Teva Barr Dextroamphetamine Sulfate Fraud Placebo

I have been on Barr/Teva dexedrine sulfate (generic) for 14 years. After 5 "shortages" I recently received back my script, butt it's a placebo !!!! Nothing at all. I took 25 10 milligram tabs; nothing at all. It's an unethical and disgusting scam. Am writing every politician, fda, Quality control, anyone who can address the monster of a crime.

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I feel the same way. The Dex 10's that were given to me had to be abused to have any effect. There is some FAKE crap out there. I have narcolepsy and took 60mg of adderall cor brand and never woke up. I feel sorry for kids with ADD and being forced to take a fake pill thinking its real only to screw up there homework and ultimately their lives. Something is Rotten in the generic stimulant area. FDA could give two s***s less about protecting us from fake or weak drugs coming in. I run a business and pay taxes and weak drugs mean less taxes paid. Bad days for me means less Transmissions getting rebuilt. Less income means no support for the FDA's retirement account.

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I agree 100% with what both of you said. The sad/scary/problem is that hit s NOT only with the Barr/Teva generics. I have been prescribed generic Adderall for years (amphetamine salts). Suddenly, CVS (the pharmacy I usually fill at) switched from the oval shaped Barr/Teva to a round pill made by Mylan. I first started noticing these "placebo" or even negative effects after taking the the Mylan brand 20mg pill (for generic Adderall). Convinced it was the Mylan brand pills that were the problem, I went through a considerable amount of trouble with CVS, but was finally able to get them to give me Barr/Teva brand again. After all that trouble, I am now noticing the same "placebo effect" with the Barr/Teva brand that you are describing! I also noticed the color of the Barr/Teva pill seems to be slightly darker and more pinkish than it used to be. I am not sure what is going on be it seems to be across many of the generics prescribed for ADD/ADHD. Please let me know if you find a solution or more info!

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This is also happening to me right now. Filled from CVS in Nashua NH. Pharmacist dismisses it as if they never made mistakes at all.

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Take Ritalins instead. They might not last as long unless u get the NVR Ritalins or the focalins. There the same. I've done all generic Ritalins and they always work.

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Crime of the century -- 100% bogus ripoff. I'm so tired -- very sick from it all. -sigh-

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Yes, I agree with every poster on this thread. I will be brief as I can. I have been on Brand Dexedrine Spansules 15 mg. by (SKB) later GSK (1994 to 2010) + a afternoon "instant release booster" by the same mfg, (Dexedrine 5 mg "E-19" hearts also during those same years, BUT, GSK discontinued the production of the pink Dex 5 mg E-19's in mid year 2009, *which were the ONLY RATED ADD med in the Orange Book as a AA class for the superior quality, REF: REDBOOK Pharmacy's Fundamental Reference along with DextroStat (Shire/Richwood) for A.D.D!

The Dexedrine Spansule embossed 3515 and 15mg /SKB were also sold to both another USA pharmaceutical company, and also sold to a different pharma firm in Canada, not sure of who has the license in Canada now but it still is available in Canada, beginning in 2011 and onward with Paladin Pharma & for the USA (extremely expensive) by originally Amedra, in 2011. I have not seen any pharmacies in the USA who even stock them, IMO due to the extremely brand name high cost. They are available.

But, IMO would take a independent pharmacy & a written RX + a large up front deposit to even have a non chain USA pharmacy to order the Dexedrine Spansules *1/2 brown 1/2 clear with the historical pink & white little granules/pellets .... embossed "3514" & IMO no USA insurance company will pay one cent for them!

I have still take a very necessary med for my A.D.D. but I have gone thru extreme frustration with both the poor bioequivalence and the very poor non FDA bioavailability. since both the shortages thart began in the USA from late 2011, thru 2014, and, the radical AWP price increase, and, IMO none of the generic mfg, are nearly as effective as both Brand original Smith Kline French labs Phil PA who held the original patent!

One exception was for a brief time, when Shire US made the brand DEXTROSTAT 5 mg in the 90's. The quality was almost as good IMHO as the SKF E-19's 5 mg by SKB/GSK. Even when Barr Labs made the generic before and after the Barr merger in Dec 2008, with parent TEVA of Israel, especially the Barr 1/2 Brown & 1/2 White dextroamphetamine (granules/pellets) ER 15 mg embossed "956" from 2007 to at least 2015/2016, had a Orange Book rating, of "AB" like the Dexedrine Brand Spansules (of SKF/SKB/GSK) Ref: REDBOOK, but due to the massive shortages (remember 2012 to 2014 ?) & the "large price hikes", IMHO, ir has especially been all downhill, IMO for all A.D.D patients and for Narcolepsy patients ! DextroStat (with its equal FDA Orange book rating of AA, has long been gone, discontinued by both Shire US, a decade ago, and as many say on this Meds Chat forum, there are a lot of intelligent people who have seen the sad demise of both the quality, the availability, & the come & go many poor bioavailability generics for Dexedrine (both in I/R version & in ER & SR versions. Ranbaxy, Core, & KVK Tech, Aerobindo were the worst IMO, & there are others, as we all sadly know.

The only exceptions were the once outstanding but brief generic version of Ethex 5mg & 10 mg, & the HTF Mallinckrodt generics for the DextroStat I/R versions, & their HTF generic versions of the Dexedrine Spansule, which IDK if they even have a rating, or not, ref: Orange Book. IMO the latter are not as good as the now deleted versions above, but, they were the only "acceptable" so-so versions I could locate (2016, 2017), I agree with my interpretation that, I still use the Teva.Barr instant release pink embossed b side one 10 scoreline 952 side two. (if you can even find them) as we know the market also has changed with the government regulators to limit the production of the chemicals necessary for all once popular C-II meds like Generic Dextroamphetamine and the Amphet/Dex Salts. TEVA (I choose to not comment on their issues), but, if one does there research, the news has not been good, Ref: fiercepharma.com. Good luck everyone!

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It's with all the generics..! I take Adderall and I went on in 2011. Then I took 20mg ir or any brand and was wired all day. I went off in 2014 untill 2017 and when I got my first script it was mylan and it was garbage. I've gone through all the generics and I need to take 120mg or more to even feel the medication. I switched to Adderall xr name brand and those are ok but expensive. I'm also on Subutex generics and they have all gone to crap as well. I need to try to have CVS order a certain brand or I get stuck with garbage. It's gotten really bad!!

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Re: Ridgerunner (# 6)


I sent you a reply to another comment you posted... My experience with poor/questionable quality and inconsistent therapeutic outcomes is like yours, however, I have much less experience with different manufacturers. I hope you get my other comment because there were a few questions that I think you are uniquely qualified to answer. I will say that based on your post about Mallinckrodt, which I surprisingly received today from my CVS who has always carried the Barr 10mgs, I did quite a bit of research in the orange book and in the NBA and even downloaded Mallinckrodt generic PDF and they are rated AA and is bar. MYLAN is AB. According to the FDA anything that starts with an A should not have issues but of course they do not consider the binders, and as anybody knows depending upon one's gastric pH people have been known to poop certain vitamins in their original form! Some of the oldest generics we're literally like sublinguals and they dissolved almost instantly in your mouth, while corepharma and Wilshire are like swallowing pebbles. Binders are a huge issue with bioavailability and additives including colors are known to cause allergic reactions which are often expressed as a rapid heartbeat even though most people would think it's the medication causing that as opposed to the filler. I'm with everybody on here it's been a really challenging journey just to get the meds let alone consistently say with one generic only to find out that the generic that you've been counting on is questionably compliant with quality control laws.

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Re: Ridgerunner (# 6)

This is NOT just a problem with Dextroamphetamine, Amphetamine salts or any other stimulant in this drug family. It's any and every narcotic dispensed in America from all synthetic opiates, benzodiazepines, diazepine, barbiturates, muscle relaxants or basically anything the alphabet government agencies have deemed that WE the American people can get 'high' on and or abuse...

This started in 2013-2014 with Obama doing this, but Trump hasn't done anything to correct this nightmare so he too has his fingers in the pie! This was Obama and his government agencies mandating to big pharma to reformulate everyone of these drugs so no one can abuse these drugs! Sheer lunacy at its worst! Was there some type of replacement drug? Nope, enjoy your unmedicated medical condition sheeple! We know what's best for you!

So basically any and every legitimate patient that these drugs were created and intended for a certain diagnosed medical condition no longer mattered to the federal government! We can't have people abusing these life-saving medications, so the people that they were intended for will just have to suffer and we the federal government could care less because we're the federal government and we know what's best for YOU...

This was done behind our backs, the patients, but doctors and pharmacies were well aware of what the government had done! So those pharmacists that got in your face or doctor and treated you like a drug seeker because you're saying a certain drug is basically worthless or very inferior and told you they're still the same is a bald face LIAR!

How can any of us actually be surprised that the federal government could/would pull off such a heinous act on legitimate patients of all different types of medical diagnoses who will suffer without these drugs in their past formulations??? Simply put, THEY COULD CARE LESS!!!

Doctors are too stupid to know what's right for their patients so WE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT must step in and save these people from their doctors, big pharma and most importantly from themselves!

This is exactly the state of America today! We The People must vote out any and all of the politicians who think like this and have them remove the people in the government alphabet agencies who helped create this insanity to begin with! This was just another government FAKE HOAX WITCH HUNT based on lies and manipulated falsified data by people within the alphabet agencies yet once again! Like this is anything new...

It's just more on the FAKE war on drugs to create bigger government alphabet agency budgets, to create more government bureaucracy and grow the size of the government and its control over We The People!

Please feel free to explore all over "Medschat" about every narcotic medication that big pharma makes and see everybody is saying the same thing about these worthless/inferior pills of all types...

This is an all time low even for the federal government! Now you know they've played us all for stupid, but we're not stupid! They are stupid for thinking no one would figure out what they did! We're real patients with a real medical diagnosis and these medications were created to gives us a quality of life that we couldn't have without them, but the federal government could care less... The government will go after any doctor who's not on board with their lunacy upon legitimate patients and destroy their lives! It's way past time to take our country back from the FAKE HOAXERS and bring common sense back to this country! It seems everytime We The People let them get away with telling us they know best! We The People just continue to suffer more and more! Now they've destroyed our medications that gave us a quality of life we thought not possible and played us for stupid while we suffer! The federal government has become nothing less than lawless lying thugs who want to RULE us, not help us...

Bless all of you who are forced to take basically worthless or very inferior medications and immensely suffer because of this out of control lying power hungry government!!! I'm pointing my finger at ALL politicians who idley sit by and allow this to happen to a single person who's suffering, but it's tens of millions... This is an over reaching government beyond belief and it's both Democrats and Republicans who are to blame along with the power hungry lawless goon squads within the alphabet agencies...

I'm a severe pain patient for 30+ years. I was on the same amount of medication for 15 years and then in early 2014 I went to the pharmacy to get my medication... A day later when I started taking this reformulated junk I ended up in the emergency room with my pain out of control! I thought something went horrible wrong with my current medical condition, but I was horrible mistaken... They checked my 'Oxytocin' levels (excreated by the pituitary gland) and they were extremely low for the amount medication I was taking. They said, Mark did you not take your medication today? I said, I take it like clock work! That's when a nurse told me that pharmaceutical companies were doing reformulations of all narcotics as a deterrent to stop abuse and my NEW medications were evidently the new reformulated medications! Since then my life went from a fair amount of activity to a life now of alot of staying in bed, couch, recliner because I'm not tolerating the pain whatsoever! I went from medicated pain levels of 3 to 4 and currently pain levels of 8 to 10 on these junk pills of today! Can't go to the emergency room any longer or I'm treated like a drug addict! I'll die before I ever goto an emergency room again and be treated like I'm some kind of loser...

Is this what Americans have been reduced to that have some type of diagnosed medical condition and the treatment is some type of narcotic? Simply put, YES! You are now a disposable person according to our out of control government and the lawless goon squads in their alphabet agencies...

If there was ever a time to vote for politicians that will clean out these crooked lawless government alphabet agencies and reduce their sizes, its NOW! Often referred to as the DC Swamp, people no one ever votes for! There's nothing they won't pull to exert their will and nothing they won't pull to save their taxpayer gravy train jobs... These are the people who led the charge to destroy our medications and lied to the politicians to get their way! Cement greater funding for their agencies and no one holds them accountable because a lot of politicians are scared of them! Businesses are reconstructed to be more effective and efficient, but government alphabet agencies just get bigger and bigger and more crooked and lawless year after year! They have to create some type of crisis to get a bigger budget and get more employees!
Now are you starting to understand the FAKE OPIOID CRISIS and FAKE PHARMACEUTICAL NARCOTIC CRISIS??? It's all about money, power and gravy train taxpayer jobs! The real drug crisis is heroin and illicit fentanyl, but they don't dare tell the truth! Because that's not the enormous lie they want to sell to the American public! That's just more of them not stopping illegal drugs coming into the country with the decades long FAKE WAR ON DRUGS! Their getting billions and billions more taxpayer dollars with the FAKE OPIOID CRISIS!

Now you should have a complete picture of how crooked government agencies exert their BS on Americans and line their pockets off of FAKE HOAXES!

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I could have wrote the exact as you did. I live in IL and I called Walgreens and asked them what is going on with this batch? They actually put me to sleep! I take 5 20's a day, now are from Teva, of course Walgreens don't know anything.
So I waste a whole damn month on these things.

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Re: RCMAFL (# 8)

I just read your post. I also read post #9 (Mark) and post #10 by Juneblond. Just a brief comment, I just read a outstanding book, titled "Bottle of Lies" subtitled The Inside Story of the Generic Boom by Katherine Eban in Hardcover (HarperCollins) 2019. The Author of this 482 page book with 410 references, was recommended by my new Dr (another 70 plus aging Psychiatrist, who replaced by 20 year uninterrupted loyal Psychiatrist, who, retired, in October of 2019).

The Author of this book, loaded with facts, on the corruption with certain US division Pharmceutical firms, and several others, with Int'l foreign hdqtrs outside the USA. Plus facts about the FDA, that imho, many patients who take any products from the Controlled Substances Act in the USA should known about. Katherine Eban, Author, is a Fortune magazine contributor & Andrew Carnegie Fellow & lectures frequently on the topic of pharmaceutical integrity. Educated at Brown University, and Oxford UK (where she was a Rhodes Scholar, and now lives in NYC with her family).

One topic she discusses at great length, is the rise & fall of Ranbaxy of India, with divisions in the USA. Also, to a lesser degree such firms as Mylan, Pfizer, & Woodhardt & Cipla. Extensive research on the USA FDA plus the FDA India Office. Also, not relating to this book, I highly recommend to follow www.fiercepharma.com and/or subscribe to this industry newletter imo, who tell the truth, about such things as my choice of words "the rise and fall of TEVA", both in the USA & internationally, due to so many USA lawsuits, from to many USA states to list via the DOJ & each US states Attorney General, for price fixing, and fraud, and/or manipulation, of the historical shortages of ADD/Narcolepsy that harmed the patients from 2011 to around 2017.

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Re: Ridgerunner (# 11)

Any experience with WINDER LABORATORIES? Their IR is now hitting the CVS pipeline and I'm skeptical as I should be based on the disparity in quality and efficacy among generics

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Re: Mark (# 9)

How are things going now?

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Re: Mark (# 9)

Without credible investigative journalism w/data and sources this is a deranged rant..

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Re: Bobby (# 7)

CVS and Rite Aid get the worst meds. They use the same distributors.
Walmart and Wallgreens use the same distributor, but a different one than CVS and Rite Aid. They get a much better quality.

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"I recently received back my script, butt it's a placebo !!!!"

I do believe you!

"It's an unethical and disgusting scam. Am writing every politician, fda, Quality control, anyone who can address the monster of a crime"

thank you!

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Re: Mark (# 9)

GREAT post. Then there's the naive masses, who can't believe that those in power would ever do such a thing! And they overlap plentifully with the under 40 set, who think that every action by the government is automatically correct, and would sooner play 'divide and conquer' with anyone who has a slightly different view. Most refuse to realize that those with a vast amount of money and power can and will do whatever they see fit, regardless of what they say or what the laws are, and will reverse engineer any crisis/spin whatever tale/play fast and loose with statistics/use the media and brain dead "influencers" and "celebrities" to make the average citizen turn against their own interests and denigrate those who aren't fooled.

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Generic drugs are all lower doses and you can thank CDC and DEA they are trying to get people off opiates. Yes, I bitched about it to doctors and pharmacies. They look at me like are you telling me those pills are fake.

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Re: Mike NYC (# 2)

Eurobonds and Teva and torrent generic drugs thank DEA and CDC

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i have been taking brand name DEXEDRINE SPANSULE for 30+ years and have never had a problem like this before. I also get terrible Diarrhea from these weird things.

to make matters worse they ran out of temazepam again!

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Re: Mark (# 9)

I am a huge critic of so many things. But even I think you are way off the rails on this stuff. Looks like you have been reading some of those far right conspiracy written in their mothers basement type of blogs.

Look, the problem with psychoactive meds is that the excipients (inactive ingredients) can help or hinder the active pharmaceutical ingredient (API) from passing the blood brain barrier (BBB). Many generics use cheap ingredients and their stuff has a hard time crossing the BBB. Bio-equivalence requirements to get FDA approval only compare generic to the name brand based on blood concentration over the duration of the drug. Crossing the BBB never comes into play. Which is how a drug that doesn't work can pass FDA' approval and make it to market anyway.

More than likely you were given a new generic brand and that was the root of your issues. They didn't go around reformulating everything because of Obama.

Drug companies themselves are constantly making variations of existing drugs in order to create a name brand with no generic competition. Or to outdo existing drugs to grab market share. Addiction potential is actually a financial incentive for big pharma as it can obviously drive users and revenue. As is euphoric effects etc. Saying we should design drugs that have less, not more addiction and abuse potential is not a mandate to reformulate all existing drugs and the government does not actually have the power to force them to do that.

So, Fentanyl increased therapeutic effect over other opioids like morphine, increased euphoric effect and on smaller relative dose, increased abuse potential, made a massive amount of money doing it regardless of all those negatively affected by it.

Vyvance, amphetamine based med, greatly reduced potential for addiction, euphoric effect, and because of that abuse potential. Most of the time just as effective as other amphetamine meds if starting without existing tolerance.

They were openly criticizing drug company's trying to shame them or influence them into making less abusable and destructive new drugs. There is no way big pharma would not have run to the republicans and spent millions in add campaigns to block an effort to make them reformulate all the drugs which require expensive NDAs and invalidates all existing generics if the old formulates were not allowed and would give brand name patent protection to them meaning they couldn't even make generics for many years. And it takes years for an NDA to go through the process so no way did it happen right away and so many other factors that show what ever your source is, they have zero actual understanding on how anything at all works and lack ability to simply comprehend information correctly to begin with, I just got done writing a long post criticizing big pharma, insurance companies, PBMs, FDA, DEA, and all therapists who prescribe medications. So, not a fan or defender of them. But I actually bothered to learned enough so I don't make completely unfounded accusations.

It wasn't easy figuring out how FDA bio-equivalence actually works when even professionals explain it wrong. Understanding excipients and finding out they all have their own drug profiles and effects which influences how the drug actually works in the end. And how the BBB works well enough and info on actual excipients that influence the permeation of it or escort the API across to the brain where it needs to be.

Researched DEA and their quota system for CNS stimulant APIs, how ANDAs work, What the FDA can actual do and has been restricted from doing. Why they stopped the requirement for generics to show therapeutic equivalence and only assume it now through bio-equivalence. The actual laws behind Scheduled medications and writing prescriptions. And many other things. Spreading false information based on who knows what with some existing political agenda dose nothing for anyone. There are posts on this site complaining of ineffective drugs that predate Obama which that alone shows it is the real fake information that you are posting.

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Re: Ridgerunner (# 11)

Is the manipulation you are referring to when Shire took the raw amphetamines they were provided and was supposed to supply the generic brands with their quota from there for Adderall? Since their drug just went generic they stood to loose lots of brand name sales I.e. money. Instead they used it to make a lot of their new brand name drug Vyvanse. Which created an Adderall shortage of course. And forced many people taking Adderall to have to switch to their not in shortage brand name and more expensive Vyvanse? As well as new patients starting out with it. Making them a lot of money and future customers.

In which the FDA was powerless to do anything as their authority is restricted as much as possible by the GOP who hates government and regulations that can impact a company. There was also a 2015 independent report to Congress on the incompetence of the DEA in regards to their regulating the amphetamine supply and their quota system, which made things many times worse, and never got fixed. And is one of the biggest factors in the shortage that started late 2021 and is still ongoing even though it has a only been declared for a few months here and there.

Something else you may find interesting, I did find a report on the compensation structure for Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBM). The separate company that manages the drugs on your insurance. Which explains why a company like OptumRx does things that would make no sense at all without knowing how they get paid. Also, they violate the law in New York which requires them to have the patient in mind when planning their formulary lists and drug tiers/coverage. I'm sure their teams of lawyers have a defense already planned in case someone calls them out someday.

Low end bronze marketplace plan I had tier costs $15/25/60, Strattera generic a tier 1 drug $15.
My current Platinum $1400 a month plan with OptumRx PBM has tier costs of $5/35/70, Generic Strattera, tier 1 for $5? No, tier 3 $70 and requires prior authorization. Can get it for $22 if I go to their preferred pharmacies that have limited hours and hard to get to in time for people who don’t work in town. Depending on the generic a pharmacy has, can get it for under $70 if the negotiated price is less (not all the time though). I use GoodRx.com coupons for a few of my medications which is free to use and has cheaper prices than many of my platinum insurance coverages in those cases.

Even worse, They usually only list 4 to 5 results pricing a drug on the web, some drugs less. Can’t price shop as most places in the area are not listed. And I currently live in Jersey City which has tons of pharmacies around. Search covers “within 10 miles”, Acme $30. Walgreens $70. 3 preferred pharmacies that I couldn’t get to if still working out of town and not open weekends and are a pain in the butt to deal with anyway as I tried before, $22. Goodrx lists 12 pharmacies actually near me with prices.

Even worse than even worse, OptumRx always lists the cheaper “similar alternative” medication they want you on. It used to be generic Adderall. In the deepest part of the shortage of it making most people, at least in my area, not even able to get it. Worse than that Strattera is a non-stimulant con-controlled substance as it has almost no potential for abuse or addiction. No restrictions. Adderall is stimulant amphetamines! A schedule II drug which shares the category with Cocaine, Fentanyl, Oxycodone, Morphine, and Raw Opium. And amphetamines are the most potentially damaging of all the ADHD drugs. It works way differently than Strattera. I brought this up to them and they changed the drug they are trying to force people onto to guanfacine. Which is not a similar drug alternative to Strattera. I’ll skip the part where I go off on that…

Even worse than even worse than even worse. I was already on generic Adderall so it is obviously not a similar alternative to Strattera for me! I started Strattera to combat the negative Adderall side effects and reduce my Adderall dose as I am trying to get off that stuff due to ruining my life even below my prescribed dosage! Strattera has the opposite side effects from Adderall which are positive for me. And is an NMDAr antagonist which protects the NMDA/glutamatergic pathways that Adderall is excitotoxic of (NMDA/glutamatergic overexcitement dysfunction resulting in oxidative stress and apoptosis (automated cell death) which is something shared in common with Alzheimer’s, Parkinsons, ALS, and many other cognitive disorders, but that is a whole other post!) Note, most people are stable on their amphetamine based meds.

[Warning imminent rant approaching] People at moderate or high doses should be aware of all the ways prescription amphetamine can damage neural pathways and the endocrine system and how to prevent or attenuate them to any degree. In which their own therapist will probably tell you that can’t happen as they only know the talking points the drug company came up with from the clinical trials they conducted and paid for to pass the FDA requirements to go to market and make billions. Which their results are also known as the DSM and FDA guidelines for the drugs. Max dose for ADHD 40mg, for narcolepsy 60mg (but therapists will often go to 60mg for ADHD due to established safety up to that dose from narcolepsy). Studies were conducted from short term studies in children to establish proof of therapeutic effect, dosage range, short term side effects profiles. Which ignores adults and long term tolerance and side effects that don’t show up short term! Adult dosage range was never established. Studies were just done up to 60mg in adults to prove safety up to that dose. Left assumptions up to therapists. Only recently did they start taking this info out of the FDA approved accompanying literature. Even then, max of the dosage ranges was not a safety cutoff. It was the max dose in which no higher dose for children new to the medication took that did not add an additional therapeutic effect above. Search reddit.com to find lists of how amphetamine damages the brain. Might be some on the endocrine system too. Search for Adderall and Memantine (best drug to prevent or reduce amphetamine tolerance). The important information about Adderall and other amphetamine based meds is tied up in research. Which has a long pathway to become curriculum or accepted medical fact. And often won’t get that far as negative things can potentially reduce sales and won’t get the funding or attention something that can increase sales will get. Or may even get interference from drug companies. Lots of research is preclinical (example, done in a test tube or they pumped rats with drugs and cut them up to see what happened). Or have clinical trials which are expensive and can be poorly done or not have interest and/or funding for confirmation and peer review. Or have counter trials funded by drug companies to establish conflicting results which take much more trials and funding to overcome etc…

Case in point, drug companies are spending money on trials for their ADHD meds to show therapeutic effect for a disorder known as Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT, as of 2022 now named Cognitive Disengagement Syndrome or CDS) which effects tens of thousand of people in the U.S. alone. But was left out of the DSM-V due to incomplete research, Now that they are getting closer to potentially being in the DSM, drug companies are already pre-emptively getting in position to make money off it in anticipation.
On the other hand Mounjaro, a diabetes medication for many people can help or hinder or be neutral in regards to their cognitive based disorders and medications, even affect those with no meds or disorders usually to a lesser degree when it does. There are a bunch of preliminary studies showing Mounjaro (and other GLP-1 based meds are in on it too) that they can be an effective second line medication for people with drug resistance for disorders like anxiety and depression. Which is great for people who are bi-polar and have started GLP-1 drugs had it therapeutically help and allowed them to decrease their bi-polar meds and in some cases even stop taking other drugs for anxiety and depression. Woohoo! Then there are the bi-polar people who had to be inpatient hospitalized after starting GLP-1 meds to rebalance their neurotransmitters, which can be devastating to their work, lives in general, and finances. Not to mention just plane sucks! Not a single study on that. Not even acknowledged by big pharma, the FDA, the medical industry or researchers. But, big pharma did fund a study based on social media reports on unlisted side effects from Mounjaro. Which concluded there were none and people were mistaken or misidentified them or from something else but they blamed Mounjaro! But, if you read the study very carefully, you will see that side effects reported as from drug interactions were excluded from the study!! Which is not what most people will realize when they see the study. Cheap meta-study based on configured keyword searches and algorithms probably from an existing software package made for compiling info from social media chats and what not costing a few thousand dollars to discredit likely thousands of people. Preventing exposure that could potentially scare off billions in sales with black box warnings. Good investment strategy. Bad for the people in the hospital wishing they didn't try the diabetes or weightloss drug that doesn’t acknowledge the issue that destroyed their lives!!
I’ve only scratched the surface so far but we can easily see the consumer is at an insurmountable disadvantage from all sides!!

For anyone who is going to reply that I don’t back up what I say. I will say I am disabled due to Mounjaro blocking my
Adderall, causing me to escalate my dose while trying not to lose my job exponentially increasing the accumulated side effects that had already ruined my life at or below prescribed doses. I can obviously hyperfocus too damn well. But don’t have the energy or motivation to get off this chromebook and go to my computer and rummage through my hundreds of not so organized bookmarks to satisfy you. If people have an interest in what I’ve said, I’ve already mentioned one way to look for some of the things I mentioned if they want to peer review.

But, just to be a pain in the ass ? I’ll show you how I think these GLP-1 drugs can have a positive/negative/ or neutral effect on cognition in which there does not exist a single research article connecting these things from start to finish. Even worse, I will also claim that I already found a cure for the people with the negative impact which may potentially increase those with a positive effect or add it to those who are neutral. Which has only one single data point in a study. Which is from me experimenting on myself!!
– GLP-1 and GIP analogs “accumulate” intracellular cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) as the primary method of action responsible for most of the therapeutic effects. – – They are also Trace Amine-Associated Receptor-1 (TAAR1) agonists that contribute to the therapeutic effects. TAAR1 is a modulating receptor and can be excitatory or inhibitory depending on where it is.

– cAMP activates protein kinase A (PKA)
– On one hand, cAMP in certain areas of the brain enhances neurotransmitter release and I believe enhances signaling as well. Explains how it helps multiple drugs and attenuates multiple disorders at once.

– On the other hand in other parts of the brain: cAMP-PKA opens the Hyperpolarization-activated cyclic nucleotide-gated (HCN) channels
– Pretty sure activated HCN channels then activate the voltage-gated potassium channels subtype Q (KCNQ). If not directly then are likely required for them to open too. Need to review.
– Calcium, Sodium, and Potassium ion flux resulting from the opened channels effects cell and membrane polarization and shuts down signaling in the prefrontal cortex. Which explains how these drugs can across the board interfere with many different drugs that activate on neurotransmitters in the brain even when they have different methods of action and work on different neurotransmitters. Doesn’t directly interfere with the other drugs, Just blocks the brain from working which is really bad for people dependent on their meds (like me).

–They conclude that science can’t yet predict who will have a positive, negative, or neutral effect from increased intracellular cAMP levels.

–Guanfacine is a selective postsynaptic Alpha2a adrenergic agonist. Which blocks the HCN and KCNQ channels from opening, enhancing signaling in the pre-frontal cortex.
– Guanfacine is also a TAAR1 agonist. But details would need more looking into.

– Mounjaro enhances neurotransmitter release in some places.
– Other places that shut down PFC signaling, guanfacine blocks that effect and may even reverse it making it positive as that is how guanfacine induces the therapeutic effect it is prescribed for in regards to the brain (was originally a blood pressure med that works on the HCN and KCNQ channels in the cardiovascular system).
– Positive effect plus a neutral or positive effect is likely going to be a positive or more positive net effect!

**The drug designers behind Mounjaro know GIP has an even bigger effect on increasing cAMP levels than GLP-1 which is why they added it and make it more effective than GLP-1 only meds like Ozempic. I find it hard to believe that with existing decades of cAMP research that the designers hadn’t studied cAMP and didn’t know the potential positive and negative effects in the brain. So did management decide not to acknowledge it or produce studies to tip people off?

Skipping a ton of details, a single test subject…. Already dependent and life ruined by Adderall side effects but no non amphetamine option strong enough to switch to or wanting to take a year off from work to first let my brain heal again, I started Mounjaro for after meal diabetic glucose spikes. 40 mg Adderall went up to 140mg trying to not lose my job while it blocked them from working which put me far far below my premedicated baseline. Even that stopped working at all. But Mounjaro did not stop rapid acceleration of neuro pathways and endocrine system accumulated damage. Out of work, off adderall, off mounjaro, started guanfacine. After 3 weeks, no therapeutic effect, just several negative side effects. Started Mounjaro again. In hours it reduced or stopped guanfacine side effects. In a few days, not only did mounjaro not block various psychoactive medications anymore, the combination greatly enhanced them! My psychoactive meds actually need mounjaro/guanfacine to be useful ironically while one at a time were terrible for me.

And everyone who knows mountains more about neurology than I ever could including actual an researcher I contacted who’s article greatly helped my understanding, all of whom were quick to repeatedly counterpoint with some surprisingly poorly thought out responses telling me ways I am wrong, all ghosted me and not a single one responded when I reported trying it and the details about how well it worked. For me it wasn’t an in your face moment. It was more like, hey great news, it actually worked very well! I’m nearly as surprised as you might be! Here are the details in case you want to know. Which is now an in your face response as I have been on mounjaro for. I’ll skip all my other in your face anti-everyone not a patient rants.. As anyone who read this far is probably beyond tired and wishing as much as I am for it to end.

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Re: Deb (# 18)

Lannett used to be a favorite of many people then they complained it stopped working right. They only marketed it while Elite manufactured it. Summer of 2022 Elite started selling their own stuff while Lannett had to create a new formiulary which turned out crappy. You can see how confusing this stuff can get.

Then throw in individual differences and some people can actually find crappy brands more therapeutic although most people will find things the same. Then there are the people who go back to a brand after a while and think the quality has changed. Most of the time they just don't realize they have built up more tolerance. Might be possible that our bodies can adjust a little to the excipients (inactive ingredients) making the difference when going back to a previous but now less effective medication for them. And lastly, not all batches come out exactly the same. A person very sensitive to their medication may be able to notice the differences in different batches of the medication made. There are regulations that require the active and inactive ingredient to be within a certain tolerance of the original FDA approved formulary for their generic. Not that companies haven't been caught cooking the books to sell a batch that was out of tolerance but should have been scrapped.

That is not at all the case, but I understand why people would think that. Generics often make pills with the same shapes and colors as others so sometimes they can be hard to tell apart. Took over a month before I realized I had been switched to Aurobindo from Corepharma. Same exact shape, size, and score pattern. In the morning before I turn on the lights, peach color Aurobindo looked exactly like pink Corepharma.

The actual problem is the Excipients (inactive ingredients) which have their own profiles. Amphetamine based meds are easily helped or hindered crossing the blood brain barrier depending on the excipients chosen and most generics are cheaply made and do a poor job of it.

FDA requires generics to prove bio-equivalence to the brand name drug. Skipping the technical aspects, they compare by how much of the active ingredient is in the blood for the duration of the medication within the same person. Which assumes therapeutic equivalence, but never actually tests for it. Which is why many people have described Aurobindo/Aurolife, white labeled sometimes as NorthStar brand Adderall IR generic, as "all levo". Because the dextro has a hard time passing the BBB and more of it circulating to stimulate the cardiovascular system. And why 140mg Aurobindo generic Adderall IR was less therapeutic and shorter lasting than 40mg Corepharma yet has no problem passing FDA bio-equivalence tests.

Not that I am a fan of the DEA or FDA. In regards to specific topics, like managing issues with ADHD medications they are incompetent. Other topics I'd have to give them high regards for.

FDA used to require therapeutic equivalence tests before going to market. But that was expensive and there were relatively few generic drugs on the market (for all categories of drugs). Vast majority of the time bio-equivalence predicted therapeutic equivalence. So they dropped that requirement and boom!, thousands of generics on the market increasing competition and lowering prices to the consumer. But big pharma got more greedy and started manipulating everything while our anti-government party made sure they didn't get granted authority for many things that would hold companies accountable, which is a whole other post.

Search online for the 3rd party 2015 report to congress about the DEA and their management of the amphetamine supply. Basically a laundry list of incompetence that didn't get fixed and why shortages are many times worse than they would have been if competent. I think it did mention some FDA shortcomings too.

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Re: Robert (# 4)

That may work for someone on low dose amphetamine based meds. But once you start getting mid or high doses, methylphenidate based meds are too weak. I took a 70mg Concerta just for a bump up in the afternoon. Didn't feel a thing and took a nap when it should have been at peak effect.

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