How To Get Off Suboxone (Page 15)

Im Marina Im 24 years old and a mother of 2 beautiul little boys. From the years 2006-2007 i was heavily addicted to Oxy 80 and eventually started doing herion. I got help in sep.2007 at a methadone clinic, it worked for as long as i was on the methadone i had NO relapse's. In June 2009 i was completly off of the methadone that first day that i was on 0Mgs I went through extreme withdrawls i went through things that i would never wish upon my worst enemy! i stayed that way for a day and a half and decided to go to a suboxone doctor. He put me on 32 mgs a day which i thought was pretty high of a dose but he explained to me that methadone withdrawls was worst then any other withdrawls. so i trusted him. Now when i go to see him every month i pretty much beg for him to start the weining process and start lowering me and he pretty much refuses. After months of being on 32mgs a day he finally started tapering me down slowly, i never really thought any thing of it till now but i realized he's keeping me on the suboxne for as long as posible so that he can get my $200.00 a month. all he is, is a legal drug dealer bc now im highly addicted to the suboxone. I recently had to go a few days with out my suboxone bc i didnt have the money to see him and i went through hell. i thought methadone withdrawl was bad OMG there is no comparison. i wanted to either use which i havent done in years or rip my face off lol its funny now but it definatley wasnt funny a few days ago while i was feeling that way! So i spoke to a good friend whos going through the same thing and he told me that they just came out with a new pill to get you off suboxone. I just want to know if that's true. I tryed googleing it but i cant find any thing. If you have heard of this new pill please respond or if you even have a good way to get off soboxone as painless and posible... thanx

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REPORT

I first developed the following process during my own personal opiate detox while using subutex. At the time I chose sub therapy I had no available advice that was based on actual experience using the medication. I chose to track my personal results through the process and have since worked with countless people on this forum for years using this method successfully exactly as written here. There have been many success stories since. The following plan works the same for using suboxone, subutex or the subutex generic buprenorphine.

I am only sharing my personal experience with what has worked repeatedly on this forum. I am not a doctor and recommend seeking advice from the professional of your choice in all matters that concern you. Drs need to be aware that approximately 15% of all patients taking suboxone react adversely to the naloxone in suboxone and should be placed on subutex rather than suboxone. They will have a much more pleasant experience in this program using subutex.

Sub therapy is rapidly becoming the gold standard for treating opiate addiction. The main problem we see on the forum is the typical sub therapy plan prescribed in the professional medical community is a one-size-fits-all method for treating all patients. Everyone is a little different in reality so it doesn't work best treating everyone exactly the same way. All too often too much medication is prescribed initially and for far too long of a time resulting in horror stories for many patients. In reality most patients need very little buprenorphine for it to be the most effective.

Patients do best when treated symptomatically. Drs are being advised to prescribe entirely too much medication for whatever reasons according to the success we've experienced sharing among ourselves. There are always some exceptions as with any medication, but the exceptions are few and far between. When over-medicated many of these patients under dr's care end up on this forum addicted (for years in many instances) to a medication they were told would aid them in their efforts to end their opiate dependency

Please review this post in detail before asking questions about sub therapy. Many of the most commonly asked questions are addressed here for your convenience.

INDUCTION

The induction is one of the most critical parts of sub therapy. If a person is not inducted properly they often experience ongoing physical and emotional problems throughout the entire sub therapy process. The standard method that many sub drs use of administering anywhere from 16mg to as high as 32mg or more during induction consistently proves to NOT be in the patient's best interest. These doses inevitably lead to a patient with a physical dependency to the very medication that was supposed to help free them from their dependency.

The purpose of the induction is simply to stabilize the patient ending their w/d symptoms. We find this happens most effectively when the patient is inducted in dosing increments where the patient stabilizes at the lowest effective dosage . We suggest using an initial 1mg - 2mg dose for those with long term H addictions and long term methadone addictions .(Using 1mg or 2mg is determined by the patient's using history.) For those with a history of using RX pain medications be it in pill form, fentanyl patches, etc I suggest starting the induction with a dose of .5mg and wait for two hours. This allows the patient enough time to ensure they are receiving maximum benefit from the medication prior to taking each additional increment while stabilizing. After the first two hour period we can add another .5mg if needed but we often find that adding .25mg doses every additional 90 minutes or so will allow the patient to stabilize at doses less than 3mg. This has become the average with most everyone we induct using this protocol. We seldom find it necessary to induct ANYONE at more than 6mg, including those with long-term IV abuse histories. Subs are very powerful and effective when used properly. We have people who have inducted at less than 2mg and we are typically successful with inductions totaling 2-4mg. The people who do best historically are those who begin this therapy at the lowest effective dose. This can only be achieved with an induction process administering minimal amounts of medication at each increment.

The induction process should last for a period of 4-5 days. The first day is when the patient is initially stabilized. On the second day the induction dose is split into two equal doses as this will help with making tapering easier later in the process. At the end of either three or four days we find that the dose used to stabilize the patient can be reduced by 25% on the following day and this becomes the lowest effective dose. Doing all of this takes 4-5 days depending on the individual. This is where the patient's dose remains until they begin to taper down the dose.

Allowing 4-5 days provides ample time to adjust the induction dose as may be required to maintain the stability of the patient. Those patients who don't stabilize properly have problems throughout their therapy. That is always the case. The amount used to stabilize doesn't seem to be as important as using the aforementioned process by which the induction is done up to a point as previously mentioned.

It is imperative the patient be in a state of moderately severe to severe w/d at the time of induction. Otherwise it's likely the patient will experience precipitated w/d. In short they end up deathly sick. This is another primary reason for beginning with the smallest amount of medication initially to make sure the patient will react desirably. The time required to reach severe w/d after stopping different drugs ( pills vs methadone vs street drugs) varies some but the ABSOLUTE best guide is the COWS worksheet which most drs use some form of anyway. COWS (clinical opioid withdrawal scale). If you make sure you're at a 26 or above accumulatively on the worksheet then you will normally do well with induction if the aforementioned dosing procedure is adhered to. The score of 26 on the COWS worksheet is a minimum. This is a non-negotiable factor that not all drs follow hence they administer large doses of medication attempting to cover up the precipitated w/d.

If a patient finds themselves in precipitated w/d for whatever reason the best thing to do is stop taking the subs immediately and redo the induction as outlined above. Wait until the sickness from precipitated w/d has ended and make sure you have reached the 26 again on the COWS worksheet before taking anything else. DO NOT attempt to take additional suboxone or subutex to cover up the precipitated w/d. You are asking for a hospital stay should you pursue this course of action.


USING SUB TO GET PAST THE OPIATE DETOX

I always suggest some type of support /recovery program for maintaining sobriety. Even those who don't participate in NA, AA, or Celebrate Recovery usually rely on church, family, or a combination of all the above for a solid network of support. Most of us who have survived our dependency and maintain a reasonable amount of clean time will agree it's almost impossible to do this on our own and stay clean forever. Staying clean of course is the ultimate goal behind my reasoning for sub use. Subs are just a tool to help us get clean. The people who end up STAYING clean would likely have done it with or without the subs. They are just a tool to assist us.

I agree with the medical community that a solid recovery program is nearly imperative with sub therapy as once the sub therapy ends you are on your own. Sub is an opiate. That's why it's called opiate replacement therapy. So when we stop the subs our long term chances for staying clean are so much increased if we are involved in a quality program of recovery whatever that program might be for you.

It takes only a matter of about a week, a little while longer with methadone, but the point being it only takes a short time and the original opiate detox is basically past. We are no longer in real need of a medication used to get us past the detox. So this is where we begin to taper down.

There are ongoing arguments regarding how long one should remain on sub that are based on our using history. The success we have seen to date shows best results are overwhelmingly on the side of using sub short term. We have started to taper in as little as four days and hardly ever over one week following induction. People are being inducted and tapering down to nothing in a matter of about eight weeks average. There are no horror stories from anyone using sub therapy on our forum who use it the way we have suggested from day one.Some allowances have to be made sometimes for those who come to the forum for help following poor previous guidance on using subs properly or following abuse of subs.

None of this means that some people won't do well using sub as a maintenance medication. I just don't personally promote long term sub use. It's certainly a better option than breaking the law to obtain drugs. But the purpose of this plan is for helping people free themselves from opiate dependency.


TAPERING


I began tapering down until I reached .5mg. (Some people find it necessary to taper down to a little less such as .25mg or less.) It's quite basic reducing to a very low dose following the Standard Taper Plan that follows. That can be accomplished by a formula. But getting to 0mg can be a little more of a challenge especially for those who come to this forum having been on sub elsewhere for a long time or have experienced some other type of extenuating circumstance.

Standard Taper Plan
The standard taper I used and promote is that if you will reduce by 25% of the total daily dose and maintain that dose for a period of four full days while experiencing minimal to no w/d symptoms it's safe to reduce again by another 25% and expect the same results. If you experience any overwhelming w/d symptoms during the four day period you can take a .25 mg sliver (depending on your existing dose) and the w/d symptoms usually dissipate immediately. If you require slivers to remain stable at any level you should start over the next day trying to put four days together again. This allows for the long half life of buprenorphine which can be up to 72 hours for most people.

After I reached .5mg I began a process of skipping days. I would take a dose one day, then skip one day. Then dose again, and then skip two days. Then dose again, and then skip three days. Then dose again, and then skip four days. After four days clean I was finished. The half life has had time to catch up with itself.

We have found some people, for whatever reason, tend to stress out and suffer anxiety when it comes time to skip days. If that is your experience you can continue the standard 25% taper every four days all the way down to zero in lieu of skipping days if that makes you feel better. Again we are all a little different. The idea is to be successful and the skipping days is not written in stone. That is what worked for me and has worked for most others following this taper plan. But if you need to taper down to nothing instead of skipping days that is certainly a viable and acceptable option.

The reason for sometimes feeling w/d symptoms is the long half life of buprenorphine, the main drug that is in sub and the generic now available. To be very simple it can take days before we experience the w/d symptoms from sub. So this is why we wait for four days to allow for the half life which can easily be up to 72 hours depending on some variables. When we make it four days without symptoms we should be fine reducing again.

It's not uncommon to have some minor side effects from sub as with almost any medication. There can be some depression, sleep problems, anxiety. So we suggest not taking the sub close to bedtime, get some mild to moderateexercise depending on your physical condition, there are things to do that will help lots of things. But stick with the same principles all the way down as far as you are comfortable. We are here to help at that point.

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Now i tried to copy and paste my whole taper plan but it would only let me copy and paste it from my records in pieces, not sure why. I dont know if it will all make sense the way it will appear but try to piece it together and if you have any questions, please ask. My other name on here depending where i am responding from is "trying to help". It changes depending on device. Not sure why. But good luck!!!!

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Hi thank u its all good how his dose was to high but all sorted .

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Almost a year on anywhere from 4-8mg a day and want to wean off ASAP !!

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follow the taper below by "one informed chic". Let us know if u have any questions and we are here for support.

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Please tell me. my gf is so stressed about me being on them. I've tapered down a lot. she doesn't understand it tskes time. i also don't havr a lot of time to feel bad. i have an active job. so i havr to be strong happy and energetic. please help! Last time i went 9 days and was feeling worse each day. heard it takes up to 30 days or longrr.

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Jess, that is why the taper plan is effective cause u skip days, u dont just quit cold turkey. And try telling ur gf to be patient b/c she needs to think of the alternative.

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Are you still monitoring your post?

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To whom are u asking about monitoring their post. And i have a pic of the 12 panel u.a if anyone is intrested in the pic or the list of whats on it so u can know or let someone know what is being checked for. Snapped on a form when signing it at my own test.

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How? Please share how to get off suboxne. My daughter trying to get off by herself. She tapered from 2 mg every other day to 1 mg and today is day 3 without any. I expect today to be bad..

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I am close to three months pregnant and before finding out I was going to having a baby I was doing oxy. As soon as the results came out to positive I stopped doing pills. My boyfriend helped me by getting me a couple suboxone strips. I didnt want to become addicted to those so I've been just cutting little pieces each night before bed and taking one. Is this an ok way of doing it? I feel a little poopy thru out the day but not bad enough where I need to take a piece of suboxone. How should I go about with completely stopping? Need help.

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Hey stressed, well congrats on the baby. There is no easy way to get off the oxys or the subs, if you read the thread down, it shows a tapper plan that you could follow just start with the dose u take. But also know that if u are dependent, ur baby may become as well. I already went thru that. As hard as it may be, even if u were taking them unprescribed, the best thing is to tell ur dr so that they can help u or get u to a perinatologist...high risk pregnancy dr. They specialize in things like this. I saw one for my whole pregnancy because you get to a point where it is not safe to come off of those while pregnant. If you go into withdrawls, they can help u, but not ur unborn baby. Ur baby runs the risk of coming out dependent and they have to wein them off after they are born but it is safer then u just stopping while prego. I dont know how far along u have to be for that to be an issue though. For me, they didnt want me to quit but just stay stable on the meds until delivery, then after recovery, weined me off and my baby did not come out dependent, thank god, he was fine, and usually that is not the case and thats alot for a new born to go thru. But at this time i believe its best to tell ur dr and get their help so u can assure ur baby makes it into the world ok. If u have anymore questions or need more advice or info just ask me. Ive been thru this already. Best of luck and god bless!!!

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I was on 70 mg of done for 10 years tapered down to 30mg in one week to get on subs. That 3 days waiting to get on subs was wow! Awful. The most subs I was ever on was 24mg about 3months I just did not need it so I taper down now 5 years later I am now 1mg aday. Now that has been hard cutting that strip. Hell I can barely see what I am taking. Dr saying stay where I am for month or so don't go nsck up. I am trying
I am in the twilight zone. Wish you well you know your body.

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I am so interested. I want to live a normal life again. Please help me. I would give anything to have my life back. How do I do it?

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Heather I need you to respond back to this post to make sure you see it. Once I know you have seen this and you give me confirmation I will give you further information to contact me. I will help you. But some people post here once and never return So I don't want to put my information on here for it to just be floating around two others. I want to know if I leave the information here to contact me that you will see it. Use my username on here to respond to me. Have a blessed day

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please give me advice... 5 years on subs. down to 2mg a day but scared to stop. Im soo done with it!! please share

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Nic, follow the forum down to the message by one informed chic dated october 25, 2013. It gives u all the taper help and advice u need. Then if u need any more help, come back and ask me. Im the same person who posted it, just diff name registered on this device. Good luck and god bless!

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Well yesterday was my last day at .5mg and Im ready. Been on subs for about 5yrs and I tapered down by myself. The highest I've ever been was only 8mg and didn't like the way it made me feel. Only problem is my wife is scared for me. I know I'm ready just tired of wasting money when I can use it for my kids. So as of today I will no longer be on subs. I will keep everyone informed on how things are going.
As of now my back is a little stiff but I can deal with that.

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Hi JamesG, I wish you luck. I,ve come off subs twice before so its doable. I,m back on them again. Be careful you don,t fall back into your old habits like I did. Doesn,t take much, some pain pills from dental precedure etc... and back to the races. It was about days 3-5 when the half life started wearing off when I felt worse. However, it was nothing like past oxy wds. You,ll be fine. Excercise helps a lot. Even a walk around the block after supper does wonders. Good luck and please post in your progress. You could even start your own post if you wanted. That way more people would be apt to read it and can make suggestions.

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If you take 2 or more a day I found and it not that fun, but if you WD for a whole day you can start your dose back way lower. I take 2 a day and anything less would get me sick when I ran out of money I WD for maybe 24-36 hours and was able to take 1/8 of a strip and I was fine. Hope that helps anyone who takes a huge dose a day

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