Ketamine For Depression? (Page 24)

It was recommended by the members of a separate thread that one be started that directly relates to ketamine and it's use to treat depression.

If anyone besides myself would like to discuss it's use as a treatment for depression, feel free to post your questions, answers and experiences here.

This thread is an offshoot of a related one that discussed a treatment of Scopolamine for depression.

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Yes I will ask him about scopolamine (I will write it down on a piece of paper right now). I will post his answer as soon as I can clearly think when I come home. I am sorry ketamine didn't work for you. This illness is so horrible. I wouldn't wish it on even my enemy. Don't give up the fight, hang in there and you never know something may work for you soon. All the best.

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Hi I just got a little energy to respond to your question regarding scopolamine. I had a total of 3 ketamine infusions with increasing dosage each time and am disappointed to tell everyone it unfortunately did not work for me. Dr. Brooks said to continue would be a waste of money for me since I should have seen an increase in mood already. So, regarding scopolamine, unfortunately there is no good news (at least not from Dr. Brooks). He said he tried it one half a dozen patients with no success rate whatsoever. Sorry I couldn't give you better news but don't give up hope(as your username already says). There will be a strike one of these days.
Best of luck!:)

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I'm SO sorry to hear that ketamine didn't work for you either! And that's disappointing news about the scopolamine. Nevertheless, ketamine came out of the blue, so something else could suddenly appear on the horizon. In the meantime, let's both keep living day to day and doing our best to recognize the positive things in our lives. For myself, one of the things I do is plan little trips to someplace relaxing. It gives me something to look forward to, and that helps.

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I have been a patient of Brooks in the past year , I have had both Ketamine and Sccoplaniue , A year ago the ketamine worked after 2 treatments , my life was better , money in my pocket and I had outlets within the last month and have 3 treatments of ketamine and it did not work , i must say I was looking forward top it but it did not work , mostly due to the circumstances That I am living under mostly stress , There is something called Dueexta I am not spelling it correctly but brooks uses it as a ketamine extender. He never told me about it , but I think it's worth tring to build up in the system . like any other med , I will try and find out more about the drug but it was created to cure the diease PAL

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Ketamine treats depression. My stepfather has suffered from PTSD and Bipolar disorder most of his life and Ketamine is the only medication that has brought significant relief to him. When he started the IV treatments, he began weening off some of his prescribed drugs and now he is doing better than ever. He is noticeably happier, more energetic, and has lost weight after stopping his other medications. Ketamine has not only saved his life but it has helped the family be whole again.

I found this page to be helpful and interesting: depressionrecoverycenters.com/why-are-you-still-depressed-4

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I'm looking for a neuro/pdoc who has prescribed Intranasal Ketamine for depression in New York City. Dr. Brooks & Dr. Fruitman offer infusions mostly and are costly, since I plan to have continuous IN treatment.

Any recommendations for doctors I could try in my area.

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@Amber Try checking the map from "Ketamine Advocacy Network".

It lists where doctors are and what treatments they perform. Obviously if anyone knows of more doctors, add them please

R.K. Brumbelow
The Muscadine Foundation for Medical Assistance

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@RKBrumbelow

Thanks, I will forward info to the site on Dr. Fruitman. So far, only Dr. Brooks is listed for the NYC area.

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go with Brooks stay away from fruitman he's a crook Brooks has got a lot more knowledge of depressiongalso he has something call Nuedexta it's a medication used for something else but he uses it as a ketamine extender I've had treatments with him in the past some of work some has workedsam hasn't

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Hello;
I am a fellow TRMMD sufferer of many decades (no alcohol/drug issues) who has tried most all anti-depressant meds; some for yr's at a time, other ones over&over again just to please each new Dr who wonder if you gave the meds a fair trial. Plus Numerous costly therapies, all to no avail. My depression has never lifted.

After enduring a lifetime of this torture which was made even more painful by incompetent medical care and the S/E's from useless, expensive prescriptions I stopped all AD meds & Dr's a couple of years ago and that has been a hugh relief.

At the end of that last pointless, frustrating, humilitating Dr's appt two yrs ago I simply couldn't reach out to take the 'next month's appt' card from my Dr's outstretched hand. Irritated, she looked up from her laptop and made eye contact w/ me for the first time in years. Softly, using her first name I said "no ___".

Walking out I felt freedom from the false hope and pride in myself for stopping the mockery.

I always was a respectful, obedient, compliant (and often tearful) patient over the years...I'm severely depressed after all...however this last MD expressed little compassion and even less knowledge about depression. She suggested I light a scented candle when I confessed to feeling suicidal. Like so many other's who are not afflicted she just didn't get it.

Started in my youth on this painful journey and am now an old person. My final elderly parent recently passed away freeing me to end my own suffering so while researching humane methods I realize there is one stone left unturned, Ketamine.

Been told by an expert far from my home that the older you are & the longer you have experienced depression the less likely you are to respond to Ketamine.
Any older people w/ experience care to share their outcome?

Thank You and wish you all vitality! maydaymayday

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@maydaymayday Ketamine has an excellent track record for refractory cases. Because of the NMDA mechanism it affects, added to a refractory case (what you refer to as TRMMD, refractory is the better term) the likelihood of Ketamine working increases. Not because of age or duration of symptoms though, but due to the refractory nature.

You see there are currently seen 8 different causes of depression. If SSRI / SNRIs are not working that eliminates one cause(neurotransmitter deficit). Likely you have had hormone tests, eliminating another (endocrine related). Duration eliminates still another (emotional), so we are down to 5 remaining and Ketamine affects 3-4 of those 5, potentially reversing 1-2 of them and positively affecting the other 2.

In fact the only other one [cause] (and it is early morning on the East coast so I might be forgetting something) that it does not affect is inflammation, so if you get no relief at all from ketamine that would be the next avenue to try with something like low dose naltrexone.

Oh yeah depending on your genetics a failure of SSRI / SNRI treatment could be due metabolic issues masking the drug and never allowing them to work, but that is less likely if you have tried and failed several meds. Keller would be mad if I did not mention the CYP450 issue which causes the metabolic defect.

- RKBrumbelow
Muscadine Foundation for Medical Assistance

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Dear mayday,
I too have tried many meds, including ketamine, over the years. Although apparently it has been a wonder drug for many, it did nothing for me. However, I have not suffered any debilitating depressions in the last several months. (And I got divorced in December, having thought that my marriage would last forever, so I have plenty to still be depressed about). Anyway, 2 things have changed during that time. One is that I have used the Fisher-Wallace stimulator 2x/day without fail every day. Two is that I've completely eliminated meat and dairy from my diet (I did this for animal welfare reasons after seeing a video on factory farming, but regardless, there are tons of antibiotics, hormones, GMOs, and even feces in many of today's factory-farmed meat and dairy products. So, which of these 2 changes has had an effect on my depression? I don't know. And perhaps tomorrow a new wave of depression could hit....but for now, and for the past several months, that hasn't happened. Yes, I am still on my meds (Emsam, Klonopin, Lamictal, Deplin), but in the past, these things weren't enough to prevent falling into a deep, dark hole of despair. I'll let you decide if either or both of these options might be worth a try. The stimulator was $600 (but I used my HSA to pay for it) and has a money back guarantee. I ordered it figuring what the heck; I've tried everything else. Anyway, I wish the best for you. FYI, the doctor who gave me Ketamine said it tends to work better on women than men

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@stillhopefull Have you tried an anti-inflammatory regimen like low-dose naltrexone? I know it was mentioned to you back in January.
Have you tried eliminating aspartame and glutamic acid from your diet?
And have you tried Magnesium Taurate (500mg daily)?

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Hi Rk, Thanks for the message. No, I haven't tried naltrexone. Perhaps I should mention it to my doc. I do drink diet iced tea with aspartame. Don't know much about glutamic acid. And I take magnesium, but it's magnesium oxide (500 mg)

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@stillhopefull Magnesium oxide is just magnesium rust and our stomach acid just doesn't have the oomph to make it bioavailable. In other words what you take in orally well it goes out he other side with no good to you.

Nancy Saibjen is a doctor in San Diego who has an interesting article on it:
painsandiego.com/2012/06/10/depression-ketamine-glia-and-inflammation

It fits with the inflammation model of Depression, so since the SSRI/SNRI (standard antidepressant drugs) model did not work for you and the NMDA (ketamine) model did not work for you, we know that you are refractory so the emotional model does not fit. Presumably you have had your hormones checked, so we can scratch that off. That starts to leave just the Glutamate model, Enzymatic (CYP450) Nutritional and Inflammation models.

Naltrexone works on a few of these, but I would defiantly cut out aspartame and glutamates from your diet. Aspartame is converted to Aspartic Acid which is then converted to glutamic acid then Glutamate and people with depression can have a surplus of glutamate. So, I would cut out Aspartame and glutamate completely and give it a few weeks to see how you are doing and in the mean time see if your PDoc or Psychiatrist will prescribe Low Dose Naltrexone. They will need to decide if you need 3mg or 4.5 mg daily. Of course if neither of them work then we can talk about the other models.

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The working better on women might be because most traditional antidepressants are tested mainly on men (or to use the legally approved non-sexist term, non-pregnable persons). Also women tend to get depression concurrently with anxiety and the ketamine, from my experience, helps with both.

I wanted to let you all know, since I appear to be the only person on sublingual ketamine in liquid form, that it works (although a smaller proportion is bioavailable) is far less expensive (150mg every second day is between $60and $100 dollars for a two month supply so approximately 1 year supply is the same price as 1-2 infusion treatments), and can be taken at home after the first few times. From what I've read here the duration of effectiveness is shorter, but most of my doctor's patients are taking it twice week. The catch is that, if possible you want the doctor/pharmacy to use the solution that the hospitals get, rather than have it compounded. I refilled my prescription a week and a half ago and it was seriously undereffective. Went slowly downhill for 5 days then on day six went from relatively normal mood to full depression in 2 hours. Argh that sucks. It makes you really notice the relation between depression and pain sensitivity, lack of taste in foods, changes in social behaviour, apathy, dulled thinking, sleep patterns, and all the other delightful aspects. I've had good results for over 6 months. Apparently the temperature used when making the suspension is important, and suspensions often do not completely dissolve the powder so the actual dose you take in can vary substantially. My new bottle appears to have been misprepared and underpowered. I will probably be switching to the solution the hospitals use (presumably at a lower dose). It will be more predictable, and comes at 50mg per ml, which is what the compounding pharmacy was making anyhow.

Anyway, best wishes to you all. For those of you considering trying this treatment know that the immediate wierdness wears off quickly (an hour or two), and that you may (or may not) have the depression come back suddenly if your dosage schedule is too far apart. Bear with it and let your physician figure out what works well for you.

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Thanks RK. So aspartame is "Equal", so what about sweet n low or splenda? Are they ok from a depression standpoint? And I just looked up glutamate - oatmeal and peanut butter and soy are staples of my vegan diet. Yet in giving up meat and dairy, it sounds like I already tremendously decreased my glutamate (I was a cheese fiend). I wonder if that has something to do with the fact that I'm feeling better these days. I can easily quit the aspartame. Quitting the glutamate will be quite difficult. I need to come up with some alternatives to my top 3 foods - and I just added soy protein to my diet to make sure I'm taking in enough protein! I see my doc next week; I'll ask about the naltrexone. I wanted to talk to him about slowly trying to get off the lamictal, and if I'm still ok, then slowly getting off the emsam. I can't sleep without the klonopin,so that would be the last thing to try to stop. It would be a huge victory if I could. I've been on meds for at least 20 years

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@stillhopefull Right Aspartame is Equal and NutraSweet.

Splenda, Stevia, sacharine, sucralose etc do not become glutamate so under the glutamate model they pose no problems. Not to say that every sweetener doesn't have some drawback, but we are just talking about one model of depression.

Your body will always produce its own supply of glutamate, it is a non-essential amino acid after all, but IF you are one of the many with an over production/intake of it then any area you can cut back in will help. If you are not, well that just means you do not fit the glutamate model.

I do not want to shill products here, but let me also encourage you to try Magnesium Taurate. You can get a months supply for $40 or so and for those it helps, it works tremendously well.

Remember almost all the models simply function as stand-ins for deeper processes. To the best of my knowledge, it is entirely possible to fit more than one model so if you get some relief, don't be afraid to keep trying others till you are back to normal, or at least as good as you can be.

Maybe one day we will be able to instantly diagnose and correct depression and anxiety, we can all still be hopefull ;)

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RK, just curious. where do you get your mag taur? I see 400mg mostly and then a whopping 2500 mg from vitacost...but many of the 400s include other types of mag as well

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@stillhopefull

I have it because we are creating a drink based on it to fund Muscadine, so I literally buy it in 25kg lots.

As I said, I don't want to shill, but if you were to add {edited for privacy}

I already feel a bit to close to violating rule 4: (4) We do not allow our forums to be used for buying, selling, or for the promotion of a product or service.

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