Ketamine For Depression? (Page 18) (Top voted first)

It was recommended by the members of a separate thread that one be started that directly relates to ketamine and it's use to treat depression.

If anyone besides myself would like to discuss it's use as a treatment for depression, feel free to post your questions, answers and experiences here.

This thread is an offshoot of a related one that discussed a treatment of Scopolamine for depression.

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Has anyone tried Namenda (aka memantine), which is a NMDA receptor antagonist for depression/anxiety? - it is an FDA-approved drug for Alzheimer's BUT it is also being used off-label, apparently quite successfully, for depression, anxiety, and migraines. Please note it is in the same drug class as ketamine (NMDA receptor antagonist) and similar to GLYX-13 (which is a partial agonist of the NMDA receptor). Because I suffer from chronic migraines (as well as depression/anxiety) I asked my psych and my neuro about it. Apparently it doesn't have the bad side effects of ketamine (UNLESS you take too much!!), and of course is an APPROVED drug, unlike GLYX-13. I am thinking about trying it if the my latest regimen doesn't help or (what usually happens) makes the migraines worse. (Most SSRIs and SNRIs are migraine triggers for me which is why I got interested in ketamine, but it didn't help AT ALL with anything, please see my previous posts). I am currently trying lithium 450mgs (small-ish doses are recommended for migraineurs) and I do feel better, but it's only been 2.5 weeks. Other meds I'm on are seroquel XR, Latuda, ambien CR, klonopin, and imitrex. Yes, like everyone else here I have high hopes for GLYX-13 and am watching it like a hawk tho I was excluded from the current study because of the other meds I'm on.

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Please send me any URL's you come across on GLYX-13. I will go through them. I
want to know its real name. I tried Ketamine, that is why I would like to hear people"s experiences? After 4 Years of horrific MDD they put me back on PARNATE, WHICH STARTED ABOUT 3 WEEKS ago, it TURNED INTO
A DEXEDRINE -TYPE EXPERIENCE, I HAVE READ IT DOES THIS. (Scholarly articles and studies ONLY). I VERIFIED IT. I now have NO meds and no hope. It is a known fact that you have to full recovery on a medication, because the next time there is only a 65% it will work, and then ever decreasing concentric circles. I have nothing left to try, (LA here, with Emperor / Gurus's with no clothes on) only Klonopin and Seroquel for sleep. No idea what to do next???? I said I would never go through this hell again, And here I am...with what to hope for... ?
What ever did happen to the Hippocratic Oath? I have never see it in use in anyone's Blog? I have 3rd stage Breast Ca and multiple medical side effect. Which have turned into diseases, I am not eligible for trials and they have NOTHING LEFT TO TRY? You would think people like me would be great to test.....no.

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the "Real (IUPAC) name of Glyx-13 is: (S)-N-[(2S,3R)-1-amino-3-hydroxy-1-oxobutan-2-yl]-1-[(S)-1-((2S,3R)-2-amino-3-hydroxybutanoyl)pyrrolidine-2-carbonyl]pyrrolidine-2-carboxamide

Have you tried provigil, maois, tricyclics ect, and tms? I ask because quite frankly 4 years is a short time assuming you go on a med for 6 months to try it that only leaves you 24 meds you have gone through.

I am going on my 28th year of refractory MDD and 24 years of Agoraphobia w/ panic. You can make it just keep trying.

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BlueheelerCD, I am so sorry to read about your breast cancer, obviously you are in a tough spot, but it really sounds like you could use a better/different psychiatrist. If you are in the Chicago area I know a great one - Dr. David McNeil, 847-291-8810. I can't imagine parnate is the only option for you; I agree with Keller there are hundreds of options out there. Good luck and keep posting!

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Hi,

I cam across this site via a search for ketamine and depression. I was looking for people who have tried it for this reason. I won't get too detailed about myself, but I wanted to post my experience.

First off... I'm 33 now, male if it matters. Have had major depression/anxiety for all my teen and adult years. When I first got drunk as a teenager I swore it was a miracle cure. My point I guess is that GABAergic drugs/substances are what afect and help me the most. I have been on clonazepam and the MAOI Nardil for some years now with the most success of anything I've ever been on. Paxil offered me some for a while but it wasn't the same. Nardil is an MAOI but it also works via GABA which makes it unique and good for anxiety and/social anxiety/agorophobia, etc.

When I was in my late teens or early twenties (memory isn't great), I decided to pick up some ketamine in Mexico while I was down there to try for kicks. I was drinking when I tried it. Intramuscular injection, 100% veterinary ketamine HCL 10ml. Don't remember the dose or subsequent use after the first time, but I do remember having a strange but pleasant psychedelic experience and feeling very carefree/happy, and even laughing at someone who at the time wanted to kick my ass. Point being that I was not inhibited or self-conscience. Of course alcohol was involved so... (?) I was on Paxil only at the time as well.

Fast forward and now I'm 32 (last winter maybe November?). I type in "depression breakthrough" or something similar into the search engine and to my surprise and dismay I see ketamine and the articles and studies I'm sure you all have. I'm 30 min. away from the border feeling pretty damn down because my current meds keep me afloat but nowhere near where I would like to be. I know exactly where to get it so I hop in my car and head down to Mexico.

Long story short I have a love/hate relationship with ketamine which I currently disclosed to my Psychiatrist who didn't seem concerned although he wasn't familiar with its use in psychiatry. He trusts that I educate myself well and know my medications, physiology etc. and that I am honest. He suggested I might look for a similar program at a University or elsewhere to get it because he just didn't have experience or know enough about it.

The reason I was discussing this with him was that I have/had developed a ketamine abuse pattern since it is so highly psychologically addictive for me, and when it is on my person I just tend to do more and more until I get completely disgusted and concerned with my behavior, the damage I may be doing cognitively, the lack of functioning during the administration of it and for hours afterward, the cost, etc.

I have purchased maybe 5-6 10ml 100mg/ml bottles since November. Each time I administer 1 shot between 50-150 mg and when it wears off I figure, 'why not one more'?. I have a very compulsive and addictive disposition so this happens with everything from ice cream to cigarettes to sex. I know that ketamine is not physically addictive or dependency causing even in the relatively high doses I use it in. So each time after doing consecutive doses of 50-250mg and having initially positive, insightful, but intense and what could be considered frightening if I wasn't experienced with hallucinogenics in my earlier years, and sometimes even though I am depending on dose and the frame of mind beforehand.

I need to cut this shot because I tend to ramble on, but ketamine does seem to work very well for my depression and I enjoy the experience for the most part even at the out of body level where I as my name or ego cease to even exist. All that is left is "my" consciousness witnessing what can be the most intense and seeming insightful in a way- experience one could have. The reason it isn't terrifying is because again... "I" am not there. Ketamine shuts down areas of the brain having to do with emotion so fear is not an accurate word. It also shuts down the areas which your sense of self is stored. I can still remember my name, or "the" name at the time, but it is very impersonal and irrelevant at the time. Best I can describe a strong "k-hole" experience of the borderline anesthetic levels of up to 300mg.

So I cannot have ketamine on my person and have dumped it out swearing against it now or used it up quickly as to get rid of it and over with each time. When discussing this with my Dr. it was obvious to both of us that it was a potentially great medication for me, which warranted trying further but my lack of self-control and addictive tendencies make it impossible to have on my person in that amount and at such a cheap price for me. When I see what you guys pay out of desperation I can relate to I just cringe. The Dr.s are not your friend no matter how "nice" they may be. Meaning that they may have good intentions and be caring but their main concern is money, and ridiculous amounts of it.

Minus the cost of gas to drive to Mexico, I get 1000mg of ketamine for $40. That is 100% pure in the vial with manufacturer date, stamp, everything. I would never use street ketamine which is often cut with other stuff. I'm not a recreational drug user anyway.

So my plan this time as I get ready to drive 4 hours to Mexico (for the 6th time from where I now live since moving from San Diego in January) is to divide the ketamine up into weekly doses which I will then give to a trusted relative and instruct them to mail to me on a weekly basis; essentially mailing ketamine to myself in depression level doses so I can actually use it for the purpose I intended before I have a Costco sized supply on my hands with only myself to answer to and repeat the same thing again and expecting a different outcome. That was an old definition of "insanity".

I hope this helps somebody and I will try to get back to answer any questions or whatever but just wanted to post this partly as a way to hold myself accountable to my plan and typing it out to others in this forum is the best place I could think of to do it.

I'd like to mention that once I throw away or discontinue the ketamine after 1-4 days of frequent use I have to rinse out the bottle and syringes because I do have a very strong craving for more but it isn't a physical craving and I don't experience a physical withdrawal at all. I return to my everyday level of function after a day and then my functioning, attitude and level of well-being are increased for the following week or so. After a week of accepting that it is gone and I will move on now (getting over it), I will get a craving to get more. I suspect this may be because the AD effect is ending combined with my previous pattern of getting it on the weekend and looking forward to the trip etc.

Ok... That's it for now, but I will try to report back on my progress and answer any replies. I need to make sure to plan ahead and I will be fine. I know that without ketamine my regular level of depression and anxiety just returns and I can live without it. The cost, and potential for me are why I have no given up yet.

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HI, I THINK YOU ARE REALLY ONTO SOMETHING MAJOR BUT NEED GOOD MEDICAL ADVIVE AND CONTROL. THE GLUTAMATE SYSTEM MAY BE YOUR KEY TO HEALTH. I'M GOING TO ASK ONE MEMBER WHO HAS BEEN HELPED TO GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU. I HAVE NEVER SEEN MULTIPLE MAOS
USED AT ONCE AND THERE CAN BE A LOT OF DANGEROUS SIDE EFFECTS.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE USING KETAMINE IN CA., SO BE CAREFUL AND FIND A REPUTABLE ONE. A THERAPEUTIC DOSE IS .5MG/KG OF BODY WEIGHT. ADMINISTERED NI IV INFUSION. I HOPE YOU GET GOOD PROFESSIONAL HELP AND A GOOD REGIME AND GET BETTER. IT IS POSSIBLE. GOOD LUCK.

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sorry for confusing communication. it has been 14 years and no stone left unturned.
if anyone can recommend an expert on TRD, near Los angeles, i would really appreciate it! i do not know what is left that is possible, and my pain threshold is full.

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How do you administer the Ketamine, IM or IV ? I tried it doing it IM, but did not get the results that I got when I had it IV in a Clinical trial. I too, found that AD effects wore off after a week during the clinical trial. I live in Illinois and NO ONE except frikken rip-off quack is doing it. Can you give more info on what they are doing in Cali? Infusions, nasal spray, IM? Appreciate the info.

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Hi Paula,
I did 3 IV 0,5mg/kg infusions (one every other day) in NYC, by Dr Brooks.
It worked well but the effect vanished in 2 days after the last infusion. In my case the effect last for about 48h, after that you need to redo another infusion. As they are expansive as 400$ each, there is no way to continue this therapy.

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@BLUEHEELERCD- when I was asking about the ketamine treatments in Cali, I was addressing your posting. Can you tell me more about the cost, the methods of administration, etc? Thanks.

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To-paula-this is extra confusing because my name is paula too!!
I am in Los Angeles, and you? I do not have any good, honest advice for anyone here. Just scams.
But I have run out of help and am desperately looking for am Md. who has a long standing reputation for treating TRD. I cannot find anyone and was hoping you might have worked with a knowledgeable Md. and liked, even though he did not give IV Ketamine Infusions, OFF LABEL. Reputable Md;s will not. Please stay in touch. Maybe you can put me in touch with someone else? Thanks!

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@Paula, Nancy Sajben MD is how I found this forum. She is a bit far for me though as I am on the east coast, not the west.

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@ KELLER, HAVE YOU SEEN HER? IS SHE YOUR PSYCHO-PHARMAGOLOGIST? IS SHE MANAGING YOUR MEDS? DO YOU KNOW WHAT HER TRACK RECORD IS? COMPLETE REMISSION?
IS SHE CHARGING HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY FOR THE CHEAPEST DRUG ON THE PLANET? SORRY, I AM PRETTY UPSET ABOUT THE MENTAL ILNESS POPULATION WITH THE LARGEST RATE OF SUICIDE BEING TAKEN FOR GRANTED. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SEEING HER AND HOW OFTEN? DO YOU HAVE A MAINTENANCE TIME AND DOSE? I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY CONCRETE INFO. THANKS!

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Yes, I have been on this forum for over a year and have heard of that doc. I am just curious how prevalent the K infusions are in Cali and what kind of cost we are talking about.

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I HAVE HEARD OF ANYWHERE FROM $600.00 TO $1200.00 /, PER INFUSION!!!
YOU NEED A MINIMUM OF 2 PER WEEK IN THE BEGINNING, BUT NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING MORE THAN THAT. I AM IN TOUCH WITH SEVERAL RESEARCHERS. THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY REAL PROTOCOL. IT IS ALL TRIALS. I THINK IT WAS JUST THE KEY THAT OPENED THE DOOR TO THE GLUTAMATE SYSTEM AS YET ANOTHER POSSIBLE AREA THAT GOES ASTRAY, CAUSING DEPRESSION. BUT IT COULD LEAD TO OTHER EXISTING MEDS THAT ACT SIMILARLY. NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE. NAMENDA ACTS ON THAT SYSTEM. THERE IS SO MUCH TO KNOW AND THEY KNOW SO LITTLE. IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A WHOLE NEW DRUG, IT COULD BE 10 TO 15 YEARS. AT LEAST NOTHING THAT ALREADY EXISTS IS A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE. I WROTE TO THE ORGANIZATION THAT RUNS MEDS.CHAT, ABOUT FINDING LEGITIMATE DOCTORS, BECAUSE THEY ARE RIGHT HERE. I'M GOING TO EXHAUST NIMHI NEXT. THE UPSETTING THING I SEE HERE IS PEOPLE TAKING SO MANY MEDS WITH NO ONE REALLY SCRUTINIZING WHAT CONFLICTS WITH WHAT? IT ALL SEEMS COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTROL. THERE IS ONE MD I HAPPENED UPON, DEPENDING ON YOUR INSURANCE, WHO IS MORE THEN REASONABLE. HE ADMINISTRATES IT IM AND HAS BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS. I AM NOT SURE, I THINK PRIMARILY FOR ANXIETY. BUT THERE IS NO REAL PROTOCOL, FOR DEPRESSION. HE SEEMED LIKE A CARING MD, BUT THERE NEEDS TO BE A MASTER PLAN. HAVE YOU TRIED IT AT ALL? IT SEEMS PEOPLE ARE ONLY BEGINNING TO WRITE ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE? I AM SEEING DOCTOR'S NAMES DROPPED FROM THE LIST, THERE ACTUALLY IS ONE, A LIS, FROM BACK IN JUNE? THIS IS BEYOND THE USUAL SCOPE OF USING A MEDICATION, ESPECIALLY ONE SO CONTROLLED, OFF LABEL. WHY ARE WE NO LONGER ABLE TO MAKE PERSONAL REPLIES? HOPE SOMETHING OF THIS HELPS...

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@ Blueheelercd I cannot even read your posts. My computer trys to sound out every letter one by one because you have posted in all caps.

In other news I have found a Doctor in Atlanta who is going to have me come in for a consult next week for possible treatment. I am hoping to go the nasal Ketamine route, but am open and available to other possibilities.

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@ keller, sorry i do not know how to convert it to lower case? nasal ketamine has proved to not have enough bio-availability. I have read and heard from multiple sources it is a waste of time. check out glyx-13. it's even available on the internet and safe with none of ketamine's side effects. good luck!

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@Catpower & Everyone & Keller GLYX-13 is coming fast. Last week it was in to MAJOR medicaL journals. Tons of articles on the internet. Plus available on the intenet. MUCH safer than Ketamine!!!! It is going into 3rd stage trials going into 4 & 5.
Keller says the name is the "Real (IUPAC) name of Glyx-13 is: (S)-N-[(2S,3R)-1-amino-3-hydroxy-1-oxobutan-2-yl]-1-[(S)-1-((2S,3R)-2-amino-3-hydroxybutanoyl)pyrrolidine-2-carbonyl]pyrrolidine-2-carboxamide

It is not a drug. It is not controlled. It works along the same pathway as ketamine without the side effects.
There are trials on NIMHI and articles.

Let's put our heads together and find out a safe place to get it and dosage & price!!!!!

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@Blueheelercd I can guarantee you that Glyx13 is still over a decade away. It is not listed ont he controlled substances lists yet, but it will be and it is a patented chemical which means the price will be astronomical to start with. Glyx13 is presently in Stage 2 trials and will be moving into stage 3 trials (stage 4 is wide adoption and ongoing manufacturing, there is no stage 5) Stage 3 trials will last another decade to see what the long term effects are.

As for Nasal Ketamine, I am uncertain where you get your information. Nasal Ketamine is already in stage 2 trial and limited off label usage for people who cannot take repeated IV applications (mostly children) While it is true that nasal delivery of ketamine is not as efficient at IV delivery, it is also more regular and much less expensive as the major cost of IV ketamine is paying an anesthesiologist to administer the medication. As you have mentioned before Ketamine itself is cheap.

It should also be mentioned that ketamine will likely never get full permission for use as an antidepressant/ anti anxiolytic simply because its abuse potential is so high and the street value is so high. So why are locations testing it, because the mechanism is novel and drugs like Glyx13 need a baseline. Glyx13 or its cousins are the way the product will develop, but I am in a degenerative condition now, anything I can do to stage off that degeneration is worth investigating.

As for myself and Glyx13, I am excluded from the trials as I have a 2nd Axis 1 diagnosis. I would have preferred Glyx 13 as a trial, but since I have not been symptom free for 2 months in the last 6 years (a requirement for Ketamine trials) and have more than 1 axis 1 diagnosis (an exclusion for Glyx 13) I am sol in both of them. I have a person in the trials who has said as soon as they change the exclusion issue (which may happen soon) She will call me.

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@catpower I have never heard of Namenda but in researching options this past week did find some information on another existing NMDA receptor antagonist called Riluzole. Apparently its main use is for ALS, but it's been shown recently to be effective for treatment resistant depression. A search on clinicaltrials.gov turned up a couple active trials: clinicaltrials.gov/riluzole+depression&rank=1, clinicaltrials.gov/riluzole+depression&rank=2. There's also one for Bipolar, and one using ketamine plus riluzole for maintenance. Not a lot of locations for the studies, but as it's already an approved drug it shouldn't be impossible to just get it prescribed.

Kind of unrelated, but I'm feeling infinitely more hopeful about these types of drugs since my research turned up the fact that Tramadol is partially an NMDA-R antagonist as well. I obviously don't recommend Tramadol itself to anyone because of its potential for abuse, but I can say that for a brief time I was self medicating with 25 mg of Tramadol a day (quite a small dose) because it had a distinct anti-anxiety and antidepressant effect. I'm not talking about being high - consistent use at that dose just once a day is not really enough to have that effect, but just a slight feeling of well-being which I hadn't experienced in a long time. Of course, the effect wore off after 8-12 hrs and it had side effects (loss of appetite, some insomnia, nausea if taken on an empty stomach), etc. Apparently it's not a powerful NMDA-R antagonist, so this makes me even more hopeful that another drug may prove even more effective, and without the potential for abuse. I'm pretty certain that its benefit for me was not due to its Serotonin-related effects because SSRIs or SNRIs have never helped me before.

@Keller I felt the same way when I discovered this thread, too.

@Andy Another option never hurts. It doesn't seem like anyone on here has actually seen Dr. Fanelli, and Dr. Best sounds horrible, so a first-hand referral to someone would certainly be appreciated. Even if your guy doesn't administer Ketamine he sounds pretty enlightened. I'm pretty cautious of most Dr's administering Ketamine after reading the stories here, to be honest.

On that note, does anyone know how to get the administrator(s) to allow people to contact you off-thread? I saw that discussed a few pages back but have no idea how to do it!

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