New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!? (Page 7) (Top voted first)

Hello all,

I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong.

Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc.

The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way.

I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread.

TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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Yes, i do believe they are experimenting with making the hydros abuse deturrent. Because if i take a whole one of par, it never kicks in. So now i have to take a half or 3/4 a pill at a time and crush it to make it work at all. The people adjusting the formulas today havent had the same schooling as the chemists did in the 70s. The training is poor nowadays. So we get the experimental batches for a few years, while they slowly learn. Meanwhile drs are up-precsribing, because they know the hydros dont work well enough. They dont pack the punch that they were originally designed to do. They ARE adding a filler that actually downregulates the (punch) of the medicine. The body has to break this down first before the active ingredient becomes available. I can see why this whoul make someone want to take another pill. But the more you take the less it works. So, cut it in half, crush it up, take it with a fatty meal or cranberry juice sometime helps it kick in for me. So yes they are making it abuse deturrent, only the chemists of today arent qualified enough to understand what they are doing. They didnt get that 2 extra years of playing around in the lab like their predecessors. Also, they use gluten fillers from cargil byproducts that bother some peoples stomachs.

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Watson 10/325. White oblong pill with watson 853. Sub for Nor . I know I was on 10/325 loritabs. Seems like I still hurt seems like a lot more w headaches , nausea , dizzieness . Just noticed script reads "appre" Hy / Ace 10/325 T. What does the T stand for , I don't recall seeing a T on script before Are these two meds same. I just know I dont feel well . Didnt last month neither but was under a lot if stress ..

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Go to wslmart they still have yellow norcos

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You are all correct! I've worked in purchasing for 20 years, the past 5 in the medical field. I know many doctors personally and my eldest daughter is a pharmacy tech.

Here is what ive been told directly:

1) An MD i've known for 20 years told me apron 6mo's ago prior to the change it was coming and that the active ingredient for pain was going to be removed (not completely) however.

2) Hydrocodone is split with acetaminophen.

3) The doctor said its the acetaminophen that made sense to remove. When an overdose occurs its the acetaminophen they die from upon taking too much of the med., "not the pain med itself". High doses can and will cause renal failure because their kidneys shut down. He said they don't die from the analgesic that blocks pain.

4) In my area some people have resulted to the purchase now through other means.

5) Obama phones as a way to help? Although I agree for assistance when necessary these phones have been used to track the illegal activity and drug purchase. I work for a federal funded company and a sting in my area was set up and arrests were made. (of course when you ask for assistance there are conditions, not all were for medications of course but people in need will acquire too and sometimes for the loved one in need).

5). Not the pharmacy and not the docks but they will go along with it. If they want to be in practice they have to. Some doctors will issue one time on the Meds and if more Meds need for the patient they'll give a hand prescription to walk in, people are needing more of the med now (they dont work). My mother has M.S. And my father has collapse of his disc due to horrible accident as a young mad, his leg was crushed.

6). Doc's don't want to loose their license and pharmacy will be hurt too. The pharmacies obtain their supply by manufactures like Cardinal, McKesson or Mid-Valley. Since they want their cut to put it bluntly I expect there will be a change, not in near future as we hope though. It'll take time.

7) Now the rest of it.... Carisoprodol AKA "Soma" a muscle relaxant is another on the list. So drat not changed but my mother needs this for her M.S. And about a year or so ago she had one bottle with no effect, so far just that one time. Why? I think it was an evaluation at that time, just my presumption.

Here are others that could be affected (if not already): Lorazipam, alprazolam, xanax - each of these in same family of a calm down pill used for anxiety. Possibly ambien - a sleep aid AKA as generic called Zolpidem. If you have trouble like I do over the counter Z-quil works really well (at least until gov gets hold of it too). Ut won't hurt you and not habit forming.

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I also have chronic pain due to degenerative disc n I have a tumor on my spine in the spinal cavity on my thorasic area. It's not cancer but surgery is out of the question due to the things that may occur. Anyway I had one take n off mr lower spin that was cancer so I have been on lortabs since 2004. Well I started out getting the 10/500 n they were the white fat ones. Well when they stopped maken the tabs n also stopped maken acetaminophen in 500mg tabs. I was given narco 10/325. Well I to was given white ones not Watson n i do remember the manufacture o f them but they were ok well then I was given the yellow ones n I could tell the difference they were just like taken the big fat lortabs. Now for the past 5 months I been getting the white Watsons n like others they only make me sleepy n really don't touch the pain. I'm on fentnyl patches 50mcg/hr. The patches really work well n the narco is suppose to help with the sharp pain. Well the wr sons suck. I asked my pharmacy to get the yellow ones n everytime they tell me they can only get what they order from the place they get theirs from. I'm keep asking bc I know the yellow ones are still being made. I know several people that get the yellow ones n hey use WM pharmacy n the pharmacy in WD. I know Walgreens n CVS only use Watsons n the other off brand. I go to a mom n pop pharmacy bc their the only ones that if they only have two boxes of my patches they will give me them then the next day r two I'll go get my other box. Well all the big name pharmacies will not do this they will make u wait till they have them all n it sucks. N e way. Y'all they are still make n the yellow ones don't listen to the pharmacies that say they no longer make yellow ones.

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Thursday, Sept. 24. I took my pills, hydrocodone 7.5 because they weren't working at all. The company name Watson. My doctor agreed they didn't look right. The drugs store would not work with me on a exchange. The pills that did work were hard and difficult to break. The others fell apart easily. I called Watson and spoke the the Quality Assurance person and told her everything. She said "Oh they must have put old pills from a shelf and mixed them in with the others. I was mad. I now have to wait 3 weeks before I can legally get a new prescription from my doctor. Watson has been sold. I am changing pharmacies to one that carries a different brand. Big legal case against Watson. Try and call the pharmacies before you see your doctor and find the one best for you. You must tell your doctor. I am in pain and cry and the phar. companies don't care. Oh the pharmacist said when pills get old they loose their pain power and I basically have bad pills.

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I have too only had the yellow Norco (Qualitest) and then CVS quit with them and went to white ones made by Milkcoft (something like that) and now Walgreens (I hate Walgreens) use a crappy white one too made by Watson. None of the white compare to the yellow. I have posted before and received no reply.. And am still in horrible pain. Mostly the headaches are wearing me down. I live in the LA area and don't even know how to go about asking the smaller pharmacies which brand they use because they look at you like your a complete drug addict!! None of the pharmacy techs will hold a discussion about it?!?! They say there is no difference (they ones that have spoke with me)!! I am calling BS!! I am making an appointment with my pain specialist and asking to switch my medication. I can't do this anymore. Any ideas what medication would be equivalent to 10/325? I have been on them since 2007. I have a spinal injury that I also do epidurals every 2 months. If I knew a pharmacy in the LA area (La Habra, La Mirada, Whitier, Fullerton- ANYWHERE) I would just switch. But I haven't received any feedback or support? Please help me out with this if your have any knowledge.

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I just checked on Internet to see if Watson has changed the inactive ingredients or what is going on. Your post could have been written by me. It could have been written by my daughter. I would have thought it was my imagination, but when I telephoned her with my concerns, she said "ME, TOO!".

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I called and talked with Qualitest ( they make the yellow ones) they said they are still making Narco and they have plenty. No shortages, no back orders.
Watson= sleepy..no pain relief
Qualitest= yellow, not sleepy, pain relief.
For the life of me I don't know what the reason is other than $$$$. It costs less..So pharmacies don't care about the pain...they just want your money.

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I have been seeing pain management since 2009- my dr couldn't deal with my spine injury. As for talking to someone at pharmacies- that's the problem (at least where I live)!!! The shut down, look at you like your up to something and then refuse your business. The top two prior posts- Ditto!!! I too could have wrote & said the exact same thing. My sister should me a small pharmacy last week that I am going to try and see how it goes. What I do know - not taking another white crap Norco again. Question- I know Qualitest. But Norco the brand, non generic is yellow too? I have only had generic. I am going to ask my pain dr for name specific. If he is not willing- change my meds.

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you have to call the pharmacies and ask what dealers do you get. I recently herd they are taking Watson off the shelf. When Watson QA person told me they mix old pills in with new ones it made me angry. So being without legitimate medince for 3 months I have been in bed. Not even going in my backyard. Too much pain. I don't care about anything. I see my doctor next week, .I am going to a different pharmacy, They carry Qualistes and another brand, not Watson. Watson got bought out for 365 billion dollars,must be nice.

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Qualitest works in 45 minutes, white 10-325 Mallinkrodt takes 2 hrs, lasts 1 and 1/2 hours. What in the world is going on here.

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You are not alone. I remain shocked that this has gone on for as long as it has . You would think the pharmacists would be behind the patient and forcing a change . The only Narco that works at all for me and my mom (both surgery related injuries) is by Qualitest.
I can tell you there is definitely something going on between big pharma and the government.

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Ken, you won't find a dr that will put you back on that high dose. Drs are now going by the FDA Guidelines of 120 mg Morphine/Morphine Equivalent Daily. And there are plans in motion for the 120 mg to be reduced to 90 mg.

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Ditto. Found Watson 10/325 hydrocodone totally ineffective. Had to go to true Vicoden.

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If a generic says that it has 10 mg of an active ingredient, it can have 8 mg- 12 mg of that active ingredient. With brands if it says 10 mg, 10 mg is what it has. There are also different fillers used which affects how the medications are absorbed and effect you. I seems that the manufacturers are leaning towards the 8 mg when it comes to hydrocodone combination medications. I think that up until the past few years they may have been leaning more towards the 12 mg. That would explain it, along with the varies fillers that they use.

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Ken, when is the last time that UVA put in writting 360 Roxicodone Immedicate Release 12 a day and 60 mg Oxycontin Er 2 a day, 60 a month? The FDA Guidelines say not more than 120 mg Morphine/Morphine Equivalent Daily. I seriously doubt that you will find any dr anywhere that will prescribe you 60 mg Oxycontin ER twice a day and 360 Roxicodone 12 a day again. The new dr is jjust going by the FDA Guidelines.

The Yellow Vicodin along with many other medications had the dye that gave them a certain color removed because of common allergies that many people have several years back. So if you specifically asked for yellow vicodin after the color was removed, they no longer made them because they are now white.

If you gave a pharmacist a prescription for Norco 10 mg with 500 mg Tylenol (Norco 10/500) close to Jan 2014, they might have said that they no longer made it, which is correct. But, what they didn't tell you is that they still make Norco 10 mg it just no longer has 500 mg Tylenol. It is important to pay attention to details.

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I am referring to following the laws on medications. How all these changes are taking place. I would like very much to educate myself on the here & now as to what's happening with out medications and anything else that pertains to chronic pain sufferers

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U know if u research pharmaceutical companies. They do make mistakes and have made pills too strong before as well.some companies aren't even fda regulated the way they should be. Take ur meds to a compounding pharmacy and have them checked.

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sergio, it is not a good idea to take 5 Norco at a time. Even if the amount of Hydrocodone is less than 10 mg, it also contains Acetaminophen 325 mg. It is dangerous to take more than 1,000 mg of Acetaminophen in a 6 hours period.

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