hopes aimed pretty high that I could take this drug and be the same person that I remember myself to be.

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I know this topic is about Ketamine, but what about Dextromethorphan(sp)? It is similar to Ketamine and a lot easier to get.
I suffer horrible pain from Fibromyalgia, severe anxiety and depression. Because of my past addiction to opiates, I have been flagged in my charts as an opiate addict so I cannot recieve pain meds, which means I have to self-medicate. After becoming so desperate I finally tried DXM and it has been the most wonderful experience in my life. My pain is gone for at least 8+ hours, absolutely no depression and no need to take my anti-anxiety meds while on it. And the comedown is great. Nothing but smiles and laughs. Take it 8 hours before bed and you will sleep like a rock. To put it bluntly, this med could put Big Pharma and it's pain killers out of business if they could find a way to give the proper dose without feeling "high". Again, I know this is off topic, but reading that quite a few people have had not so great results with nasal Ketamine, I thought this could be of some help. The only problem I have is I feel so pain free I over do things and feel it the next day. Live and learn. BTW, it comes in Robotussin and the like, generic too, for about 5 bucks. The University of Florida had done studies on this med. Do some research on your dose, but by all means don't be afraid of it. I'd be more afraid of the Ketamine messing up my bladder/kidneys.

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The reason was one neurological report in my chart said I had "what appears to be essential tremor".
My doctor told me, not the neurologist and sent me to another for a 2nd opinion.
That's neurologist agreed with me that my hands were likely shaking that day because I have to take adderall to get out of bed (chronic fatigue ).

So it blows my mind the NIH can spend over $1000 tax payer dollars to rush me there only to get the records and see essential tremor then send me home??

I met one guy who said "I wish we got Ketamine every day". So I said 'it must work then' and he just smiled and said 'they don't like us to discuss the study with each other'.
Long story short, you only get one infusion during the 8 week study and the goal is to be able to use it in the ER for suicidal patients until they can get into a facility to treat the MDD.
It's only going to ever be used for immediate, emergency situations like that, never for a treatment because the depression comes back in 2 weeks or less.

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Has anyone on this forum heard of this clinic?
ketamine4depression.com/

I'm in Ontario, but this clinic and Dr fruitman who does the injections are in NYC. Would be do-able just to see if this treatment works.

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My opinion now ,after learning what the goal of the NIH Ketamine study was, is that it will NEVER receive FDA approval for long term treatment of Depression or Major Depression.

It is an addictive substance and is only effective for a very short time (up to 2 weeks). The depression returned in 80 or 90% of patients who had the infusion.

Furthermore, the study shows (so far) that Ketamine is only effective at treating depression for short term when it is given via IV infusion.

The doctors at the NIH said nasal sprays and the like do not not get enough Ketamine into the system to effect the depression.
That's why an anesthesiologist administers it to study participants only one time during the 8 week study.

The infusion takes 40 minutes so you can imagine the amount of ketamine your getting is more than in the nasal sprays and it's formulated differently because they do NOT want to sedate you. Ketamine is an anaesthetic used for surgery in some children.

If you fall asleep during the study, you cannot continue in the study. I was told out of 100 people who've had the infusion, 4 fell asleep but that's from the lady who lied about the whole thing so I don't know how much of that part I believe.

This information was given to me (except the last sentence) by NIH study physicians so it's accurate.

My thinking was I would be glad to get a weeks worth of relief and participate in the study even if I got the depression back.

I was also promised an 8-12 week treatment phase upon completion of the study where the top docs in the nation would try some new combinations of meds to treat my MDD. That was the part I was really looking forward to but I was brought there under false pretenses.

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Em, that's very interesting!!

I went through 3 levels of phone qualification, each time speaking to someone higher up in the food chain.

Be glad they didn't promise you the study, fly you out, then send you home like they did with me.

To me that was worse than being denied before I packed my bags and incurred expenses to get there and back.

Now I see why the FDA has to recall so many drugs after they are put on the market. There is no oversight or accountability at the NIH.

Private drug companies probably follow stricter self set guidelines than the NIH does.

The NIH has no problem wasting tax payer money on incidents like you and I had.

I know who I'm voting for in the election and it's not the current president-lol.

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From what the NIH docs told me, John's experience isn't
all that unusual. I met about 10 people in the study while in Bethesda and only 3 had a positive experience with the infusion.

All of us were "treatment resistant Major Depression" sufferers so we all knew what it was like not to be able to get better.

The NIH docs said Ketamine use for emergency room patients who came in suicidal, was at least 3 years away from being considered as an option. Likely longer to actually be FDA approved.

Not everyone responds to it as far as having depression symptoms relieved and the NIH docs said multiple times, the effects haven't ever been shown to work longer than 2 weeks.

So Ketamine will never be used as a treatment, period. The goal of the study is to have a fast way to treat suicidal patients so they don't commit suicide before they are taken somewhere for long term treatment.

I can't tell you how many times every person at the NIH who qualified me and the treating physicians made that very clear.

I feel it's important to share this with everyone reading this because many, including myself, were/are under the impression this is a cure or a treatment. It is not and there are "no plans to make it such a treatment".

I also feel some people who can't afford these infusions and nasal sprays some docs are using, will find a way to pay for it only to find it was a waste to money that could be better spent elsewhere or may even get the "street" Ketamine.

That, to me, would be disastrous and possibly result in jail time. The last thing any of us suffering with this horrible disease need is another problem to add to our list.

I think the people who posted links to other drugs & treatment forums are on the right path, we need to forget Ketamine as a solution for MDD and look to newer, more long term treatments and medications.

I don't say this to be snooty or because I don't understand people wanting to get Ketamine on their own, it crossed my mind as well. But I've already spend over $70,000 on meds, docs, and treatments that didn't work and I've had Major Depressive Disorder for 20+ years.

Lastly, my major depression went "off the charts" bad in about 2006-2007 and I have not had a remission (even for 24 hours) since then.

I too am very desperate for any relief I can get but after my experience with the NIH and the whole Ketamine issue, I now see it's not worth any more of time researching or trying to find it.

Having said that, pain patients are a whole different story, from what I understand that is where it is currently being successfully used and if you get someone out of chronic pain, you'll likely reduce their episodes of depression.

I'm only referring to people like myself who don't have severe chronic pain, only have Major Depression. I want to be clear I don't offend anyone who is successfully being treated with Ketamine.
The rest of us, we need to find a better way, and find it fast!!

God bless!!

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The NIH and other people doing clinical trials state you can't have "major depression with psychotic episodes". it has to be major depression without psychotic episode.

So for example, if you hear voices telling you to do this or that or have hallucinations, that's considered psychotic episodes and it's what I was told a "brain barrier" to the ketamine.

I suppose you could leave that out but I wouldn't because the psychosis isn't something anyone should have to suffer with and there are meds for it.

I do understand most people do not like the side effects of those meds and often will not stay on them which is a
personal decision but for some reason it will cause the ketamine to "not be as effective or not effective at all and may make the psychosis much worse".

Actually, one person who did the NIH study lied about the psychosis and he said the Ketamine made him feel like he was "on a week long bad acid trip". Begged for an antidote to the Ketamine ,poor guy.

So hopefully that helps.
Best of luck to you. I hate this disease so much and I feel for each and every one on this forum.

We have strength in numbers!

One side note, Emory University is doing the BEST study in my opinion.
They are implanting electrodes into "Area 25" of the brain, sounds like area 51-lol.

Anyway, their study has shown far better prognosis long-term than Ketamine which is only meant for short term, emergent use (per the NIH study objective).

They implant the electrode during surgery which you are awake for. When they tap into the spot that gives you immediate positive response, the electrode goes there and then you have a little box you take home which can adjust the amount of the current when a button is pressed while the box is held next to your head.

That's the study I wanted to participate in but there are a few catches. One I didn't qualify because I have Essential Tremor in my medical records, 2- you must have private insurance or Medicaid which will pay for the cost of the treatment and surgery, and 3-you pay all costs getting to and from Atlanta as well as all your housing and other expenses while there.
To add to the list of downfalls, there is a 10 year follow up period after you have the surgery which requires you to travel back to Emory for regular check ups and other appointments for a period of 10 years.

My qualm was THIS IS A DAMN STUDY! WHY ARE HUMAN CLINICAL TRIAL PARTICIPANTS PAYING FOR EMORY TO END UP WITH ALL THE GLORY IF THIS IS SOME DAY USED AS A TREATMENT??

Are they serious. I say NO ONE SHOULD BOTHER PAYING TO BE IN A STUDY_EVER!!

If they want to experiment on us, they get plenty of Federal funding for it, WHY MAKE A PATIENT PAY??

And to top it off, name me one insurance company that will pay for experimental brain surgery for a condition classified as "Mental Health Treatment"??

I've worked in the health insurance industry for 10 years, I've NEVER seen a plan or tax free health fund that would ever cover experimental treatments. I hardly ever even saw mental health/substance abuse as a covered benefit until the last couple years and it's minimal at best.

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Sorry I stopped posting - unfortunately, my ketamine infusions at UCLA didn't go well - going in, the only question I had was if the multiple infusions would help prolong the effect - instead, I didn't get the effect at all - it was crushing and completely unexpected - no one knows why it didn't work at UCLA like it did in SD - adjusted a few things each time, but it didn't change - haven't had any infusions since - I want to try to do one again in SD to see if it works like it did - if it does, can go back to trying to figure out why the difference

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Very sorry to report back with another negative story, but my family member with treatment resistant depression had multiple ketamine infusions earlier this week and did not benefit. So devastated, we had hoped that with multiple infusions over three days there would be some amount of relief, but no luck.

That being said, Dr Brooks in NYC did his best and was very professional and sympathetic. Minimum of red tape, he just needed to speak to the psychiatrist and he set up the appointment for a few ays later. He's an anesthesiologist with a private practice.

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That's such a bummer to hear especially when others reported good outcomes.

Just a thought, have you ever asked about Magnesium infusion? The NIH did studies on that a few years ago and many people have said it helped fairly fast.

I can't afford to pay for any treatments not covered through the very bare bones insurance I have so I bought chelated magnesium that my doctor suggested.
He said chelated is the best way to take magnesium. The brand that was best rated & that he suggested is Blue Bonnet.
I've only had t for 2 days so haven't noticed benefit yet but am hopeful. Especially since those horrible SSRI's were making much worse.

Good luck!!

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