Ketamine For Depression? (Page 41)

It was recommended by the members of a separate thread that one be started that directly relates to ketamine and it's use to treat depression.

If anyone besides myself would like to discuss it's use as a treatment for depression, feel free to post your questions, answers and experiences here.

This thread is an offshoot of a related one that discussed a treatment of Scopolamine for depression.

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caiguise, Where did you try ketamine? If it was in Toronto, do you have a contact? I've been researching it's efficacy for several days and came across a 2014 reference to an unnamed doctor at Toronto Western, who has prescribed it. I can't find any other reference. I'd very much like to try it as my MDD has not responded well to any antidepressants, etc, or to ECT. Thanks

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There are many Doctors that do ketamine infusion for $350 to $550 per infusion. Dr Giorgadze in Atlanta is most economical at $350.

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Joseph,

Dr. Jonathan Downar at Toronto Western does not prescribe it any more, his rTMS clinic is taking up any time he has, and he worked out the parameters for ketamine therapy well enough that he figured the other psychiatrists and physicians could handle it. If you have a psychiatrist or physician who deals with your mental health concerns, you probably should get her/him to contact Dr. Downar's office, as they have three files which include the disclosure/waiver, patient info, and prescriber info. Apex Pharmacy by Eglinton Subway Station has handled compounding for capsules, or a liquid to take orally. If you have a physician who is willing to try ketamine therapy in your case, you are welcome to write me back or have the doctor write me here, as a former patient willing to answer their questions. I also have copies of the protocol files. {edited for privacy}. Toronto Western Hospital also has a mood meds clinic, which can advise your doctor about which medication options/combinations they think are the best next options to try. There are other options to try, and these specialists have experience with people who have tried many different classes of antidepressants, possibly exhausting the experience of psychiatrists with a more diverse practice. Hang in there.

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We did ketamine infusions at Georgia Ketamine in Gainesville, GA for 350 per, and had wonderful results! They are super professional, very accommodating and super nice. Beautiful office. We drive 3 hours just to see them!

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thank you for the information - i would like to access the files you mention/offer: how can i acquire these? many thanks.

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Thank you! I did make contact with Dr Downar. I see my psychiatrist early January and will discuss this with him. Did you try oral ketamine? Did it help?

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Joseph,

I was on the oral ketamine protocol for over a year. I tried the nasal squirt thing, and found the results in me tended to vary more. As far as I know, most of his early patients took caplets. I took a liquid because part of my stomach has been removed, and the remainder is less acidic, so a form which is more 'instant release' made sense. It certainly helped. At the starting dose, which I took in his office, within 90min I was able to make eye contact, and felt hope. A slightly higher dose worked wonderfully. The only issue I had (aside from the current problem of having a wonderful psychiatrist who is utterly against trying it again) was that it wore off more quickly that expected. Most people are just fine taking it twice a week. In my case, sometimes the effects lasted 4 days, in others only 2. Be aware that sometimes when it wears off the change can happen quickly. The first time this happens can be scary, but once you know what it is like, the situation is easier to handle. The catch is that ketamine does not fix depression. You will want to work on techniques to bring you out of depression. I felt no urge to take more than prescribed, and nothing happened when I stopped.

OK, there was actually another side effect, but I have no idea why it happened. While I was on the ketamine protocol I wanted to tidy and organize. This was probably a return to 'normal' human behaviour, but I have a high chaos threshold and hadn't felt like that for decades. Research and writing, I'm organized, the rest of my life, not so much.

If you look further in this thread, I have a detailed description of what the effects were like for me. I hope this works for you, and if not, that you keep going until you find something that does work. People who do not get depressed seem not to understand how wonderful it is to feel normal.

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Hey, caiguise. I decided not to pursue oral ketamine for the time being. I'm not convinced that this method would help much. Because of other conditions, I don't qualify for any of the ketamine studies in Ontario. I contacted Princeton about intranasal ketamine and received a response a few days ago. An RN told me that they would be willing to discuss it with my psychiatrist. When I saw him last week we discuss ketamine. He wasn't against my trying it but did say that while research does look promising, it is still early...so, the standard psychiatric response to something new. I see him again in a few weeks and may bring it up again.

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Joseph,

If you are still having trouble with depression, you may want to look into the rTMS studies at CAMH and Toronto Western Hospital. I believe they are enrolling new people.

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Thanks, caiguise. I'm about 2 hours from Toronto so getting there regularly would be an issue, but I am considering it.

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Hi, I am on disability for bipolar. I am 36 and have tried all the medications. None work. Is it possible to get a sample prescription of ketamine powder?

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Hi John. In Canada, one may be able to find a progressive doctor that will prescribe ketamine. I found one in Toronto that did this at one time, but does no longer. He told me that he would, however, provide my doctor with the protocol. It is not approved for the treatment of BP or depression (in either Canada or the States, but it can be used "off label"). In the course of my research I read many accounts of American doctors prescribing it, in several states. You'll have to do some calling in order to find someone. Good luck.

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I have been trying to get into a ketamine research study with no luck.i suffer from Major depression and p.t.s.d. my Dr.tells me she would not sign on for the study.i found a Dr. Whom would accept me although they asked $3.000 upfront as my insurance will not cover it.my Dr.tells me she has had problems with ketamine because it may cause severe psychosis and need to be treated with strong benzodiazopines.i am open to research studies still.i want to live life to it's fullest,feel happy.i am stuck in a very dark feeling.my prozac was increased to it's highest milligram.feels like I am not taking anything.no positive traction.i live in the Hartford,CT.area.my travel ability is limited as my car was stolen.so I must keep trying.i am.it's hard.i am so depressed that years roll out of my eyes spontaneously.

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Hey Robert. I'm sorry to hear that you are struggling. I've done a great deal of research on ketamine. I have found the the price for transfusions varies quite a bit in the US (no doctors in Canada will do this). How many transfusions came with the $3,000? My research tells me that there isn't a significant risk, despite what your previous doctor told you. There are always risks to any medical treatment, but do a lot of online research and make up your own mind.

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John,

I suspect ketamine would not be appropriate for your situation. It is a temporary fix (not cure) for depression, and I don't know what the risks are if you have hypermanic periods. Part of this may be lack of existing research (or that I just have not read enough), but I suspect doctors would be concerned that it might either trigger manic episodes, not work at all, or work in ways which might differ between people who only get depressed periods, and those who get both depressed and manic ones. You mentioned powdered forms and sample/testing situations. Be careful, the medical treatments tend to be either IV drips, compounded capsules, liquids, or liquids delivered nasally. There are probably reasons why powers are not used, including problems with keeping the dosage controlled, and ensuring the correct amount enters your body. It should go without saying, but on the off chance that (frustrated with your situation) you might be considering alternative sources to pharmacies, this is not a good idea. Aside from legal issues, getting ketamine from any source other than a pharmacy (preferably one with specialty compounding experience) is dangerous. You would not know how much or little to take, and cannot be sure exactly what someone is selling. I know how frustrating it is, when the way you feel is extreme (admittedly I only know the depression side), but stay safe and hang in there. You can search medline, to see if there are publications relating to ketamine therapy for people with manic-depression.

Best wishes, and may you soon feel 'meh' (not sure how to describe 'normal,' but know I mean feeling a rage of emotions, but nothing extreme, and ranging in ways appropriate to things happening outside you). Hang in there.

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Robert,

Have you talked to your doctor about augmentation strategies (if the Prozac did have some effect) or switching to an antidepressant from another category? It can be hard to convince your doctor to try you on ketamine. I was on it for a year, with good results, but my psychiatrist worries that some of the hyperparathyroid symptoms I had for a while (not while taking ketamine, or soon thereafter) could have been ketamine induced. That they went away when 2 parathyroid glands were removed did not change his mind. He is a fantastic psychiatrist, and has helped me greatly, but right now I m in a position where only two treatments in 25+ years of trying things have worked well and without ridiculous side effects. rTMS works wonderfully, but OHIP is still not covering it, and I lose access in 2 wees, and the other is ketamine, which I cannot take because it causes severe anxiety... in my psychiatrist.

You might want to look at the literature on ketamine and neuroplasticity, especially that it seems to undo some of the damage to neurons of long-term stress. I don't know enough about PTSD, but there may be literature relating to ketamine treatment for that condition. It might be something which benefits from short term treatment (ketamine therapy two or three times). If the research is there, it might help you approach a doctor, but remember that for most people (including physicians) ketamine is a dangerous club drug. If you find a doctor willing to try it for you, do consider capsules of an oral liquid. The cost is more likely to be $100 than $3000 for infusions, and when you don't even know if it will work for you I'd stick with the lower priced option. Also, I'd check out the literature on ketamine induced psychoses, so you can talk to your doctor if the research either does not apply to you, or is seriously flawed. I do not know why benzodiazepines would be used if that happened, but have been told that ketamine therapy can make your body 'naive' to painkillers. So if you have built up a tolerance to painkillers, be careful after ketamine therapy because the tolerance may be gone, and the high dose you needed to take before may now be as dangerous as it would have been the first time you took the med.

Hang in there. Even if ketamine therapy does not pan out, there are other treatments to try. Best Wishes.

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hello i am on disability for bipolar ive been on disability for 15 years my name is john

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Hi Jojn,

I'm not sure how you came to this page. I admire your strength for keeping going and trying to find new solutions. Ketamine therapy, from what I've read, doesn't tend to get used much for manic-depression. Feel free to read the posts here, and you will get an idea of the ways it has worked, or not worked, for different people. There are also ways to read either the summaries or more complete research reports at PubMed. Be well.

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hello my name is johnny dimitropoulos ive been on disability for 15 years ive tried all the medacations none have worked ive tried 15 electric shocks i have lost memorizes i cant even remember that has erased parts of my mind i cant even remember.all my freinds have family wifes kids home cars and ive lost trust with all my friends.they give me 700.00 dollars that cant even pay the bills for an a apartment for my self let alone familyi love anamls like cows chickes shep that would make me happy im not looking for fame or fortunei i just want a farm i can live my life with my family i dont want to leave my farm id love to be there rest of my life i dont like being around other people so when i have to go grocery shopping i have i have to use my moms car because i cant even afford a car or gas and repars we have three people and only have one car we use my mothers car and i go at night so i dont have to be around other people my dad is 77 works at myeirs my sister got in a bad accident she has been in a wheel chair for 3 years.we cant even afford to pay her bills there is so much stress here i dont know how much more i can take it we cant even pay for or house bills or her medications my mom is 76 and cant work anymore but take care of my sister who has been in a wheel chair for 3 years she stays in her room for hours at a time somtimes never coming out but to go to the bathroom and my mom cooks and brings here food she stays in her room for weeks at a time not coming out i know my mom would lose it if i was gone but i dont know how much more i can take t much mort know my mom would go crazy if anything happend to me when my mom life goeswont be able to live anymore when she goes i will also find a way to go with her we dont even have the money to pay for the bills all id love would love to have is a family and kids so i can live like everyone else with 700.00 dollars i cant even get a apartment let alone pay for a car bills and all the rest of the bills of a house i never asked anyone for anyhing i just want to live on a farm with a family with and kids if anyone can help please do this is the first time i have ever asked for anything

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What size were the pieces of LDN cut into? I've been having the pills liquiquified at a compounding pharmacy. Tastes terrible. Would love to use it by just swallowing a pill. Thanks.

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