Ketamine For Depression? (Page 15) (Top voted first)

It was recommended by the members of a separate thread that one be started that directly relates to ketamine and it's use to treat depression.

If anyone besides myself would like to discuss it's use as a treatment for depression, feel free to post your questions, answers and experiences here.

This thread is an offshoot of a related one that discussed a treatment of Scopolamine for depression.

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First off, I am glad to finally find a place with personal anecdotes for using ketamine for depression. Does anyone know of any other forums?

Like many of you I have severe biopolar 2 depression that is unrelenting, ruined my life and I have triedd many many meds over the years to no avail. My situation is different about obtaining it is different. A good friend is a doctor and agreed to obtain a vial of ketamine and perform the infusion as a giant favor for me. He did an IV "push" of .5mg/kg over about 20 minutes. It was the most intense hallucinations and intoxication I have ever experienced. I was completely intoxicated for hours and it was not scary per se but just very intense and not something I want to repeat, at least not that way. Anyway, I honestly did not get much relief from it outside of placebo probably. There is enough for multiple more doses but I have to do it differently b/c I don;t want to be intoxicated like that again. BTW, the vial, which is enough for about 15 doses at .5mg/kg cost his office $5.00.

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are there any people out there who have had success with the .5mg ketamine injections, and who once the effects wore off, just continued gettting more injections. i realize the financial cost is generally outrageous, and this keeps most from being able to do this. but are there any out there with chronic major depression and/or anxiety, ptsd etc, who have regualrly had the injections for a year or more? and if so, has the ketamine (at the same dose, and at the same frequency of injection) maintained its efficacy? perhaps there's someone out there who either can financially afford this, or who has special circumstances allowing for regular injections, who could answer this? my example would be that say if ketamine injection works well for 10 days, but by day 11 it generally starts losing its effectiveness for someone, and so then the person uses this as their schedule of injection (.5mg injection every 10 days); does the drug tend to maintain its efficacy? or do people generally need higher doses or more frequent shots over time? or perhaps the opposite; as synapses form and neurons repair (and whatever else the apparrent NMDA antagonism /glutamate modulation etc does), perhaps people over time began to build sustainable lasting benefits from the ketamine, and can then began spacing out injections/titrating off until it's no longer needed? this would of course be the ideal. does anyone know of cases where the drug atleast maintains its efficacy over a year or longer with regular scheduled injections? i am told by a very reputable psychiatrist that this can very well be the case. and that it's only the cost, inconvenience, and potential discomfort (hallucinatory etc) of the injection administration that keeps this from being performed. he tells me that at this dosage and at no closer than 10 days between shots, there is NO reported lab abnormalities, bladder or kidney problems,,,and that the drug generally keeps its efficacy indefinitely (for those who it works for initially). is there anyone out there who could confirm this, or provide any info of known cases that supports this line of thinking? i already know that of course ketamine doesnt work for everyone, but for those who it does help......any data on above questions? any patients recieving regular longterm injections out there??

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Well I had 2 infusions 2 weeks apart. The second infusion was done "correctly" , and took effect slower , so there was only a slight intoxication. Which was much better mentally to deal with. But I am afraid I may a non-responder to this drug, which really bums me out. I definitely felt that it has greatly helped my anxiety and occassional panic attacks. Alot in fact. But I am still having pretty bad break through depression in the same pattern as before - which is dysthymia punctuated with a couple of random days a week of basically being so depressd I'm suicidal. I am going to keep trying but again, and keep posting.

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sad james, does your doctor friend know to use .5mg per kg your body weight? if you can tolerate the initial altered state, then you can move up doses by .1mg per kg until maybe you feel better. i would stop at .9mg however, and if still noticing no effect, maybe try find someone with experience for advice. your dr friend could call any of the doctors mentioned on this site for info/advice

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also, if you truly feel the ketamine is helping your anxiety (and not something else doing this),, then this is a good sign to stick with it, i believe. glutamate is mainly an excitatory NT. as the synapses repair (as seen in studies), over time the depression may lessen as well. in other words, those of us with depression and anxiety, it seems (from what little i have gathered) that the anxiety lessens first for some. also, i would recommend taking n-acetylcysteine 2000mg every day (1000mg 2x). this wont cause noticeable results, if ever, until as far as 3 months, but it is very good glutamate modulator, and precursor to glutathione (perhaps most powerful antioxidant). even if symptoms remain, this is nothing but good to take

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are there any people out there who have had success with the .5mg ketamine injections, and who once the effects wore off, just continued gettting more injections. i realize the financial cost is generally outrageous, and this keeps most from being able to do this. but are there any out there with chronic major depression and/or anxiety, ptsd etc, who have regualrly had the injections for a year or more? and if so, has the ketamine (at the same dose, and at the same frequency of injection) maintained its efficacy? perhaps there's someone out there who either can financially afford this, or who has special circumstances allowing for regular injections, who could answer this? my example would be that say if ketamine injection works well for 10 days, but by day 11 it generally starts losing its effectiveness for someone, and so then the person uses this as their schedule of injection (.5mg injection every 10 days); does the drug tend to maintain its efficacy? or do people generally need higher doses or more frequent shots over time? or perhaps the opposite; as synapses form and neurons repair (and whatever else the apparrent NMDA antagonism /glutamate modulation etc does), perhaps people over time began to build sustainable lasting benefits from the ketamine, and can then began spacing out injections/titrating off until it's no longer needed? this would of course be the ideal. does anyone know of cases where the drug atleast maintains its efficacy over a year or longer with regular scheduled injections? i am told by a very reputable psychiatrist that this can very well be the case. and that it's only the cost, inconvenience, and potential discomfort (hallucinatory etc) of the injection administration that keeps this from being performed. he tells me that at this dosage and at no closer than 10 days between shots, there is NO reported lab abnormalities, bladder or kidney problems,,,and that the drug generally keeps its efficacy indefinitely (for those who it works for initially). is there anyone out there who could confirm this, or provide any info of known cases that supports this line of thinking? i already know that of course ketamine doesnt work for everyone, but for those who it does help......any data on above questions? any patients recieving regular longterm injections out there??

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I have never happy all of mt 57 years, it's along story.
all I know is i was driver by criticism, it drove me past my limits, I got bit by a mosquito and contracted west nile and viral meningitis. that was june 2010,, it almost killed me, I feel so sick and weak , I have become a recluse,I don't want to go anywhere,, AND THAT IS NOT ME !!!!!!! I have a race I don't care I have a Nice house I oen mt on buiiness, not dioing well because of my health which is a super deep dark depression, I feel like I don't want to live one more secund, The love of my lies waswas diagnosed wiyh myeloma bone caner
, that did it for me I lost it..... I started taking NORCO 10-325 to cope ,but I ieaarned real quict I was takingbtommuch so I quite , that hurt, never just stop you will want to die,, anyway if someome could me so help befi\ore I snap pleasr do life means nothiy to me HELP !!!R

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I am new to this forum and have just read John's post about his experience with Ketamine and Hope's reply. I am making arrangements now to get a first round of K infusions and am hopeful. I, too, am sorry to hear, John, that you did not respond to this treatment. I am also GLAD to read Hope's post that we lobby and pressure those in power to step up clinical research, etc. to GET TO THE CRUX OF DEPRESSION. and other Mental Illnesses...I have major depression, non-responsive to any antidepressant and sought out clinical trials on K. I first discovered that research with K was happening about years ago and was initially stunned that K was simultaneously being studied for depression and on the DEA website as being a "dangerous club drug...." I was totally confused and didn't pursue a trial at that time. My depression has become so persistant and totally resistant to AD's that target serotonin, etc. that I am quite willing to try anything....except ect, street drugs (go figure...K!) and alcohol. Bottom line...I recently applied to trials in NYC at New York State Psych Institute (associated with Columbia University and Columbia/NY Presbyterian Hospital) and at Yale...I was rejected during second interview at NYSPI, but treated very well and given info on K infusions available for depression. Which confused me even more...anyway, I am willing to spend money that I don't have to attempt this treatment. Any advice, feedback, etc. is greatly appreciated and urgently needed. Also...has anyone found any monetary assistance for any part of this....travel, medical treatment, etc. It is very, very expensive...and I have to travel quite a ways...but, folks, the alternative is not pretty and I feel like I am quickly approaching that point. Be well...and thanks for your input.

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Hi, just lost a long thread as I was trying to post. Read John's post as to his lack of response to K treatment and Hope's reply that we all need to lobby and pressure for better treatment for depression. I am ALL ABOUT THAT and would like to be kept informed on any activity...also, any input or advice regarding K infusions would be greatly appreciated and are urgently needed. I am about to schedule a first round of 4 infusions and it is going to cost me a great deal for the infusions, travel and accomodations...I am at a point that I am willing to spend outrageous money for relief...the alternative is not pleasant...thanks....

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Michael...you seem to be the guy in the know here...I am guessing that you started this thread? I am new here and posted a pretty long "introductory" just a few minutes ago. I am curious about the nasal K....I am about to invest a fortune for a first round of infusions in NYC....but I also can't afford this over time. would love to hear more about the K nasal....I will even give you my cell phone number privately in an email if you would contact me. I am scheduling treatment soon in NYC....a Dr. Brooks if anyone has had any experience with him would appreciate feedback. He was recommened by a psych doc from NYSPI......very educated on the subject, was compassionate, seems his prices are in order with what I see here and if a pdoc recommended him, I am ok with that. At this point....I don't have a thing to lose, most seriously. Thanks

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John... I am responding to a post on June, 2012 as you describe your nasal polyps, the nasal K, loss of smell related to depression...OMG...it was like turning a light on for me. I have never heard about the loss of smell and depression, but I suffer from severe sinus problems, had polyps, was just in the hospital with acute sinusitus that i didn't even know I had and my primary was furious with me. Even though she couldn't see me when I called her office with symptoms of a flu like fever, etc...lol. But I have also lost my sense of smell and occasionally I do get a whiff of things....like my carpet...which is not pleasant...lol.. Anyway, please stay in touch with me if you are still on here. This has really interested me and is another possible missing link in a long and disgusting puzzle...I WILL FIGURE THIS OUT...I WILL!

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N2V...responding to your post sometime in July 2012...Dr. Fruitman and the intramuscular K...I am about to travel from Florida to NYC to see Dr. Brooks for K infusions....cost of infusion is $460 with a regime of 4 infusions over a 5-6 day period. I was impressed with Brooks knowledge of K, depression, his explanation of the glutamate connection to untreatable depression (THAT PDOCS NEVER DISCUSS....) and his concern for my situation. I talked to him over the phone tonight and felt better that there are doctors out there who are working with alternatives to Big Pharma antidepressants that simply dont work on me....Is $460 per infusion a reasonable price...I also have to fly up and back and pay for lodging. I live in a LAME state when it comes to anything new and progressive...your input on the NYC area or anywhere on the East Coast would be helpful....thanks

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Paula...responding to a post by you in Oct. 2012. Oh, I could not agree more with everything you said. and I think the sooner we organize to expose the k connection to severe depression and pressure those in power to do something about it, the better. I am just now getting into the K cycle....having to fly to NYC to get help with infusion. Like the doc so far...not Fruitman, but Brooks. Have you heard of him? I am desperate...I sit and stare, have all the symptoms of deep depression and no drug has helped. Also have ptsd, anxiety....all the drugs my pdoc wants to give me are ssri's - none of which target glutamate. NOW is the first that I have heard that glutamate, processed in area 25 of the brain could be the REAL culprit...I am. pardon me. pissed beyond belief.....I will pay about three thousand for 4 infusions, air fare and accomodations for 5-6 days in midtown....any help, tips, insight on this trip for me will be helpful. I need to find accomodations near times square...docs office is on East 50th st?

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Gleeful, can you please give me details of Dr. Brooks for K infusions in NY, I am would like to contact him.

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I don't have a lot of time to get into this topic right now, will post more later, but if you go back to my postings from last summer, there is a lot of stuff re my trial experience of Ketamine Infusions at Alexian Bros Hospital in Hoffman Estates, IL. I do believe there are still trials going on across the country, check 'mydepressionstudy.com' on the web. They PAY YOU $75 per visit! More later...

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http://ketamine4depression.com/about-us/

Tell me what you think.

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Probably will cost an arm and a leg. During the trial, the infusions were conducted by RN's, no MD supervision whatsoever. I had 2 infusions through a private pdoc setting, conducted by RN anesthetist while also receiving that TMS treatment, where they do the magnetic stimulation to the cranium at the same time (don't know if you've heard heard of that one).

Anyway, 1k per visit, not worth it, did nothing. Had 2 treatments in one week, the doc struck me as a jerk, didn't speak to me before or after either treatment.

Here is what I would do if in NYC. There is a guy, Dr. Fruitman, Nurses administer IM injections of Ketamine, 15 minutes apart, for safety reasons. I would look into his treatment plan, guarantee you Fruitman is WAY more affordable and just as safe.

My experience with the study was that it took me until the 3rd infusion in a week's time for the amazing transformation in my thought process to change, during the study it was gradually tapered down to one time every other week.

So what the eventual outcome in terms of effectiveness for a maintenance plan was that the effects wore after a week. But if I had my druthers, what I would recommend for my PERSONAL treatment would be 2 IM injections based on .5mg/kg of bodyweight, per week. But probably could get away with one per week. Mind you I have not had Ketamine INJECTIONS yet, but I see no reason why that would not be just as effective.

Call Fruitman and check him out first, and remember that it took me until #3 to get an AMAZING response, but then after that, 1x per week was good for maintenance, so don't be discouraged if you don't 'get it' the first or second time.

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gleeful-

yes, not being able to smell has a direct link to depression. do some googling on 'anosmia and depression' and you will find plenty of info.

i was supposed to have my 3rd polyp surgery this past thursday, but i rescheduled. just too beat-up right now. plus, the darn things come back in a year or so. argh. still, i plan on having surgery next month.

as far as ketamine goes i did not respond. as you read, i tried both nasal administration and infusion. i was very disappointed. i do not want to discourage you. i say go for it.

i am curious about the im shot deal. i do have a doctor friend and am curious if he would do it for me. just a few times to see if a multiple approach would make a difference.

good luck and please keep us posted. i have read quite a bit about the 'next gen' of antidepressants which will be hitting the receptors that ketamine does. this is a few years away from reality unfortunately. still, something to keep in mind.

take good care and keep fighting.

john

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Paula-

I live in Chicago too, have you had any success finding doctors that will administer ketamine for depression?

You mentioned Dr Steven Best, there are a couple of pain doctors that use them for neurological problems but I'm not sure if they will use it for depression and the receptionists weren't helpful.

Thanks

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Paula, I'd be interested in hearing more about your experience in the way that it's changed the way you think. Through the years, my cognitive growth/ability have really take a beating from the depression. My social skills are dismal, I think in circles, short term memory shot, indecisive, can't envision, and I have a hard time grasping and relating concepts and ideas. I really thought I had a brain tumor but a brain MRI assuaged those fears. So it must be the depression.

I took a look at the depression study link that you posted. I'm in Northern California. All of the research locations in CA are, unfortunatley for me, located in Southern California.

I was one of the few who tried the intranasal ketamine spray. It was a big waste of time of money. I'm looking to seeing a psych since I finally found a job that gave me some decent health insurance, but Kaiser is triaging me through a therapist before seeing a psych. I'm going to try more meds and possibly revisit the Glutamate class of ADs once more options are available.

And also, I totally agree with you on that the Drs using the infusions to make a quick buck.

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