Ketamine For Depression? (Page 35) (Top voted first)

It was recommended by the members of a separate thread that one be started that directly relates to ketamine and it's use to treat depression.

If anyone besides myself would like to discuss it's use as a treatment for depression, feel free to post your questions, answers and experiences here.

This thread is an offshoot of a related one that discussed a treatment of Scopolamine for depression.

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I had to call my ketamine pain management Los Angeles specialist, Dr. Prager about what he knows about scopolamine. He said it was just another alternative to ketamine, but recommended the less risky and more widely approved the procedure.

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To: Caiguise,

Hello, and first I want to thank you as well for all the informative information you always have to offer people in pain, depressed and you do so going through your own issues you rarely discuss. You are very intelligent and more so than anything you are well versed at the ways of talking to people. MD in training is very smart as well however I have known you on this support page longer. You made me want to choke up speaking to "Mary" and comforting her and you need to know that level of comfort does not stop at Mary. It helps me, and I am sure it help so many people that read these posts. So, with what I just said I think I need to ask you sir, How are YOU doing? How are things going with you while it seems you do so much for so many you do it with tact that helps them and quite often I wonder are your support mechanisms that strong or do you have educated folks like MDin training and others that sustain you through the crap you are undertaking. Regardless, this may seem like a smoke blowing tournament but its not. It is simply an observation of someone (you ) that really helps people in here yet I wonder who really helps you. I wonder if it is just your strong mental and social skills that enable you to do what you do but you get my vote for some nobel peace prize for the kind words, the true words, the intelligence, the experiences that you are kind enough to help us all get through this thing we call life. Please understand I am very sincere about this. I mean it. And like all the others it seems Aristotle was right by saying people have agendas for what they do. I guess I am the same. I just don't want it to be that way but I can't get an understandable answer from doctors. MD in training I think has predisposed thoughts he is entitled to have and while his answers are very clever and smart, I guess his irritation with or my own stupidity get s in the way. What I wanted to ask was this: The first time I heard the word ketamine was 2.5 years ago when my doctor prescribed it for pain. It was only later ( 4 or 5 days ) that I realized this "not being good enough" and this "not fitting in" stuff dissipated. For the first time in my life my depression lifted. I was amazed. My doctor put me on 50 cc of 10% ketamine nasal 1 a month. Since the very first time I ran out of the spray exactly two weeks into the month.

I am not intentionally taking over what I am prescribed but obviously it happens. I spoke to a kind young man person to person at the Portland Ketamine Clinic and he is smart and I think a wonderful doctor. I just can't afford to go to Oregon and pay that much however he referred me to a kind man in Charleston SC that was as described,,,helpful, kind, compassionate, willing to help. A great guy. All the while I would never "doctor shop for I wanted to keep my 3 doctors informed as to my treatment. Since I cannot afford the prices of infusions and my script is helping me for 2 weeks of a month to me it would seem by doubling my nasal spray to 100cc a month would solve my problem. My like so many folks life is hanging on to this. The Charleston doctor said he would help with hardship costs. But still. All I am begging is to have the depression and pain free state of mind to get my business going again and my problems to me would be solved, my wife would be happy again and not plague me with her guilt trips of my disease. I was use to making a very large amount of money until business and health went bad. Having been with the Justice Dept. I did not want nor my pride could accept disability. Bad move. Now each morning I wake up wanting to do myself in from pain originally and immediately the thought for the first time in my life I am allowing my wife or anyone for that matter to help me or take care of me. My wife does not deserve to have her life ruined by my diseases. What I wanted to know which would be my cheapest way out is this. Would it be plausible to get my pain doctor to double the amount he gives me as instead of two weeks that would last me for a month??? That would eliminate having to get infusions, or spending money I do not have. Is 100cc or 10% an unheard of amount or something or am I asking too much. I just know I have never increased the amount since 2.5 years ago I was taking. It has always ran out in two weeks. And I am fine for 3 or 4 days and then wham. The spiral of depression sneaks back in like a fox stealing chickens in the middle of the night. Would you if you were in my shoes talk to my doctor and make that request for I am at the end of my rope. For some reason I trust you implicitly and I would so much appreciate your input if your time allows. Thank you again. Hope to hear from you when you can.

Mark

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Hi, I just wanted to post that I received my 3 more ketamine infusions and was prescribed the capsules for at home. I am literally a different person. I finally know what people are talking about when they say they are happy. I feel at peace for the very first time in my life. Dr. Brooks I truly believe is a Saint and has most definetly saved my life. I was supposed to be moving from NY to NC. Had rented a place for $350.00 a month including utilities in Little Switzerland, NC and everything just fell through. I truly believe if this kind of life changing dissappointment had happened before I had the infusions and capsules I would not be writing this now. I am able to say to myself something better will come along and still feel at peace. I thank all that have helped save my life with your support and help before I had the infusions. God Bless you all and if you are finding out about the ketamine infusions for the first time and have suicidal depression, PTSD, OCD, please dont give up until you find a way to get these infusions. I can truly say Dr. Brooks cares much more about helping his patience than he does about the money. I owe Dr. Brooks my life and all that have helped me here. Mary

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To Caiguise: Truthfully, I have been so very fortunate compared to many and I am grateful for that. You have educated me regarding this so much thanks could never be enough to properly thank you for all of the compassionate help, education, willingness to share your experience as you have with me and just to let you know you are what I have always called people in my life one of the most empathetic individuals I have ever met , not to mention your kindness, your caring and actually using what I would call your God given gift to help and educate people like me puts your right up there in my "angel lists". People like you are special and to see what your words, your encouragement, your eloguent distribution of the kindness to each and every struggling person ( self included ) somehow needs to get your awarded the nobel prize for "Giving a damn about their fellow man" I rarely see this in people anymore but that is all that I have EVER AND I MEAN EVER seen come from you. Thanks from my self and a lot of others that you have and continue to extend yourself so selflessly to help other people that some one needed to stand up and say, Hey, Do you not realized who took time out of their schedule and life to actually help you.

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CAIGUISE,
What I was trying my very best to get out was THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH for all the help you have been to so many and myself. I owe you a great big thank you.
Mark

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Hey Mary,

Perhaps I can save you a small amount of research time as that is one avenue I have looked into. The one thing I was curious of from you was how long was it before the infusions wore off. And you said you were followed up with the "pills"? That was the first I had heard about the "pills"? Have you asked your doc about the "nasal spray" that seems to work well, ( at times ) for me. Also, a very smart person in this room told me that if you went say, a day with and a day without the effects would work better. This is sort of true. (for me anyway). As for your question I am not the most educated at what you are asking but unless you can go there from the states and actually "see" what you are getting then I would be "way more" that fearful to try mailing or sending anyone any money. There are more people scamming about this on different sites that it makes me sick. When you think about it they are taking advantage of people just wanting a little better life and "in my opinion" a life that a great deal of folks take for granite each and every day. In my existence my need extends from a pain issue that after a few days of taking it then I realized this cloud of sadness that has been hanging over me since my Father was killed 41 years ago. I am sorry to hear of your pain and while I would never try to pretend I understand what you or anyone is going through my good wishes for wellness and happiness go out to you. I wish there was a way of emailing through this site but I do not know how to accomplish that. Perhaps I could tell you more about what you were thinking about. Regardless, I would not do anything unless you had it in your hand before releasing funds. A friend of mine in similar situations to some of us is trying something new to achieve what you are speaking of. If he is successful then somehow I will let you know. I feel this time he will be for the trouble he has gone through. I think it is a sickening to learn how you feel after those super expensive infusions. I understand a doctor's need to make money, the responsibility, the insurance, the liabilities etc. however it sort of ticks me off that they took a product that does not cost very much at all and turned it into something that is very expensive to do. The last people in the world that should be subjected to that type of "depression mill mentality" are the folks like ourselves ( speaking for me) that cannot afford this treatment that the insurance providers wouldn't a bit more pay for than a cheese cracker in hell. I just hope that in the very near future they (the drug makers) are able to come up with some type of nasal or whatever form of introducing it to ones system in a safe fashion, that will help folks. And wipe out that "hopeless" feeling of not getting better or continued ability to fight off that depression. Sorry for the novel. Its just I could sort of hear in your words what you are saying and try to keep the faith. And don't get ripped off with what you are saying. Hope that helps a bit. Take care of YOU.

mark

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@caiguise, found myself thinking of you during my prayers. I wanted to update and see how you were doing also. I now have Dr. Brooks and my local pain doctor working together to get me better. The infusions for me last 6 days. Dr. Brooks had increased my capsules and we forgot to order more and I was out for 5 days. I didn't realize that they were working until I went with out. My pain doctor has just added ketamine torches. Little candies you put under your tongue to dissolve. To me these seem to have the best delivery other than an actual injection. I know if I could have a booster I would feel better than this as trying to get to the right dose is tiring. I have to admit though I have not thought about killing myself and my thoughts are not compusively on my pain. I'd like to get the word out to more people like us about the torches. I really think my doctor is onto something with these. I give this site permission to share my email address with you but don't know what their procedure is except for saying that it is ok to do so. Was curious if you are also an artist. Now that I am feeling a bit better my gratitude you and the other that helped me stay alive is eternal. I see Gods purpose in you as I know it is just not me that you have saved and given hope to. You are always in my prayers although I wish I could do more. Your friend, Mary

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Dear Mark,

Thank you so much for replying so quickly. In answer to your questions about my infusions. For me personally they last about 6 days. Dr. Brooks who did the infusions in NYC prescribes me the capsules. I also am working with my local pain doctor who treat me for MS, Fibromyalgia, pain from PTSD and my newest Complex Regional Pain Syndrome which happened to me from an assault on myself from my 24 year old daughter last January. My pain doctor came up with the idea of using troches. They are little ketamine candies that are placed under the tongue and absorbed Into your body that way. I find them simply amazing though the dose is still to low and will need to be adjusted. At present I am taking 300mg capsules 3 times a day along with 5 mg troches 3x a day. I still can't disaccociate like during the infusions but also thinking that maybe that is not as necessary as I originally thought as I am no longer in danger of taking my life. Maybe this is as good as it gets without the infusions. I will take the suggestion of using the medication on an every other day trial basis to see if maybe my answer might lie with that protocol. Thank you for that. Btw I live in Rockland County, NY. I am also working with CRPS Partners in Pain who help people get treatments such as the infusions. I am 4th on the list but that could still be some time away. I know others will read this so if someone else is suffering and has Complex Regional Pain Syndrome or RSD, they are not a large charity but they will do all they are capable to do to help you and give you some hope. I also think that besides being a great source of information that these message boards also are a great form of support. In doing that it would help to have the names of known scammers so we can keep it a truly safe place for information and greatly needed support. Thank you again Mark and I am so sorry for your loss. That's a pain I do not know yet and wish you didn't either.

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Hi Cathy

Thanks so much for your detailed post on your experience with ketamine. I'm currently writing a book on the use of ketamine for depression with the hope of raising funds for further research and I would like your permission to quote you in the book. I'm not sure how best to contact you concerning this so perhaps you can respond on this forum otherwise I am happy for the moderator to give you my address.

Best wishes - Steve

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Dear Caiguise:

Thank you for your reply, I am praying they get your thyroid straightened out real quick. I started to do extremely bad again, with this loss of a dear lifetime friend and my dad being diagnosed with bladder cancer and mom just biopsied for thyroid cancer. I contacted Dr. Brooks and he had me come in for a 4 hour infusion yesterday. Today I woke up a new person again like I did after the previous infusions. It's raining out but the sun is shining in my soul. I had been literally walking around with the supplies I needed to take my life. I threw everything out this morning. I'm tired but I am truly happy I am still here. I thank you with all my heart for the amazing help and hope you have given me. In a way I feel we are lucky people because the world looks so beautiful to me today just looking out the window and know people that have not experienced what we have will take for granted the beauty we are now able to see. I would appreciate if you had the time being able to talk to you more often and more privately. I'm going to try and figure out the directions to share my email adress with you if you wouldn't mind. I feel very connected to you and have great admiration for you also. Will be keeping you in my prayers always, Mary

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Thank you Mark.

To folks for whom Ketamine has worked, are you happy with the use of intranasal route/tabs/capsules/torches indefinitely until booster treatments are needed? Has anybody done some research on the long term use of Ketamine on the liver/bladder? I'm definitely leaning towards getting Ketamine but wanted to know the full spectrum before signing up for it.

Many thanks in advance for your input.

Regards

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IRON, One thing to know is I am no medical person whatsoever as if you could not tell from my typing. Secondly, you are the best researcher their is so keep up the good work. What I did want to say to you was that I have never been able to afford the ketamine treatments. The most I have to work with are what my doctor prescribes me in a nasal spray. It does not last long but looking at it all I think that is my way of doing things since there is no way I can afford to pay a doctor some 3000.00 out of pocket for infusions of a drug that has little costs to it. Im not saying that the doctors or the infusions are not worth it. I know they need to make a living too. Its just that the infusions doctors I have spoken with are very kind and knowledgeable however they are so out of my price bracket, it s beyond me even considering at this point. To me I think that having it over the long term or whatever the recommended amount for X amount of months or until you get your stuff back under control to me seems more affordable but that is me. Plus they are giving me this for pain. I am the one that got them to up it a bit for it brought a 40 year depression under control in a week. Go figure. Sometimes it can be upsetting to know that there is a drug or compound that has the qualities "in my eyes" to really help and you have to go through the ends of the earth to find help with it. Finally , I think I have. Good luck to you. Thought this may could be of help to you.

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Ironsheikh,

I have never had ketamine infusions, only a liquid that I take either orally or with an aspirator (to take nasally). Our medical system in Canada makes in-clinic/hospital treatments like infusions inaccessible, so the few people I know of who are prescribed ketamine take it orally (most as capsules made by a compounding pharmacy). The upside is that the cost is far lower, the downside is that most people have to take a dose twice a week, or every three days. I have taken it for over a year (with a gap of a few months) with no unexpected side effects. The only weird thing is that it stopped working once, probably because the pharmacy did not compound it properly. I switched to a more experienced pharmacy and the problem went away.

Regarding long-term risks. I generally avoid taking meds that have not been on the market for a few years, and tried finding out what I could before starting treatment. Ketamine is used medically as a field anesthetic because it does not depress breathing, and for children because it also has a generally calming effect. I think it is still on the World Health Organization list of core medicines (these tend to be long-used, inexpensive meds with few problematic side effects, that are considered the basic necessities for a medical system). It you look on Medscape for articles on ketamine and risk/safety you will probably find what I did, that the information out there is on long term use in addicts, it does not cover lower-dose and less frequent use for medical purposes. From what I remember, there is a small risk of bladder problems (I don't know if this occurs at lower levels, but be aware), but generally the problems occurred in people who were taking large doses more than three times a week. I'm not sure what dose they used as cut-off for 'high levels' but I assume abusers take it for the dissociative effects, so it should be higher than the therapeutic dose. There is apparently a risk that ketamine will reset tolerance to some pain meds. I posted a note about this about two months ago. Basically, if you are on higher then normal doses of pain meds you need to be very careful, as after ketamine treatments you may respond to that higher dose as if you had never developed a tolerance, therefore putting you at risk of overdose.

Hope this helps. If you do find more information, please post a quick note. I hope you find a treatment that works well for you.

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Dear Rain,

I have read your message over 20 times already and still can't find the right words in my mind to thank you. Just the fact that you took the time to write all the encouragement to me overwhelms me beyond words. You have helped me a great deal. I have written several emails to the site and do not see them anywhere so I pray you receive this. I have also given them permission to share my real full name and email address. People who want that information just need to write into the site and ask, and they will receive my information. You're an amazing person as are the rest of the people in this group who have literally been saving my life. My infusions seem to last 5 or 6 days and then I am right back where I was. God has sent me an angel who will be giving me another infusion tomorrow morning. Although the physical and mental pain is out of control, you have brought me much needed comfort and hope. You are forever in my prayers and I know God will Bless all who have reached out and literally touched my heart. Mary

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I don't know how old this thread is or, if anybody will even see my questions, much less answer them. But, I'm going to throw them out there anyway and, see what happens. I have been reading up a lot on scopolamine for depression which led me to reading a lot on ketamine for it as well. Both sound very promising. A while back I googled treatment resistant major depression disorder and that's what led me to scopolamine which, I was already a bit familiar with because scopolamine is in the same family as belladonna and hyoscyamine which I usually take for colon spasms. (although I haven't been to the doctor in some time now)
Anyway, for a long time now, I have been really wanting, or NEEDING to try something different because over the course of my life, I have tried just about everything else there is from A to Z and STILL haven't landed on the right medication or, combination of medications.
To get to my question (finally ??) I am really sick and tired of being sick and tired and, I am looking for a new psychiatrist.
My question is, how do you tell the psychiatrist that you want to try this medication, particularly ketamine, without sounding like you're "drug seeking" or, asking for the scopolamine that is still in clinical trials for the treatment of depression?
A lot of doctors, I'm sure, would not be ready to just write a script for something that's still being researched, for some person that walks in and says they would like to try it.
Do I look for a particular psychiatrist? Does Medicaid pay for scopolamine or ketamine? Where would I go to get the medicine, just any pharmacy or, a compound pharmacy? Or, do they give it to you at the doctors office? How is the ketamine taken, is it in pill form?
Okay, I think that's all my questions. I really hope somebody answers but, lol I really don't expect it. Haha oh well. I'm still going to ask cuz, I didn't find a million places that were discussing this topic.
Thank you in advance to anyone that actually reads this and provides some useful information.

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Nihilissa,

The issue of finding the right doctor is a major issue. Even with common antidepressants, whenever I moved or changed insurance and had to get a new psychiatrist there was a good chance that she/he would look at what I was taking and want to switch me to one of the meds he/she was more familiar with. And ketamine's mechanism of action does not fit well with how some doctors think about depression, as well as the issue of generally associating it with drugs of abuse. I'm not sure how to approach a doctor, but I think I would phrase it in terms of their feelings about 'evidence-based' medicine, rather than theory-driven. Ketamine is sort of like ECT in that it was found to work, then studied to figure out why (admittedly even the first anti-depressants were discovered this way, because they improved mood in people taking them for TB). The neuropsychiatrist who tried me on ketamine is an amazing researcher, and was able to explain some of the initial side effects in terms of which regions of the brain were doing what, but even then the explanation is incomplete. Personally, I suspect part of the way ketamine benefits me is partially the benefits on PFC neurons that have been stressed for too long, but also that it starts and stops an inflammatory cycle, and I used to have high inflammation markers (for years).

Any physician can prescribe ketamine, so if you have a good relationship with your GP, maybe try talking to him/her first. I suspect a younger doctor is more likely to be flexible because they will have been trained to think in terms of evidence-based medicine rather than theory driven (as if any of it is really theory-free).

Here is a ridiculously long list of things you might want to do: I think if you show your doctor that you are making an informed suggestion (be way more informed than necessary of both the benefits and risks), that you can provide her/him all the information necessary (sources written by physicians with academic/research affiliations) to know the parameters, that you want to start at a low dose (which will probably not be fully effective, but will tell you clearly if it will work or not. This is not just being reasonable, but helps reduce any concern they have about drug seeking, or a desire to feel high.) which is not likely to cause hallucinations, are willing to try it in the office (chair in a low-light room. This shows you want to do this as a medical treatment, as well as providing the doctor the change to see for him/herself whether it works), will sign a waiver (reducing fear of lawyers), only want enough for a single trial (you could even arrange to have it made up and kept by the doctor for the trial), and have a pressing need (so that waiting a few weeks for a traditional antidepressant to work is a problem), and that if it does not work you are willing to try something more traditional (showing that you see this as trying a different category of anti-depressant/mood-stabilizer/adjunctive therapy). You probably do not want to broach the topic, but if the doctor has concerns about safety you might want to look up safety info, including that it is used as a field anesthetic, and on children because it does not depress respiration. I think the main risk is in people who are on high doses of narcotics for pain; that it resets your body to a naive state and continuing to take a high dose of the other med can therefore be dangerous. It is a medicine that has been around for decades, and is used in veterinary medicine, and I believe it is on the World Health Organization list of core medicines (usually a good sign that it is not too expensive, does not have major side effects, and is useful, although it is on the list as an anesthetic).

Reading the posts here, you will note that in the US there are a few doctors doing infusion treatments, which are expensive, done in the clinic, and seem to have the most complete and lasting effects. I don't know if you are in a position to go to one of those known people and pay the cost. I had moved back to Canada before trying this therapy. Here the financial logic is different, anything in-hospital or in-clinic is a drain on resources. I was given it orally; the neuropsychiatrist had treated other patients and used tablets made up by a compounding pharmacy. This is less expensive and, if it works, can be used at home. I take an oral liquid because stomach surgery left me with a low-acid stomach which might not metabolize the coating. I've also tried taking the liquid with a nasal aspirator (squirt up the nose into the sinus cavity), which in theory increases bioavailability and reduces the required dose. I did not find a difference, which is probably because my low-acid stomach also doesn't metabolize the ketamine into un-useful components as quickly as normal, but I understand that his current protocol includes this method. I suspect the lower-dose and more predictable level that is bioavailable is the major issue. I would suggest talking to your doctor about tablets because it is less expensive, does not require equipment, you can have a small number made up, and frankly because anything with liquid or powder might feel more drug-abuse-ish to them. I have a long post from earlier this summer which sets out the protocol that was used for me. My regular psychiatrist now oversees this. Really, if your doctor sees you take it in the office, he/she will see very dramatically if it works of not. If you take it and are not sure if it worked, it didn't. When I first tried it, within an hour I could make eye contact without it being painful.

I've probably overwhelmed you with advice. Before you look into ketamine further, the first thing I would ask you is, why do you want to try ketamine treatment now? You said you've tried lots of different meds in the past. Did any of them work, and if so in what ways? If you are willing to talk about it, I will check back on the board every few days for the next week.

Just to give you a disclaimer and context. I had been taking ketamine orally, two to three times a week for over a year. I had tried antidepressants from every category except MAOIs (which I consider more risky than ECT). I've even tried ECT once. It worked beautifully on the depression, but I still don't remember a month or two afterwards. FYI, responding to ECT is one thing that apparently is associated with responding to ketamine. I've been told that people whose depression comes and goes are also more likely to respond. I have also tried rTMS, which works beautifully if done a certain way. A month ago I was able to restart that treatment, stopping the ketamine as it kicked in. I don't have a tendency to addiction, and found no desire to continue taking ketamine. I am currently waiting to find out if they are going to do maintenance therapy (hopefully once a week rTMS touch-ups). For me, it is the only thing in 25 years that produced a full year without any depression (the ketamine treatment was effective, but I had a batch that we think was mis-compounded. It also has a short effectiveness period in me, sometimes only 2 full days.) If the doctor decides to stop rTMS until I get depressed again my plan is to proceed from the clinic to an ice-cream shop until I can stop crying, then wait until the symptoms start coming back and go back on ketamine. I really would like some predictability in my life, especially the ability to make plans for things more than three months in the future, knowing that the depression won't knock everything down again.

Hold in there. There are options. Ketamine may be one of them, but even if it isn't, there are others.

Best Wishes,
Cai

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Nihilism: I wrote to the administrators saying anybody who asks for my contact may have it. I will write to them again and add your name specifically. I have not heard from anyone in this very special group for quite sometime. Many were suicidal. I can't bear to finish that thought. I will help you as much as I'm able. Hang in there and I beg of you not to loose hope. There's been too much loss on this site already. I will keep you in my prayers until I hear from you. May

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Dear Iron:

Thank you for your kind message. I'm extremely worried about everybody. I sent a letter to administration telling them to share my email and information with you. You just need to write a letter and ask them for it. Praying you ok, Mary xo

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Mary,

Sorry I haven't been on the board for many weeks. I started rTMS treatment a month ago, and due to car issues have been spending about five hours a day on transit alone. The good news is that the treatment worked wonderfully and I don't feel depressed or particularly anxious. Now I am waiting to see if they will do maintenance therapy (hopefully once a week) or decide to follow the usual protocol of waiting until the depression recurs (it is sort of like having someone help you up after you fall down stairs; you really appreciate the hand up, but after so many times, you wish they would just stop the person/depression from pushing you down the stairs in the first place). I've made arrangements with my regular psychiatrist, and if they won't do maintenance I will start taking the ketamine once symptoms start to recur. The thyroid issue is still up in the air, with a possibility that one of my parathyroid glands is over-active (strangely this would be good news as it is quite fixable).

Last I heard you were working out a treatment schedule. Tablets or nasal to keep you going between infusions? How is it working? Do you find it is helping certain symptoms more than others, or some for a longer period than others? Have you noticed any patterns relating to how long or how completely the treatments work?

Best Wishes,
Cai

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Hi, yes I have been struggling with severe major depressive disorder and chronic and severe anxiety as well as severe social anxiety. I am a mess around people so I simply never leave my house. I too have tried a zillion different medicines from every category of antidepressants and mood stabilizers and antipsychotics, etc... They even wanted to to try me on MAOIS but I refused.( For reasons I'm sure I don't need to explain. I'm sure you know.) That was how I came to learn of ketamine for depression in the first place. I googled "treatments or medications for treatment resistant depression" and that's where I learned that scopolamine and ketamine both have been effective and, since I have tried just about everything from A -Z (a few things I tried more than once even) I am at the end of my rope, I have been living with this depression most of my life and have YET to find ANY relief at all. At this point I'm desperate. I'm tired of living and it's time to try something different because I'm not going to take MAOIS. I just think those are more scary to put in my body than ketamine which I'm familiar with and, understand whatever possible risks involved. And, I recently found out ketamine, as well as scopolamine, is in the same family as belladonna which, I KNOW I can take because I have taken a couple of medicines that are in the same family of medicine, as well as pure belladonna. I too have stomach problems. Hyoscyamine is in the same family of scopolamine, and belladonna, I take those for colon spasms. So, I already know how my body reacts to that type of medication. I have never had any problems with it so, I'm thinking I shouldn't have any problems with other meds in that category. But of course I would be more than willing to take it in the doctors office or, even stay in the hospital a few days if necessary. I have Medicaid because I'm on disability so, cost is not a worry for me. Unless it's not covered since its technically still in clinical trials for depression treatment. I'm familiar with ECT but, I don't want to try that. However, I don't know what is RTMS?

The one thing though is that I am on pain medicine and, I'm on a lot. I take 210mgs of methadone every day to treat chronic pain. I think maybe it would actually be a good thing though to lower my tolerance because, I don't hardly get much pain relief from it anymore and, this great big dose is causing me upset stomach and nausea and sometimes vomiting. It may be helpful if I can take a smaller dose. I have also read about ketamine as a treatment for fibromyalgia and, that is a contributing factor in my pain issues. So, if I can get the added benefit of it treating that as well, that would be another bonus. To be honest, I don't really WANT to try it without having the doctor watch how i react to it. That way, if I do have a bad reaction, he will be right there to help me and make sure I'm okay. I'm always nervous when I take something new. Especially something that will alter the way I think. I have had adverse reactions before and, I happened to be in public and, I almost landed myself in jail a couple times and, there were even a couple times that, it was a mystery how I even survived. A little off the subject but, I once had an adverse reaction and went to the e.r. but I was so out of it, I didn't know what I was doing. What did they do at the hospital? Gave me a huge mega dose inj. of the very SAME medicine I was reacting to, then kicked me out of the hospital cuz "I was acting strange" so I called my mom to come get me and I was outside waiting for her and it was midnight and the security guard told me if I didn't leave the property "NOW!" he would have me out in jail. Next thing I knew I woke up in a trashy pick up truck in the middle of nowhere and some fat old man was sitting in the driver's seat pleasuring himself. I should have sued the HELL out of that hospital!! So anyway, THAT is why I always prefer to be watched by a medical professional when I try something new.

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