How To Get Off Suboxone (Page 14)

Im Marina Im 24 years old and a mother of 2 beautiul little boys. From the years 2006-2007 i was heavily addicted to Oxy 80 and eventually started doing herion. I got help in sep.2007 at a methadone clinic, it worked for as long as i was on the methadone i had NO relapse's. In June 2009 i was completly off of the methadone that first day that i was on 0Mgs I went through extreme withdrawls i went through things that i would never wish upon my worst enemy! i stayed that way for a day and a half and decided to go to a suboxone doctor. He put me on 32 mgs a day which i thought was pretty high of a dose but he explained to me that methadone withdrawls was worst then any other withdrawls. so i trusted him. Now when i go to see him every month i pretty much beg for him to start the weining process and start lowering me and he pretty much refuses. After months of being on 32mgs a day he finally started tapering me down slowly, i never really thought any thing of it till now but i realized he's keeping me on the suboxne for as long as posible so that he can get my $200.00 a month. all he is, is a legal drug dealer bc now im highly addicted to the suboxone. I recently had to go a few days with out my suboxone bc i didnt have the money to see him and i went through hell. i thought methadone withdrawl was bad OMG there is no comparison. i wanted to either use which i havent done in years or rip my face off lol its funny now but it definatley wasnt funny a few days ago while i was feeling that way! So i spoke to a good friend whos going through the same thing and he told me that they just came out with a new pill to get you off suboxone. I just want to know if that's true. I tryed googleing it but i cant find any thing. If you have heard of this new pill please respond or if you even have a good way to get off soboxone as painless and posible... thanx

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There is no pill it's called heart.. Go for it buddy what do you have to lose, a few sleepless nights, com on

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U have to wein yourself down asap... i started at the same dose as u and i weined myself down because my doc wouldnt... in 3 months time i cut back to a half a strip a day and i feel great.

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Try Zubsolv. It's a new, advanced formulation treatment option for opioid dependent patients that provides higher bioavailability, fast dissolve time, smaller tablet size and a new menthol flavor

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Please tell me

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send me website please

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Hi, I just read your post on the suboxone battle. We graduated the same year and sounds like we have a similar past. I have been on subs for 2.5 years now and do not have a prescription. I was at 16 mg, now down to about 4-8 daily. I want to stop, I really do... Im scared of the WDs and worried I don't have what it takes. What I am wondering is if you are still clean and if you wouldn't mind walking me through the process... As I have literally no friends left and my boyfriend who has no desire to stop himself nevermind help me stop.... If you get this please respond, if not I understand- this post is old and who knows where you're at now. Hope all is well either way. God bless.

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From what I'm understanding it sounds just like Suboxene only in a higher does. Am I right on that? I'm trying to get off suboxene not take a higher dose.

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I first developed the following process during my own personal opiate detox while using subutex. At the time I chose sub therapy I had no available advice that was based on actual experience using the medication. I chose to track my personal results through the process and have since worked with countless people on this forum for years using this regimen successfully exactly as written here. There have been many success stories since. The following plan works the same for using suboxone, subutex or the subutex generic buprenorphine.

I am only sharing my personal experience with what has worked repeatedly on this forum. I am not a doctor and recommend seeking advice from the professional of your choice in all matters that concern you. Drs need to be aware that approximately 15% of all patients taking suboxone react adversely to the naloxone in suboxone and should be placed on subutex rather than suboxone. They will have a much more pleasant experience in this program using subutex.

Sub therapy is rapidly becoming the gold standard for treating opiate addiction. The main problem we see on the forum is the typical sub therapy plan prescribed in the professional medical community is a one-size-fits-all method for treating all patients. Everyone is a little different in reality so it doesn’t work best treating everyone exactly the same way. All too often too much medication is prescribed initially and for far too long of a time resulting in horror stories for many patients. In reality most patients need very little buprenorphine for it to be the most effective.

Patients do best when treated symptomatically. Drs are being advised to prescribe entirely too much medication for whatever reasons according to the success we’ve experienced sharing among ourselves. There are always some exceptions as with any medication, but the exceptions are few and far between. When over-medicated many of these patients under dr's care end up on this forum addicted (for years in many instances) to a medication they were told would aid them in their efforts to end their opiate dependency

Please review this post in detail before asking questions about sub therapy. Many of the most commonly asked questions are addressed here for your convenience.

INDUCTION

The induction is one of the most critical parts of sub therapy. If a person is not inducted properly they often experience ongoing physical and emotional problems throughout the entire sub therapy process. The standard method that many sub drs use of administering anywhere from 16mg to as high as 32mg or more during induction consistently proves to NOT be in the patient’s best interest. These doses inevitably lead to a patient with a physical dependency to the very medication that was supposed to help free them from their dependency.

The purpose of the induction is simply to stabilize the patient ending their w/d symptoms. We find this happens most effectively when the patient is inducted in dosing increments where the patient stabilizes at the †lowest effective dose†. We suggest using an initial 1mg - 2mg dose for those with long term H addictions and long term methadone addictions .(Using 1mg or 2mg is determined by the patient’s using history.) For those with a history of using RX pain medications be it in pill form, fentanyl patches, etc I suggest starting the induction with a dose of .5mg and wait for two hours. This allows the patient enough time to ensure they are receiving maximum benefit from the medication prior to taking each additional increment while stabilizing. After the first two hour period we can add another .5mg if needed but we often find that adding .25mg doses every additional 90 minutes or so will allow the patient to stabilize at doses less than 3mg. This has become the average with most everyone we induct using this protocol. We seldom find it necessary to induct ANYONE at more than 6mg, including those with long-term IV abuse histories. Subs are very powerful and effective when used properly. We have people who have inducted at less than 2mg and we are typically successful with inductions totaling 2-4mg. The people who do best historically are those who begin this therapy at the lowest effective dose. This can only be achieved with an induction process administering minimal amounts of medication at each increment.

The induction process should last for a period of 4-5 days. The first day is when the patient is initially stabilized. On the second day the induction dose is split into two equal doses as this will help with making tapering easier later in the process. At the end of either three or four days we find that the dose used to stabilize the patient can be reduced by 25% on the following day and this becomes the lowest effective dose. Doing all of this takes 4-5 days depending on the individual. This is where the patient’s dose remains until they begin to taper down the dose.

Allowing 4-5 days provides ample time to adjust the induction dose as may be required to maintain the stability of the patient. Those patients who don’t stabilize properly have problems throughout their therapy. That is always the case. The amount used to stabilize doesn’t seem to be as important as using the aforementioned process by which the induction is done up to a point as previously mentioned.

It is imperative the patient be in a state of moderately severe to severe w/d at the time of induction. Otherwise it’s likely the patient will experience precipitated w/d. In short they end up deathly sick. This is another primary reason for beginning with the smallest amount of medication initially to make sure the patient will react desirably. The time required to reach severe w/d after stopping different drugs ( pills vs methadone vs street drugs) varies some but the ABSOLUTE best guide is the COWS worksheet which most drs use some form of anyway. COWS (clinical opioid withdrawal scale) Type that in your search engine for the worksheet. If you make sure you're at a 26 or above accumulatively on the worksheet then you will normally do well with induction if the aforementioned dosing procedure is adhered to. The score of 26 on the COWS worksheet is a minimum. This is a non-negotiable factor that not all drs follow hence they administer large doses of medication attempting to cover up the precipitated w/d.

If a patient finds themselves in precipitated w/d for whatever reason the best thing to do is stop taking the subs immediately and redo the induction as outlined above. Wait until the sickness from precipitated w/d has ended and make sure you have reached the 26 again on the COWS worksheet before taking anything else. DO NOT attempt to take additional suboxone or subutex to cover up the precipitated w/d. You are asking for a hospital stay should you pursue this course of action.


USING SUB TO GET PAST THE OPIATE DETOX

I always suggest some type of support /recovery program for maintaining sobriety. Even those who don’t participate in NA, AA, or Celebrate Recovery usually rely on church, family, or a combination of all the above for a solid range of support. Most of us who have survived our dependency and maintain a reasonable amount of clean time will agree it’s almost impossible to do this on our own and stay clean forever. Staying clean of course is the ultimate goal behind my reasoning for sub use. Subs are just a tool to help us get clean. The people who end up STAYING clean would likely have done it with or without the subs. They are just a tool to assist us.

I agree with the medical community that a solid recovery program is nearly imperative with sub therapy as once the sub therapy ends you are on your own. Sub is an opiate. That’s why it’s called opiate replacement therapy. So when we stop the subs our long term chances for staying clean are so much increased if we are involved in a quality program of recovery whatever that program might be for you.

It takes only a matter of about a week, a little while longer with methadone, but the point being it only takes a short time and the original opiate detox is basically past. We are no longer in real need of a medication used to get us past the detox. So this is where we begin to taper down.

There are ongoing arguments regarding how long one should remain on sub that are based on our using history. The success we have seen to date shows best results are overwhelmingly on the side of using sub short term. We have started to taper in as little as four days and hardly ever over one week following induction. People are being inducted and tapering down to nothing in a matter of about eight weeks average. There are no horror stories from anyone using sub therapy on our forum who use it the way we have suggested from day one.Some allowances have to be made sometimes for those who come to the forum for help following poor previous guidance on using subs properly or following abuse of subs.

None of this means that some people won’t do well using sub as a maintenance medication. I just don’t personally promote long term sub use. It’s certainly a better option than breaking the law to obtain drugs. But the purpose of this plan is for helping people free themselves from opiate dependency.


TAPERING


I began tapering down until I reached .5mg. (Some people find it necessary to taper down to a little less such as .25mg or less.) It’s quite basic reducing to a very low dose following the Standard Taper Plan that follows. That can be accomplished by a formula. But getting to 0mg can be a little more of a challenge especially for those who come to this forum having been on sub elsewhere for a long time or have experienced some other type of extenuating circumstance.

Standard Taper Plan
The standard taper I used and promote is that if you will reduce by 25% of the total daily dose and maintain that dose for a period of four full days while experiencing minimal to no w/d symptoms it’s safe to reduce again by another 25% and expect the same results. If you experience any overwhelming w/d symptoms during the four day period you can take a .25 mg sliver (depending on your existing dose) and the w/d symptoms usually dissipate immediately. If you require slivers to remain stable at any level you should start over the next day trying to put four days together again. This allows for the long half life of buprenorphine which can be up to 72 hours for most people.

After I reached .5mg I began a process of skipping days. I would take a dose one day, then skip one day. Then dose again, and then skip two days. Then dose again, and then skip three days. Then dose again, and then skip four days. After four days clean I was finished. The half life has had time to catch up with itself.

We have found some people, for whatever reason, tend to stress out and suffer anxiety when it comes time to skip days. If that is your experience you can continue the standard 25% taper every four days all the way down to zero in lieu of skipping days if that makes you feel better. Again we are all a little different. The idea is to be successful and the skipping days is not written in stone. That is what worked for me and has worked for most others following this taper plan. But if you need to taper down to nothing instead of skipping days that is certainly a viable and acceptable option.

The reason for sometimes feeling w/d symptoms is the long half life of buprenorphine, the main drug that is in sub and the generic now available. To be very simple it can take days before we experience the w/d symptoms from sub. So this is why we wait for four days to allow for the half life which can easily be up to 72 hours depending on some variables. When we make it four days without symptoms we should be fine reducing again.

It’s not uncommon to have some minor side effects from sub as with almost any medication. There can be some depression, sleep problems, anxiety. So we suggest not taking the sub close to bedtime, get some mild to moderateexercise depending on your physical condition, there are things to do that will help lots of things. But stick with the same principles all the way down as far as you are comfortable. We are here to help at that point.

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Wow, as someone who went through the whole ordeal after decades of prescribed narcotics, I went through using Suboxone from a top Addictionologist, and had a tremendous time doing so! However, this last post has been by FAR the most informative / true / researched best explanation ever read in ONE PLACE!! Trying to help, WELL SAID!!! I used the cow scale, did an out- patient detox as 10 out of 10 inpatient treatment centers refused to detox me, given my heavy multiple perscribed narcotic use, not to mention methadone use. I needed 12 +mg to induce / stabilize. I am still not a fan of Bupernophine, but know it helped me to a point. I wish MORE doctors knew the adverse reaction some experience with Naloxone (I saw a few doctors who pointy REFUSED to give anything but Suboxone stating they did not want harassed by the DEA...!!!) I made SURE I was given Subutex, by mistake on the 4th day was given Suboxone with an adverse reaction...I have been off Subutex for about 8 months now , but still have Neuoroligical / sleep issues from? All the above??? But again, well said and hopefully someone else could benefit reading all this! You say you are not a Doctor? I believe it, as not even Doctors had all that knowledge in ONE place!

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Hi Trying to help, Good post, right on the money. I wished I,d started at a lower dose. About year and half ago i went to sub dr. for oxy habit and he started me on 12mg. I told him up front I wanted to be off them in 3 months. First month I stayed on 12mg then in the following 2 months I tapered down to 1mg. and jumped from there. Couple of uncomfortable nights but that was it. I need a knee replacement and with the type of work I do the pain gets allmost unbearable at times. Insurance won,t touch it. Pre existing condition and all that. Anyways, fiquired I,d wait it out until 2014 when the P.E.C. won,t be an issue with insurance co. In the meantime my leg dr. sent me to a pain dr. I fiquired OK, I won't get carried away because there will be pill counts and u.a.'s. Well once I fiquired out that this dr. didn't do either of those, well I think you know where this is going. Right back into the oxy habit for about a year. Went back to same sub dr. and started on 12mg. I didn,t tell him I wanted to taper this time. First month on 12mg. Went back to see him and he wrote 1 refill on monthly prescription. I wouldn,t have to see him for 2 months. Still had to pay for month I didn,t see him. 2 months ago I just started to taper about weekly until I got down to 1mg. Jumped off sat morning. Its tues. morning and kind of feel like crap. I wish I didn,t start at 12mg. Your way definatly makes more sence. I wish more sub. drs. would fiquire out that less is better in the long run. I happen to have a sub dr. whos not trying to rip me off. There a long waiting list to get in his program. I know this to be true. I just think that he,s not very well informed. Sad but true. Gotta get to work. Thanks again for informative post.

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Stephanie, were u talking to me? I think so because i have the longest sub post on here i think. But yes i will help u if u were meaning me. If not, i do appologize. And thank youbto all for the so to speak cudos. These docrs out here are in for the money sadly, many of them and the innocent one are misinformed and going by the one size fits all rules. I just know how hard this is and if u have the right mindset, u can do it. I did it while having anxiety and children. So can u. Good luck and god bless everyone who even tries. Good for you!

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My partner is on 16mg of subutex and act's like he is drunk is this right or is he taking other stuff behind my back

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Candy, What was he taking before the subs? And the subs have a blocker to block most opiates and other drugs. U can feel something from other things u take, but u would have to take alot to get high effect if thats what ur seeking. Also if taking something else, u could not take a sub right away cause u would get very ill. If the sub amount was lower say like 2-4 mg, its possible to take that amount and other stuff without getting sick, but not at 16mg. He would be sick after taking that amount after taking another drug. I ask what he was taking before cause if it was not that much then the level of 16 mg can have a high like or drunk like feel, like my subs would make me feel "happy" like the opiates did. To spell it out, i took oxi long acting and then 11 hrs later took a sub. Because it was long acting, i got sick, very ill. But i took 16 mg. If it was not long acting, i could have taken a regular opiate, waitied 12 hrs n took the subs n had been fine. I have done that before. There was a time i was mixing subs n opiates as i took 1-2 mg in the am of suubs and took oxys in the middle of the day for my pain, had to take alot for it to work and then that night took 1-2 mg of subs again n was fine. But if ur guy is taking 16 mg and then doing a drug n then takes 16 mg again without a period of atleast 12 hrs between subs n the drug, he would be very ill. Im sorry if some of this is repedative, im just trying to be clear n make sure u understand it all. If u have anymore questions or still dont get something, feel free to ask. Im kinda a pro at this from personal and friends experience. :-)

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Need help on a quater of a 2 mg strip but uave been taking higher doses and i just want off please help me buddy

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This is all bulls***. I quit suboxone months ago after doing it for 2 years. I quit cold turkey and all I had was a runny nose for a couple days and fatigue. The fatigue lasts a while but if you exercise and get in shape BEFORE you detox then it makes it much easier to deal with. All these other people must either have extremely low pain tolerance or they are just week minded and they let the mental aspect take over and make them feel like it was worse than it was

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Butt, im very happy that you made it off the subs well. But to say peoples problems with are bs, thats a bit much and far off. I myself handle pain very well and am very strong minded but find things like this difficult given situations. Everyone is different. I myself having small children to deal with while trying to detox makes it much harder than a person who can sit and do it alone. Being a parent is a around the clock job so like the fatigue you were speaking of, i can only sleep if they are asleep. They raise stress levels and that can make it harder as well. Or if you have a child with mental, physical, or medical issues and you are the only one to take care of them, something like this again would be alot harder. That is just one example that i myself have been in to know how it can complicate things. There are many more and different ones. I still did it being that i am of strong mind but i do know the difference it would have made to do this without those situations. So again, very good for you, im very happy that you made it with ease, you are blessed. But please dont just say peoples issues with this are bs. You dont know what some of them are going through or what state your harsh words could put someone in just looking here for some help. Have a great day!!!

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Tramadol is not a narcotic. It is a non-narcotic drug that is why the addiction docs use it. My doctor gave me this for sleep, it doesn't work for me but I can see how it would help withdrawals. I never thought of using that for w/ds I will try this thank you.

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There is a pill JUST google ibogaine, i was on suboxone for 6 years and i am not a drug addict, i was in an accident and my doctors put me on oxys, after 90 days on oxys i became a opiate dependent person. I saw a video on youtube about johnny the healer, i took my chances and headed to baja mexico,Even after my sub doctor told me i was crazy he said DONT DO IT! He advised to stay on subs. I went to an amazing medical spa, did ibogaine under the care of johnny and his doctors in 3 days I was off all opiates and felt amazing subs are the devil!
you can watch my video transformation on his website. i lost 60lbs since i left his center and have been healed off all drugs, his center is expensive but after 5 rehabs and years of suboxone i had to do it. i got my life back. His center is all over the news, just google it, "ibogaine". you can find lots of clinics that will do it for cheaper than the one i went to, but go, just go, dont be a slave to subs anymore.

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I would LOVE any info on how to get off Suboxone. I had a 5 year addiction to Oxy. Was put on the Oxy because of several back surgeries but of course became addicted.I went to rehab and was put on Suboxone, and have been on it for the past 8 years. I take only 2 mg daily. My doctor is now pressuring me to taper off, over 2 months, but it scares the crap out of me! I really would like to get off it i'm just scared of being depressed and having no emotions without it. I hope you have good luck and would love any tips you could offer!

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I began tapering down until I reached .5mg. (Some people find it necessary to taper down to a little less such as .25mg or less.) It’s quite basic reducing to a very low dose following the Standard Taper Plan that follows. That can be accomplished by a formula. But getting to 0mg can be a little more of a challenge especially for those who come to this forum having been on sub elsewhere for a long time or have experienced some other type of extenuating circumstance.

Standard Taper Plan
The standard taper I used and promote is that if you will reduce by 25% of the total daily dose and maintain that dose for a period of four full days while experiencing minimal to no w/d symptoms it’s safe to reduce again by another 25% and expect the same results. If you experience any overwhelming w/d symptoms during the four day period you can take a .25 mg sliver (depending on your existing dose) and the w/d symptoms usually dissipate immediately. If you require slivers to remain stable at any level you should start over the next day trying to put four days together again. This allows for the long half life of buprenorphine which can be up to 72 hours for most people.

After I reached .5mg I began a process of skipping days. I would take a dose one day, then skip one day. Then dose again, and then skip two days. Then dose again, and then skip three days. Then dose again, and then skip four days. After four days clean I was finished. The half life has had time to catch up with itself.

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