Ketamine For Depression? (Page 4) (Top voted first)

It was recommended by the members of a separate thread that one be started that directly relates to ketamine and it's use to treat depression.

If anyone besides myself would like to discuss it's use as a treatment for depression, feel free to post your questions, answers and experiences here.

This thread is an offshoot of a related one that discussed a treatment of Scopolamine for depression.

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Glad to hear you are fighting the good fight John!

I know your struggle. Give it time with the inter-nasal.

I myself am not sure it will give me the relief that I experienced via the infusion, but I am having some success. Chances are, we might just find the right dose and dosing regimin and if so, in the long run inter-nasal could potentially reduce the cost of our treatments. If it doesn't work for you, you can always go for the infusion.

All the best to you fellow traveler ;-)

Michael

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"lahelp, can you tell us what Dr. you went through to get the infusion in SD?"

David Feifel (here's a link with his contact info: psychiatry.ucsd.edu/faculty/dfeifel.html) - he's a very caring and good man.

"That's great news that it's working for you. Please keep us updated on your progress/regression."

Will do.

"As for me, I'm still on the Ketamine nasal spray. I was just about to give up on it. As a last ditch effort I went ahead with a no

holds barred approach to dosage and kept increasing the max sprays each time I dosed. I'm up to 10 sprays at night, 5 in each nostril.

I'm dizzy and light-headed for about 40 minutes but after my head is clear. I no longer experience the headaches that were present when

I first started K. So far this feeling only lasts for about a day so I'm going to be trying out different dosing protocols in

conjunction with the LDN to try to get the "normal" feeling to last. For now, I'm doing the K spray every couple days, and the 4.5mg LDN

daily."

Are you doing this on your own or at the instruction of a doctor? I hope it's the latter and, if it's not, that you consider having it be. Before I was able to set up my infusion in SD, I started researching alternate means of administration including intranasal and found out it would be easy to have a compounding pharmacy fill a prescription for nasal spray from my psychiatrist (who was open to writing me one).

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Em-
Have you considered trying LDN first?
Have you ever heard of or researched Endogenous Opoid Deficiency Syndrome, aka Endorphin Deficiency Syndrome?
The pain doc in so. cal that prescribes ketamine nasal spray also prescribes LDN.
Since there is no physician in AZ that will prescribe Ketamine for pts with Refractory MDD (that I'm aware of), and I can't afford to go to a doc in CA, I'm trying LDN (plus a couple supplements, in addition to my daily Rx regimen).
I've been taking LDN for about 9 days now; I'm feeling a bit better each day, and have been able to decrease my Adderall from 60mg/day to 40mg/day without missing it at all. Like I stated, I just feel a little better each day.
Today I was actually out of bed before 10am, instead of the usual 1:00-3:00pm! I've folded laundry that's been sitting in the basket since last Friday and have done a few other things around the house that I've been putting off ad infinitum.

I don't know if LDN would help you, but it may be worth a try... and it's fairly inexpensive.

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I had similar problems with NIH. They were encouraging and I sent them my medication list and did a long telephone screening. Then they wanted more records. Then they said they made an error )oversight) and told me I was not eligible. Not a great thing to do to depressed people - get their hopes up and then dash them!

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Just a quick update on my progress with the nasal ketamine.

After roughly 3 months on the ketamine nasal spray, I have decided to quit. I was administering the spray 1-2x a week in various doses, usually increasing the dose higher than the previous dose, in hopes that I would experience any type of antidepressant reaction. The most I'd feel not depressed and actually have positive and reassuring thoughts was during the ketamine high. These feelings of self-assurance and self-motivation were short lived and never carried over to the next day. I'd just feel dysthymic throughout the week until my next dose.

After a week passed since my last dose I felt the withdrawal symptoms: headache, irritability, lethargy. Rather than ween myself off the ketamine, I decided to rough it out. The withdrawal symptoms passed in about 3 days. I'm still a bit lethargic and tire around 3-5pm, requiring a nap.

I was hoping to feel how I felt during the pre-depression days, but that never happened. I wanted to want to do things, smile, laugh, enjoy life, etc. At least that's what I was expecting to happen when I first decided to pursue the Ketamine treatment. I guess I was looking for a miracle cure, like many of us are. After reading and hearing about the successful cases, I had my hopes aimed pretty high that I could take this drug and be the same person that I remember myself to be.

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I was involved in a study in Hoffman Estates, IL at Alexian Bros. Mental health Center using Ketamine infusions. I was the first pt. in the study, so no way was I going to get placebo.

They are very nice and caring, esp. the nurse, Dan, who accompanied me during the infusions. The first 3 weeks I received infusions 3x per week. Didn't feel that much different, but by the end of the week, it was like a miracle, just as I've read. I have had TRD for 17 years, tried everything except ECT. Nothing works.

All the people close to me said I was like a different person, and I was- the REAL me. My sense of humor, sexual response, cognition, optimism, hope for the future, all BACK! The suicidal ideation, guilt, self-loathing, pessimism, hopelessness, helplessness - GONE! For about a month and a half, it was a wonderful life! I have always been good with words, but I had forgotten how good.

Gradually the infusions tapered off, I noticed that after a week, the negative thinking, the emptiness, sadness and pain were back with a vengeance. Back to my normal, miserable self and I can't live like this much longer.

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Pam, where are you getting treated with the Ketamine? How often will they treat? I don't know why intra-dermal wouldn't work, it will be absorbed by the body and quickly. What dosage? I would think that the amount of the med would be too large of volume to do intra dermal. I am an RN, but I don't know everything lol.

Thanks for the info.

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OK, since I live in the Chicago area I called Dr. Steven Best's office today. I have had depression/anxiety my entire life; I am in my late 50's and it has worsened dramatically over the last 6 months, to the point where I am truly desperate; the anxiety is AWFUL and today I learned my psych has no experience with ketamine. The previous posts are correct, Best's ketamine treatment is very expensive, in fact I had to put a deposit on the initial consult. But the initial consult is this Monday!! I told the receptionist I also have chronic migraines and she said they treat many migraineurs. I am a little freaked that I got an appointment so quickly but it can't hurt to check it out. They do the infusions, which if all works out, I could have the first infusion next Thursday. I plan to go over all this with my psych and therapist, because I am concerned about possible hallucinations, having had "bad trips" back in the "good old days" primarily via LSD & mescaline. At Best's office they have an anesthesiologist who adminsters and stays with you, at least that's what they told me, but - does anyone know much about possible hallucinations or other bad side effects? It's probably in this blog somewhere but I don't see it. Thanks for all the info, this is a great service.

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Well, I do not want to scare you or anything but I will attempt to explain what I felt on my infusion. It was a sense of extreme depersonalization , and extremely disturbing to me. It is impossible to explain outside of saying that I felt a sense of profundity, and pretty much immobilized or paralyzed. Visual hallucinations as well. A sense of timelessness but not in a good way. It scared the s*** out of me. I hated it and it was impossible to explain what I felt to others. Granted this seems to be very much the exception though. I have never seen anyone else describe this. But I hate hate hate ketamine after that experience b/c on top of that it did nothing to help my depression. Not trying to be a wet blanket but wanted to share

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Yes, I actually just posted about Dr. Brooks. He is so kind and thoughtful and keeps his prices reasonable compared to others. He just moved his office to downtown manhattan. Try calling on his cell phone- it's easier to get through that way- 516-662-1655

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Hi everyone. I want to first thank whoever began this thread. I found it after googling doctors prescribing Ketamine for depression in Chicago because I've been battling treatment resistant depression for 8 years. (EDIT: I realized that my message was getting crazy long, so I put the rest of the details below.) My question is - can anyone steer me in the direction of a responsible doctor providing ketamine infusions in the Chicago area? Reading through the thread I found posts naming several dangerous scam artist "doctors" to avoid who charge exorbitant fees, etc. I'm grateful for these warnings, as the last thing I need is to get taken advantage of by someone preying on desperate people. But the name of a legitimate and well-intentioned doctor would be even more appreciated. I don't see a way for anyone to contact me here, so if you can help, please email me at {edited for privacy}. Thank you.

Background con't: A laundry list of medications and a fair amount of talk therapy have proven unsuccessful so far. Long story short - at this point I have no choice but to explore more dramatic or experimental options, meet all the criteria for ketamine treatment 10x over, and feel that this is a matter of life and death. I found a current clinical trial and "passed" their screening process/requirements with flying colors (not exactly a happy moment). The problem is that the nearest study location is 800 miles away. I simply don't have the energy or finances to afford the many visits required over a period of months. That's why I've come here.

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@ Renee, Keller, Blueheelercd, Catpower, I go to I psych in Chicago that I like a lot. He has used ketamine infusions in the past. He said they were in conjunction with ECT so I don't know if he does them stand-alone, but he uses a lot of med and other combos that some doctors haven't even heard of. He also was aware of a GLYX-13 trial ( I think) that he told me about in Evanston so he may have more info on that.

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@Fletch You really need to find a proxy for your medications. Preferably a doctor or pharmacist who can responsibly store and administer your meds to you. I hope at the least you have a US doctor who is doing the prescription for you so you are covered. I know I do have medications I have to purchase overseas due to price, but I have my regular doctors prescribe them to me.

My concern is both legal and moral, you have already said that you have become addicted to ketamine, if you are taking it in larger than therapeutic doses then I urge you to find another method of administration now.

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All - please be EXTREMELY careful about buying GLYX-13 on the internet. There is only one company legitimately manufacturing it (Naurex), and having worked in the pharmaceutical industry for 23 years I am certain the ingredients and directions for its manufacture are top secret. It does sound like the clinical trials are going extremely well but please don't endanger your health by trying to get it before it's FDA-approved. It's your choice but whatever you buy on the internet now is virtually certain to be fake.
Instead I would consider trying Namenda (memantine), which is (like ketamine) a NMDA receptor antagonist. It is FDA approved for Alzheimer's but is being tested for depression, anxiety, migraines, and a host of other psychological problems. I am currently trying lithium but Namenda is next on my list!
You could also try getting into a GLYX-13 clinical trial. There is at least one going on in the Chicago area with multiple sites. Check clinicaltrials.gov.
Good luck to all, and as Frasier says "Good mental health"!

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I've been using intranasal k for about 2 months and I find it interesting. It cuts OCD symptoms down as well as negative thinking.

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Hey all, I haven't had time to read through all the new posts, but I wanted to write a an update. After finding out the GLYX-13 trial in Chicago was recruiting through this forum and pre-qualifying or whatnot over the phone I went in for all the testing and evaluation. There was some debate over whether ADHD and anxiety precluded me from the trial but after talking it over with the "medical monitor" they decided it was ok since they were kind of secondary to the depression. It was a long day. You definitely end up feeling kind of weird. At least I did. Having to dwell on the history of your depression and be the center of attention, poked and prodded, etc. But obviously it'll be well worth it if it works. So after qualifying (my blood test results are coming in tomorrow, so barring something weird there I'm in) I now have an appointment for 06/20 to receive my first dose. They do have some pretty strict requirements for the trial but if you're interested in it I would recommend emailing the study coordinator listed on clinicaltrials.gov and finding out if there's one in your area. The Chicago one is not listed, for example, but is obviously recruiting.

On to the only major bummer - I think someone had written that there is no placebo in this trial and everyone receives the drug. That must be a different study because this one is controlled with placebo. While I still have reservations about it being experimental, I really hope I get the actual drug. My feeling is if I don't feel any effect after the first 2 or 3 doses (sounds like most people benefit on the 1st dose) I will go ahead and try the Ketamine with Dr. Fanelli in East Chicago. I don't want to post information online that I'm not supposed to, but since I found his name on here I figure it's ok. After calling I did confirm that he administers Ketamine and his fees are much more reasonable than what I saw posted about Dr. Best on here (albeit still really expensive if you need to go in weekly, which is how it sounds from everyone's posts). Of course, he could be a total quack, too, so it's not like I'm recommending him. But all I've gained from the Ketamine studies is that if it's administered responsibly *with the correct dose* the side effects at the time are minimal and manageable for most people. I have to say I have some reservations about this clinical trial after one of the owners of the study center, after I brought up Ketamine as an alternative if I didn't qualify, suggested it "causes psychosis for days all the time" and completely discredited it's antidepressant effects. Sorry, but I much prefer facts to scare tactics from medical professionals... Anyway, I will post again once I've received my first dose of whatever I get and let you know how it goes.

The only obvious question I just realized I forgot to ask the study people last week was what happens if you do get the real thing and it works (a big if) - do they keep administering it to you somehow when the study ends or is that it? I'm not one to be very hopeful, but on the off chance this thing actually helps it would be unfortunate to then lose access to it while you wait on the FDA to take their sweet time approving it... I'll get the answer to this on Thursday. Fingers crossed!

P.S. If there's anyone else on here trying the GLYX-13 I'd love to hear from you.

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@Renee congrats on getting into the GLYX-13 trial!! I am the one who was told by a study manager that every one in the phase 2 trial will get the drug, it's just a matter of how often. Just to be certain, the trial number I looked into is NCT01684163. There are 3 arms - 1) placebo; 2) low-dose GLYX-13 (5mg/kg); and 3) high-dose GLYX-13 (10mg/kg). All of this info is on clinicaltrials.gov. I was told they will be rating people using the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale (HDRS-17; google it) to see how depressed they are and using that to determine which dose to give, at least initially. I really believe you will not get "stuck" in a placebo-only arm; at least this is what I was told. Good luck and keep us posted! :)

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Hey everyone. Apologies in advance for the ridiculously long messages. So I had my first dose of the Glyx-13 this afternoon. @catpower Yep, we're talking about the same trial. I asked quite a few questions about the placebo and they reiterated that some people get it (saline), while others get the GLYX-13 either at a 5 mg/kg or 10 mg/kg dose as you said. It says the same on clinicaltrials.gov. My understanding is it's a 50/25/25 % breakdown, but I may have misunderstood that. Will ask next week. They were adamant that as it's a double-blind study no one at the research center has the slightest clue what any participant is getting. So it seems anyone can get either, regardless of their "score", or it would taint the study (the staff listen to you take your depression scale questionnaire, and it wouldn't be a tough guess from there).

That being said, I do think I got the real thing. Being generally skeptical and pessimistic, it really surprises me to report that I actually feel quite a bit better just in the several hours since receiving the injection. I don't want to get overly excited so soon, for all I know it's a placebo effect and will pass (there's that negativity) but I can't deny the fact that something is different. I didn't get out of the research center until 6 PM and I still managed to do a couple of things I have not had the will or energy to accomplish in months. The only negative thing I can report is like a slightly nervous energy (hard to explain & not like my usual anxiety).

The summary: So far, so good. I can't speak for other trial locations, but the staff at the Chicago one have been very flexible with scheduling, and really seem to try and make you comfortable throughout the process. If you're not on drugs (I watched a woman leave after testing positive for Cocaine today…) and treatment resistant depression is your primary problem it's worth giving them a call. The phone # is (773) 282-9845. For those that don't qualify or don't have a trial in their location - don't give up. Glyx-13 isn't the only med of its kind and there will be more trials!

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@Keller I can see why my previous message may have sounded like they're breaking protocol, I guess I should've been more specific - because they strike me as very by the book. It says in the trial protocol even on clinicaltrials.gov that "Based on the investigator and Naurex medical monitor's clinical judgment, subjects with eating disorders, obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD), panic disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and generalized anxiety disorders secondary to major depressive episodes (MDEs) are permitted." While ADHD is not included in that sentence, I obviously disclosed the ADD medication I take daily upfront and they made sure it was on the allowed list of meds before even letting me come in for an evaluation. I don't know what the criteria is for which meds are permitted or which aren't, but since my ADD med was allowed, it stands to reason that being medicated for ADD is not immediately a disqualifying factor. There's a medical monitor overseeing the entire trial who has to decide eligibility on a case by case basis. While I may have a longstanding diagnosis of ADHD, it's been such a minor part of my problems and I think the monitor understood that. When it comes to anxiety, they decide whether it disqualifies you, as it says in the protocol. My guess would be that if they eliminated *anyone* who experiences some level of chronic anxiety, they'll have a hard time finding enough people for the study. There's a reason the depression rating scale(s) have questions pertaining to anxiety too - it often goes hand in hand with depression. I didn't know any of this before I called the center or went in for my evaluation.

@Blueheelercd I'm sorry to hear Riluzole didn't work for you. $1500 for a month's supply seems like quite a lot. I'm assuming you paid out of pocket? It seems like @andy is right that the patent expired 2 days ago. Hopefully now it will be cheaper? Are you still on it @andy? My interest in it lies mainly in the fact that I found out none of the subjects in the GLYX-13 trial have access to the GLYX-13 once the study's over. While up to 17 weeks depression-free (some people get disqualified after the 7th week depending on their improvement/non-improvement, not clear which) sounds wonderful, going back to square one at the end would be a pretty hard pill to swallow...

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I am an RN too.
I had no anesthesiologist either.
My doctor stayed with me and monitored my BP.
Do you want to start the new thread? For GLYX-13????

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