Ketamine For Depression? (Page 34)
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It was recommended by the members of a separate thread that one be started that directly relates to ketamine and it's use to treat depression.

If anyone besides myself would like to discuss it's use as a treatment for depression, feel free to post your questions, answers and experiences here.

This thread is an offshoot of a related one that discussed a treatment of Scopolamine for depression.

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@ Keller- I am an RN. I was fully aware of the protocol. Although I am sure there was an anesthesiologist in the hospital somewhere, there DEFINITELY was not one present during the Ketamine infusions. So it is not necessary for one to be present during infusion.

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@paula - i think a GLYX - 13 thread is a great idea! That is what I want too. How do we start it? It has much more of a future than Ketamine. It will be accessible to regular psychiatrists, it is just a long way off. There is also a Science Blog discussing it now too. There are multiple sources, but the dosages are low. will keep looking.....

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Hi Renee, how many time they will give you GLYX13 in this trial? How often?
Are you on some medication at the moment?

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@paula I bet there was an anesthesiologist there. And while one may not like that they need to be there, ketamine is an anesthetic and doctors who proscribe anesthetics and are not anesthesiologists get their licenses reviewed (at least in Georgia where I am) then they have to justify the medication. At the best it is more paperwork, at the worst it is a revocation of medical license.

I to am interested in Glyx-13, maybe it needs its own thread?

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It is so ridiculous to use anesthesiologist because when I was in trial, it was performed by RN. Of course they did have a crash cart available in case of any probs, but there are also infusion centers where folks get chemo, etc. that could be used. I want more info re: the GLYX-13 trial in Chicago.

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@Paula Absolutely, the major drawback to doing clinical trials is that if you find something that world and works well, you will normally not be able to receive that medication after the trial. The corollary to that however is that in the case of something like ketamine wich is already approved, but not for this purpose, is that you will often times find a PCP or Psychiatrist who is willing to continue a treatment regimen now that here is documentation to back up its efficacy. Again this has a drawback though in that drugs like ketamine are well scheduled and most doctors wil likely want an anesthesiologist to administer or oversee the medication; quite frankly anesthesiologists are the reason ketamine treatment via IV is so darned expensive. This is one reason I have hope for the nasal route, which does not require an IV.

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You will not continue to receive the meds once the trial is over. Been there, done that. Dr. Fanelli is a good guy, caring, have seen him, didn't know he was using K now. Gotta check that out.

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@keller - there are AT LEAST two sites you can buy it, in a 2 minute search 1st page. would you like them?
pill form only.reputable sources.

NORTH WESTERN UNIVERSITY - INVO -NAUREX: JOE MOSKEAL -"What are the longer term goals for Naurex"? TELLS ALL.
DO NOT REPLY!

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@ Renee yes I'm still on it, the generic is supposed to ship immediately so it may be possible to go to the pharmacy and see if it's an option

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@renee, and they may have change the protocol, so long as they follow it I hope everything goes well. I have too many hopes for Glyx-13 and its associated meds and I have seen many drugs not come to market because of testing sites breaking protocol and having otherwise perfectly good results, but tainted information rejected. Thats the only reason I said anything.

UAB contacted me back yesterday saying the Ketamine trial Protocols had changed and I was now a candidate, and that they are likely going to be a location for a new ketamine trial delivered vial nasal rather than IV early next year. I go in next week for my physical and drug testing. Then find out if I am assigned 2 days a week for IV or 3.

One nice thing about the trial, if there is no improvement in the first 2 weeks of the trial it converts from double blind to open label for up to 2 additional weeks.

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@Keller I can see why my previous message may have sounded like they're breaking protocol, I guess I should've been more specific - because they strike me as very by the book. It says in the trial protocol even on clinicaltrials.gov that "Based on the investigator and Naurex medical monitor's clinical judgment, subjects with eating disorders, obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD), panic disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and generalized anxiety disorders secondary to major depressive episodes (MDEs) are permitted." While ADHD is not included in that sentence, I obviously disclosed the ADD medication I take daily upfront and they made sure it was on the allowed list of meds before even letting me come in for an evaluation. I don't know what the criteria is for which meds are permitted or which aren't, but since my ADD med was allowed, it stands to reason that being medicated for ADD is not immediately a disqualifying factor. There's a medical monitor overseeing the entire trial who has to decide eligibility on a case by case basis. While I may have a longstanding diagnosis of ADHD, it's been such a minor part of my problems and I think the monitor understood that. When it comes to anxiety, they decide whether it disqualifies you, as it says in the protocol. My guess would be that if they eliminated *anyone* who experiences some level of chronic anxiety, they'll have a hard time finding enough people for the study. There's a reason the depression rating scale(s) have questions pertaining to anxiety too - it often goes hand in hand with depression. I didn't know any of this before I called the center or went in for my evaluation.

@Blueheelercd I'm sorry to hear Riluzole didn't work for you. $1500 for a month's supply seems like quite a lot. I'm assuming you paid out of pocket? It seems like @andy is right that the patent expired 2 days ago. Hopefully now it will be cheaper? Are you still on it @andy? My interest in it lies mainly in the fact that I found out none of the subjects in the GLYX-13 trial have access to the GLYX-13 once the study's over. While up to 17 weeks depression-free (some people get disqualified after the 7th week depending on their improvement/non-improvement, not clear which) sounds wonderful, going back to square one at the end would be a pretty hard pill to swallow...

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Hey everyone. Apologies in advance for the ridiculously long messages. So I had my first dose of the Glyx-13 this afternoon. @catpower Yep, we're talking about the same trial. I asked quite a few questions about the placebo and they reiterated that some people get it (saline), while others get the GLYX-13 either at a 5 mg/kg or 10 mg/kg dose as you said. It says the same on clinicaltrials.gov. My understanding is it's a 50/25/25 % breakdown, but I may have misunderstood that. Will ask next week. They were adamant that as it's a double-blind study no one at the research center has the slightest clue what any participant is getting. So it seems anyone can get either, regardless of their "score", or it would taint the study (the staff listen to you take your depression scale questionnaire, and it wouldn't be a tough guess from there).

That being said, I do think I got the real thing. Being generally skeptical and pessimistic, it really surprises me to report that I actually feel quite a bit better just in the several hours since receiving the injection. I don't want to get overly excited so soon, for all I know it's a placebo effect and will pass (there's that negativity) but I can't deny the fact that something is different. I didn't get out of the research center until 6 PM and I still managed to do a couple of things I have not had the will or energy to accomplish in months. The only negative thing I can report is like a slightly nervous energy (hard to explain & not like my usual anxiety).

The summary: So far, so good. I can't speak for other trial locations, but the staff at the Chicago one have been very flexible with scheduling, and really seem to try and make you comfortable throughout the process. If you're not on drugs (I watched a woman leave after testing positive for Cocaine today…) and treatment resistant depression is your primary problem it's worth giving them a call. The phone # is (773) 282-9845. For those that don't qualify or don't have a trial in their location - don't give up. Glyx-13 isn't the only med of its kind and there will be more trials!

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@ Renee Riluzole is the most effective drug I have taken for depression. The patent for it expired 2 days ago and there are generics set to come out soon.

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@Renee congrats on getting into the GLYX-13 trial!! I am the one who was told by a study manager that every one in the phase 2 trial will get the drug, it's just a matter of how often. Just to be certain, the trial number I looked into is NCT01684163. There are 3 arms - 1) placebo; 2) low-dose GLYX-13 (5mg/kg); and 3) high-dose GLYX-13 (10mg/kg). All of this info is on clinicaltrials.gov. I was told they will be rating people using the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale (HDRS-17; google it) to see how depressed they are and using that to determine which dose to give, at least initially. I really believe you will not get "stuck" in a placebo-only arm; at least this is what I was told. Good luck and keep us posted! :)

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@renee- I took Riluzole about a year ago. It's $1500 for 30 days. 1/2 way into the 2nd month I started getting severe side effects. It never helped me. Because of cost etc. I don't think it will ever be an option. Looking hard for GLXy- 13!!!

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Dear Renee, please keep on posting, I think we all want to know if GLYX13 works!
I hope you dont get placebo...

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@Renee, thanks for the update. Though it sounds as though the Chicago trial is breaking protocol. The protocol specifically says there can be no other Axis 1 diagnosis.

@Blueheelercd you really do have no idea what you are saying do you?
"GLXY-13 would have been controlled along time ago when it was invented. The researcher that did and is now doing private clinical trials with a company can be googled. He has his own website with the co., With a huge photo of himself. They sell it on there. "

Umm no, adamantly no. As has already been stated there is a single legitimate source for Glyx-13 it is not available on the open market and it you have a license to get it it is still $115 a gram.

Glyx-13 is in 2nd stage trials, not 3rd and definitely not your 4th or 5th stage.

Your evidence of nasal ketamine is strictly anecdotal. I can go and find a large number of people who are experts even that will swear that using the left hand to most tasks is easier than the right hand. Guess what they are all left handed. Relying on them only leads one to the mistaken belief that right handedness is an odd situation.

If nasal Ketamine doesn't work or if the doctor does not think it is a good fit then it will not be a solution for me. I have been down this road over 100 times. I know that my condition is the exception, not the rule.

@Everyone else: None of us would be here if normal treatments worked on us. There is a lot to learn about depression and other axis 1 disorders including the mechanism of how they function and ongoing changes in brain chemistry and structure. Keep your hopes up.

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@catpower I have never heard of Namenda but in researching options this past week did find some information on another existing NMDA receptor antagonist called Riluzole. Apparently its main use is for ALS, but it's been shown recently to be effective for treatment resistant depression. A search on clinicaltrials.gov turned up a couple active trials: clinicaltrials.gov/riluzole+depression&rank=1, clinicaltrials.gov/riluzole+depression&rank=2. There's also one for Bipolar, and one using ketamine plus riluzole for maintenance. Not a lot of locations for the studies, but as it's already an approved drug it shouldn't be impossible to just get it prescribed.

Kind of unrelated, but I'm feeling infinitely more hopeful about these types of drugs since my research turned up the fact that Tramadol is partially an NMDA-R antagonist as well. I obviously don't recommend Tramadol itself to anyone because of its potential for abuse, but I can say that for a brief time I was self medicating with 25 mg of Tramadol a day (quite a small dose) because it had a distinct anti-anxiety and antidepressant effect. I'm not talking about being high - consistent use at that dose just once a day is not really enough to have that effect, but just a slight feeling of well-being which I hadn't experienced in a long time. Of course, the effect wore off after 8-12 hrs and it had side effects (loss of appetite, some insomnia, nausea if taken on an empty stomach), etc. Apparently it's not a powerful NMDA-R antagonist, so this makes me even more hopeful that another drug may prove even more effective, and without the potential for abuse. I'm pretty certain that its benefit for me was not due to its Serotonin-related effects because SSRIs or SNRIs have never helped me before.

@Keller I felt the same way when I discovered this thread, too.

@Andy Another option never hurts. It doesn't seem like anyone on here has actually seen Dr. Fanelli, and Dr. Best sounds horrible, so a first-hand referral to someone would certainly be appreciated. Even if your guy doesn't administer Ketamine he sounds pretty enlightened. I'm pretty cautious of most Dr's administering Ketamine after reading the stories here, to be honest.

On that note, does anyone know how to get the administrator(s) to allow people to contact you off-thread? I saw that discussed a few pages back but have no idea how to do it!

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Hey all, I haven't had time to read through all the new posts, but I wanted to write a an update. After finding out the GLYX-13 trial in Chicago was recruiting through this forum and pre-qualifying or whatnot over the phone I went in for all the testing and evaluation. There was some debate over whether ADHD and anxiety precluded me from the trial but after talking it over with the "medical monitor" they decided it was ok since they were kind of secondary to the depression. It was a long day. You definitely end up feeling kind of weird. At least I did. Having to dwell on the history of your depression and be the center of attention, poked and prodded, etc. But obviously it'll be well worth it if it works. So after qualifying (my blood test results are coming in tomorrow, so barring something weird there I'm in) I now have an appointment for 06/20 to receive my first dose. They do have some pretty strict requirements for the trial but if you're interested in it I would recommend emailing the study coordinator listed on clinicaltrials.gov and finding out if there's one in your area. The Chicago one is not listed, for example, but is obviously recruiting.

On to the only major bummer - I think someone had written that there is no placebo in this trial and everyone receives the drug. That must be a different study because this one is controlled with placebo. While I still have reservations about it being experimental, I really hope I get the actual drug. My feeling is if I don't feel any effect after the first 2 or 3 doses (sounds like most people benefit on the 1st dose) I will go ahead and try the Ketamine with Dr. Fanelli in East Chicago. I don't want to post information online that I'm not supposed to, but since I found his name on here I figure it's ok. After calling I did confirm that he administers Ketamine and his fees are much more reasonable than what I saw posted about Dr. Best on here (albeit still really expensive if you need to go in weekly, which is how it sounds from everyone's posts). Of course, he could be a total quack, too, so it's not like I'm recommending him. But all I've gained from the Ketamine studies is that if it's administered responsibly *with the correct dose* the side effects at the time are minimal and manageable for most people. I have to say I have some reservations about this clinical trial after one of the owners of the study center, after I brought up Ketamine as an alternative if I didn't qualify, suggested it "causes psychosis for days all the time" and completely discredited it's antidepressant effects. Sorry, but I much prefer facts to scare tactics from medical professionals... Anyway, I will post again once I've received my first dose of whatever I get and let you know how it goes.

The only obvious question I just realized I forgot to ask the study people last week was what happens if you do get the real thing and it works (a big if) - do they keep administering it to you somehow when the study ends or is that it? I'm not one to be very hopeful, but on the off chance this thing actually helps it would be unfortunate to then lose access to it while you wait on the FDA to take their sweet time approving it... I'll get the answer to this on Thursday. Fingers crossed!

P.S. If there's anyone else on here trying the GLYX-13 I'd love to hear from you.

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I've been using intranasal k for about 2 months and I find it interesting. It cuts OCD symptoms down as well as negative thinking.

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