Unfair Insane Methadone Clinic Detox (Page 3) (Top voted first)

I have been a patient at compdrugs methadone clinic for 5 years. Never had dirty urines. I got 1 dirty 20 days ago and they took my dose from 185mg to 100 to nothing. 3 days. Is this legal and do I have a chance of fighting it. The doc. Dr. Alvin Pelt. is god at the clinic. Any ideas on what I can do would be welcome. Hopefully i can figure somethisg out b4 I blow my head off. Anyone out there whos gone thru a methadone withdrawal understands. Thanks all.

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Hey all, i have been on Methadone since 1963 ..Dole and Nyswinger NYC/ Beth Israel Hosp. and still on it in Tucson AZ.
Same happened to me in 1987 in county jail. I went the News Paper they came to the Jail did a story in a Parade Issue of the Sunday paper and the clinic folded and reinstated me.....The squeeky Wheel gets the grease.Call everyone...scream it from the roof tops... The Feds and State both oversee the clinic, go to the directors of the entities directly over your clinic the umbrella agencied, Not that it will do much good bit file a complaint with the ACLU.. least they will know you are serious .Call Lawyers/ find one that will take pro bono, there are plenty of left wing liberals around, you know the gray haired balding on top, poney tailed, yellow fingernailed type. get out, scream it from the roof tops

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JOJOEKSTER: oxytocin is a hormone that has to do with glycolysis or sugar Metabolism. You say other know nothing? You know nothing. If you think oxytocin is oxycontin (which is oxycodone hcl but 80 mgs is the same dose as 16 percs) you are so busy demonstrating how "right" you are that you make an ass out of yourself. You are, in short, sadly mistaken.

You're the only one that can do that. All my years of addiction followed by methadone treatment all tell me much more than your time in program as you have had your eyes closed along with your mind. For godsake take some basic science courses. And stop being Mr. Know-it-all long enough to learn something. All the bvlusterting about how much you know is the surest sign that a LITTLE knowledge is a dangerous thing; that's what you have: a LITTLE. I've been studying all the science courses relating to addiction, in the science departments of accredited colleges on TOP of my lifelong addiction and treatment with methadone. I am in my 60s and rarely lose patience except when dealing with an a***h*l*.

PLEASE GET IN YOUR LUXURY GERMAN CAR AND GO AWAY.

You think you know something? You'd do well to listen. Many people here, with their mistaken facts, are still more knowledgeable than you as your mind id CLOSED. Get a grip. Leave the rest of us alone; kick your refrigerator or split some firewood or do something to get all that aggression off but doesn't hurt people as well as misleading the already-misled.

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Georgie As long as you are in the doors before close time you should be allowed in. Over the years I have been in several clinics that operate in this manner but.. I have also found clinics will do what they please so if they want you there earlier be there. They should post to be there earlier. You can contact state rep. but I believe in this case the clinic will win but still inquire.

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Genevieve, It seems most clinics do operate by their own rules and yes DR's do play god bouncing us back and forth. When we first signed up at your clinic you should have been given your rights booklet and it should have listed a patient advocate, call it. No clinic likes to hear from them! In the past I spoke with [email protected] and she gave me alot of info. If you don't have the advocate number call Herman Keifer and they will give you the number in Lansing. I know this all takes time and I feel most clinics do what they want. There is a Harm Reduction Policy that they should honor but most don't. Please make the calls tomorrrow as you know the sooner the better. If you can't find the number let me know and I will get them for you

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Well it is illegal to just cut a person right off of methadone, and not only is it illegal but METHADONE WITHDRAW CAN N WILL KILL YOU!!!! If you have a history and have been on methadone for a long period of time you have a higher chance of death .. Please educate yourself on the subject b4 giving bad info!! And it is FEDERAL LAW TO ATLEAST GIVE A 21 DAY ADMINISTRATIVE DETOX!!' Please take advantage of the grievances that can b filed !! RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILTYS !!!!

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Jasonr~ y don't u go play on the highway!!

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Dude, you can not go to another clinic my husband has gone to ALL of them, same thing happens they are all on each others side, now they have taken his step six from him (only going in 1 a month) he has been on methadone 26 years and now they have started diverting him (lowering his dose without consent). This is happening because of how they are licensed

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You also should read 42 CFR 8.12 et. seq. code of federal regulations which every methadone clinic in Massachusetts violates at least a half dozen sections of, so it is likely your civil malpractice action in Ohio against Comp Drugs Inc can also cite your clinics violations of controlling federal law. 5 mg per day reduction here is the worst any program does and only violence can justify the kind of rapid detox you mentioned so I believe you can win in court for your Doctors malpractice and your Clinic's intentional infliction of pain and suffering. Quick research on the net (below) shows that program violated the medical norm of 2 to 5 mg per week which would not result in withdrawl pain and suffering. If you get your records and a copy of your programs rule manual would be glad to help you draft complaint to force prositive chance at no cost. Mike DuPont {edited for privacy}

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“Discontinuation of DOLOPHINE (Methadone) for Pain

When a patient no longer requires therapy with DOLOPHINE for pain, use a gradual downward titration, of the dose every two to four days, to prevent signs and symptoms of withdrawal in the physically-dependent patient. Do not abruptly discontinue DOLOPHINE.

Induction/Initial Dosing for Detoxification and Maintenance Treatment of Opioid Addiction

For detoxification and maintenance of opioid dependence methadone should be administered in accordance with the treatment standards cited in 42 CFR Section 8.12, including limitations on unsupervised administration.
Medically Supervised Withdrawal After a Period of Maintenance Treatment for Opioid Addiction

There is considerable variability in the appropriate rate of methadone taper in patients choosing medically supervised withdrawal from methadone treatment. Dose reductions should generally be less than 10% of the established tolerance or maintenance dose, and 10 to 14-day intervals should elapse between dose reductions. Apprise patients of the high risk of relapse to illicit drug use associated with discontinuation of methadone maintenance treatment.â€

rxlist.com/dolophine-drug/indications-dosage.htm

Wikapedia “When detoxing at a recommended rate (typically 1-2 mgs per week), withdrawal is either minimal or nonexistent, as the patient's body has time to adjust to each reduction in dose. However, like methadone, buprenorphine produces similar cognitive dehabilitation in multiple areas of mental function in both memory and timed choice task tests, which may persist after cessation of substitution treatment.â€

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone

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How's it feel to be totally wrong? It is the closest to impossible that you could ever know in life but there are a % of people whom successfully get off methadone. Not arguing it's easy, it's not, the most difficult in the world but NOT impossible. First of all no one and I mean no one needs to be at 100mg. If I had the authority to speak at every clinic or print pamphlets for new patients I would get each individual at a stable dose-not to exceed 75mg. At that point educate and educate some more about what happens in the brain, why the brain/body needs the help that methadone clearly does.

There are 5 reasons why people get hooked on opiates/heroin. 1.Pain, 2.To get high, 3. Depression, 4. Boredom, 5. Coping with a tragedy. In order for one to successfully get off methadone one or more of all those 5 reasons need to be dealt with first or failure is the only result. Back to educating. Once the patient is stable if taken down slowly, even 1 or 2 mg a month the patient can successfully prevail. Now remember the 5 issues that need to be dealt with first, without it, failure is inevitable. It's easier for young people whom get hooked out of boredom or just to get high to successfully walk away-and even that takes a lengthy time. If you are a patient whom without a doubt because of reasons of chronic pain for one, you most likely will be on it for life. Look at it as how people with diabetes or high blood pressure need to take their medications daily and don't allow ignorant people to look down on you for what you need to take. No one deserves to live in pain. Say this to the hypocrites "if you judge me, without any other reason than taking a drug, if you are caught up with me and my problems then you are saying you know more than God. And by the way, anybody can have an accident whether their fault or not and end up with crushed legs(example) and I don't think that's the way they would want to find compassion for people whom need pain medication or got hooked on it"-or worse their kids,etc. Irk the heii out of me cause most haven't a clue and think they're immune to life and what life can bring. I know people whom successfully got off of methadone by weening very slow, it's a lengthy process but NOT impossible. They now wake with natural energy and are functioning human beings. But they are young and got hooked for reasons as I mentioned , mainly to get high. As far as the original question: That Dr. is not in his legal right and if all what you say is only facts, start out with grievances at main office. Careful what Lawyer if any you talk to cause even though they swear to an oath, you see what happened with the Dr. who had to swear to an oath. They are all humans no.1 and have prejudices like anybody else so be careful whom you talk to. In the meantime find another clinic, you can't just walk away. There are a certain % whom die from this, who wants to find out if they are in that %? @BEAUTIFUL DISASTER-THERE'S NOTHING BEAUTIFUL ABOUT YOU, ONLY IGNORANCE, BE CAREFUL KARMA CAN BE A MF

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@welllaidourbedofroses--I apologize to you and will rephrase just that part. The "average" person needs no more than 75--and I'm giving leverage.60mg is actually efficient to most without special needs due to liver,etc. I started on 30, next day 40, next 45, and after that for the rest of the month the clinic allowed the patient to go up 5mg every 3 days up to 120, to go beyond 120 you then had to have good reason, talk to the Dr. etc. I stayed at 55mg for a couple years. Never went above 100 and didn't want to get that high of dose but had reasons to. When I was ready to come off I decreased slowly and at 38mg can walk in 85-90 degree weather sweating profusely and was able to sustain the 38mg. Naturally I talked to my counsselor, Dr. and they both agreed by exercising that was producing natural endorphins. I'm at 32 and it is getting tough now. Everybody has that number that is hard to get by. But I am determined and hopefully I will succeed. It takes a long long time no matter how the individual goes about it and I'm not so sure the amount of desire to quit does much of a % . Reason being the physical dependence. Please realize I do NOT judge anybody, that comment that I responded to ticked me off cause people like that think they're immune to what life can bring. I'd bet both thumbs that if any of us could just walk away from this we would. I may be on it another 2 years or more and I accept that but I have been judged by family members more than anyone and they haven't a clue. Those receptors I spoke of can continue to grow and grow and once they're open they need filled. Weening down closes then just like a store closes it's doors but it's still very difficult. I admit I am more functional with it because the reason I got in treatment was for pain, and if you remember the 5 reasons people get hooked "pain" is one of those. So it's known the reason one started in the first place needs to be addressed before successfully getting off entirely, so with me without anything I would most likely look for relief from my pain. Again the walking,exercising does help quite a bit but what if I was not on any dose at all, then what? Any Intelligent response would be appreciated to that question but I just don't like when people with double digit I.Q.'s whom know nothing about this can only call names and think of us as addicts. I'd love to look in their closet. Projection: He/she whom cuts people up usually don't have a high value of themselves. I do value myself and regardless if I die with methadone in my body I will die with my head held high. I hope you understand and accept my apology cause I can't imagine needing to be as high a dose as you are and you have good reason, I hope someday there will be an answer for your problem. But I say God bless and I sincerely wish you the best. One last thing: do for you what you know is right for your personal needs and try not to let anybody get to you, I'll get at them for you-lol-but again, no one needs to know all of your business either. I say keep the circle small. Mainly yourself, a professional and your counselor. Otherwise you get judged by ignorance and overwhelmed by clueless people. Thanks for listening.

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Have you tried contacting your states methadone authority? I am a methadone patient as well, and I have been at the same clinic for ten years. I am (or was until today), phase f, which means I am a once a month take home doser. I am at 140 mg per day. I took a drug screen a month ago and they said it came back dirty for opioids, and I was accused of relapsing, which I did not do. They sent the screen back off for gcms confirmation, and it came back dirty again, and the substance was morphine. There is only one problem with that result...and that problem is....I have never used morphine in my entire life. My drug of choice, and the drug that I came to my clinic to get off of was heroin, not morphine. I honestly have never relapsed in the entire ten years I have been a methadone patient. They took all 27 of my take homes from me today and I have to go daily for thirty days and have atleast two clean drug screens before they will give me my take homes back. I keep thinking about the day I took that screen over and over, and I honestly think my urine was mislabeled. There were two of us patients in the lab, with one counselor, our labels are always already filled out before we come out of the bathroom with the urine. The labels are never shown to us, and sometimes, there are more than one cup of urine on the table at one time. The day this happend, that was the case. I never even thought of this happening to me bc I am clean, and always have been since the day I walked into my clinic. I never, in my worst nightmares, ever thought this could happen to me, or anyone like me, who is truly clean, and truly does work the program like they are supposed to. I am in the process of talking with my clinic director and my states methadone authority about our drug screen collection procedures. I don't know if it's going to do any good, but I am still going to try. I think you should contact your states methadone authority and discuss the situation, bc what they are doing to you could potentially kill you, my friend.

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Just remember most clinics do as they want, make up the rules as you go along. There are legal rules and guidelines set up by the federal government. Contact your state rep should have been on the paperwork most of us never bothered to read as we are so sick when entering the clinics. Macomb County can contact Care. Alot of times it will be posted on the wall back in counselors area where it say min. wage and things like that. You can even call another clinic to get the number if you don't want to ask at yours. Also Samhsa 1-877-Samhsa-7. In my view some of the lengthy texts lose some of the interest when trying to find something out.

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People cannot go from 180mg of methadone to suboxone. It has been awhile since I learned about suboxone but as far as I knew you have to be opiate free for at least a week or more and your dose (Methadone) has to be around 30mg for it to even work. I worry when ppl get wrong information. What if this person was told this would work and they get it illegally? It would send them into immediate withdraws on the high dosage they are on.

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In regards to the recent comments on Suboxone: A couple years ago I did some research on Suboxone and what I found terrified me ! Suboxone was NEVER intended for long term use and was found to have a 80% suicide rate for those long term patients who slowly tapered off . The alarming rate of suicides were linked to a lack of endorphins in the brain and it was found that the Suboxone not only cause the brain to stop producing endorphins it damaged the endorphin receptors causing a unmanageable depression that could not be reversed. In closing I ask people to please do research before starting any medication because more often than not a doctors top priority is the incentives offered by the pharmaceutical companies NOT the patient........

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I agree. In fact, it seems like the clinics or at least the one the original post is talking about cares more about protecting themselves from their own mistakes instead of genuinely helping people or even honestly believing people can recover fully from addiction yet they supposedly support this & are teaching it; at least enough to get millions of dollars in funds each & every year. It really comes down to the money. They take their yearly funds straight away- don't really care if the patient makes it through that year or not- they got the money already. They don't want sued so they back up their corrupted doctors & their malpractice instead of correcting them & getting a real doctor. We clearly are not people in their eyes. One doctor at this same clinic told me personally we didn't need emergency medical treatment & the scripts they give us in an emergency unless we are dead or dying-we don't need. This s*** is so inhumane. Its called practice what you preach! They are quick to punish but it takes years to be rewarded with those take- homes which get snatched away if you sneeze wrong. They are now saying we cannot have over the counter meds & any prescription medications even in an genuine emergency situation. They want to control everything but yet don't want to actually do any work like examining us or providing our overall care-yet somehow they are able to over-step doctors who actually do evaluate our emergencies & with the knowledge of our doses, length of time etc. Tell me, how is it that a script writing- no real medical examination- psychiatrist is able to over-step the entire emergency department staff including several doctors who did evaluate you? How would they possibly even know what's best when they do not examine your medical situation? All they do is adjust the methadone & try to give you psych drugs or make you go somewhere for em-like their own clinic psych doctor? Seriously, if this aint corrupt- I don't know what is...

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Does any one know the legal limit they can detox you per day I'm on 75mgs and since my insurance cut off after 5 months out of no where now there taking me down 2 Mgs a day is that even legal in the state of Maryland?? Please help

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I think you asked some really good questions & I can also answer those questions. Before I do, I think I would like to elaborate on a few things about this clinic that may be mistaken easily. There are different departments that are supposed to work together for the benefit of the patient. This is an individual program with multi-faceted resources & levels of care. this clinic has an outstanding clinical perspective! Meaning the counselors, clinical & asst, directors are phenomenal & I strongly feel this is where patients truly recover. The services this department offers, genuinely, humanely, & authentically involves itself with patients & truly takes each persons situation into account. This has effectively made it possible to weed out those who may or may not be "playing games" while correctly identifying problem areas patients may need current work on as well as encourages those who are truly doing well & who has & is dealing with their s*** to continue to do well, remain stable & earn those other privileges that may be offered such as take-homes. Make no mistake patients must deal with their own s***, in order to successfully recover. The patients true sobriety is 100% up to them & the work they are willing to put into it. What we are discussing here is not those "life on life's terms" issues. What is happening here, what patients are trying to describe in this forum is that there really is some seriously inhumane, discriminative, & out-right injustices concerning medical decisions being made at CompDrug currently. CompDrug is not by no means new to this game- 'the addiction or the treatment thereof'. Compdrug has successfully treated patients with opioid addiction for the past 40-50 years & has had the ability to discern between those who may or may not be "playing games". This is their profession! Now after all these years, after a new medical director- our medical department has lost the ability of discernment & is effectively moved into discrimination by literally assuming you are "playing games" rather then finding out "if" you really are "playing games". I was taught in addiction to look for patterns, those patterns will no doubt display what's going on. believe me, if your not doing the right thing- it will come out in the wash- it always does. But to put people's health at risk, & the very lives of mothers & babies, senior citizens just because your afraid we're all "playing games" IS discrimination, negligent & malpractice. The center of care is no longer about patients recovery. It centers itself around deception. This is not healthy on either part, staff or patient alike. In regards to whether or not the patient who was ordered bed rest while in high-risk pregnancy, again for the past 40-50 years we have successfully dealt with high risk pregnant mothers & never has there been a time when those orders were not respected & allowed because the risk of not allowing it was far greater, despite dirty UAs. If the mother is struggling to stay clean now, there is a correct response to this & again it is highly individualized. NO rule should be clear across the board in our program because it was never meant to be one size fits all. They are meant as guidelines, not do-or-die. We all have different circumstances, hence the ability to have discretion. I know the methadone maintenance saves lives & can actually spare the unborn child many risks versus the mother not having the treatment. I just cannot understand how we were able to effectively do this for so long but now all of the sudden, everybody's a liar. nobody deserves treatment or emergency medications, over the counter medications like Benadryl?? Seriously, Despite how we feel, this is way over board. It is not healthy & the impact it is having is life-threatening, creating instabilities with mental health & sobriety to say the least & in direct contradiction with the values of recovery that our organization has been teaching for the past 40-50 years. Regarding federal, state, & local laws as well as the laws on how to operate methadone programs, discretion is given & highly suggested on an individual basis, especially in high risk pregnancies this I have studied for myself. Listen, Im not blaming the clinic for all patients problems nor am I even making excuses. Just because patients are the ones needing help doesn't mean that what's happening here isn't wrong or that the medical department isn't discriminating against all patients for the actions of maybe a few. And so many wonder why it is so hard to recover from all the stigmas, prejudices, & discrimination... especially when you feel it from the place you are trying so hard to recover from your addiction at. This place has saved so many lives & its not too much to ask to keep that ability to remain sober, stable, & in continuous growth. Some of the bad choices our medical team has made recently has caused great harm on some of the patients there- there just simply is no doubt about this. I am not saying that's happened to everyone there. But it is happening & at a more alarming rate due to incorrect, unjustified, discriminative fears &/or assumptions. As with addicts, we have to be responsible for our mistakes, clear them up & make them right. Why is it so hard for these so called professionals to take responsibility for their mistakes, clear them up & make them right?? I don't think that's too much to ask, considering they've been able to do this up until now. No something's definitely not right here.. I am most definitely not going to add something to patients responsibilities that is clearly not theirs. Patients have enough rules, regulations, & guidelines to already adhere to. Hence, the most intensive out-patient, medically assisted program in Columbus, Ohio. Its never been a cake-walk for anybody to even become successful & not everyone even makes it! It also doesn't need to be so hard that no one can become or remain successful. That doesn't make sense & that is what's happening right now. I hope it doesn't continue but there are some serious issues within the medical department & no one else is responsible for those mistakes but them.

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I just finished reading your post and I would just like to say a couple things. First off I must thank you for putting the problem so many across the country are facing into words that people that stare down their noses at addicts won't be able to shrug off as the ignorant ramblings of some drug addict making excuses. So many of us with addiction problems are uneducated and maybe don't have the best communication skills etc. and in the 4 yrs I've been in treatment I've noticed that is where it " begins" to fall apart. I'm not from Ohio I'm in TX but I've been following these post and it sounds all to familiar to me. The same things are going on here and in all honesty I've guest dosed all over the country and that mentality of "us against them" was prevalent at every clinic I've attended except one in Austin. The thing about this clinic is that have a recovered addict on staff and I think it works well almost like a mediator between the patient and the rest of the staff. Methadone clinics basically jam two completely different worlds together and it can't be expected to work without effort and understanding from both sides. Personally my opinion is a person isn't capable of understanding something unless they have either lived it or had someone who has lived it explain it in terms they understand. To be clear by no means am I saying to dumb the scientific crap down for us drug addicts I'm actually saying piss on 90% of what the staff things they know about how our minds work and listen to people that have been there.

This isn't a problem that is going away anytime soon it will and has gotten worse. I hate to say it but my life is in worse shape now and I've been clean from the day I started 4 years ago. I managed to stay well employed built and sold one home in CA. Purchased a second home in TX. I've earned 3 different trade licenses. The thing is there is so much more to it than just not getting high. I started treatment at age 35 and I started using at age 11, 24 years I stayed loaded enough that I never had to deal with anything........ I've lost my job, my home, my contractor license, I'm about at the end of my rope that's a lot of feeling I haven't the slightest clue how to deal with and there is more to come. Last week my wife lost her job money is obviously tight and without even asking me what the situation is I've been put on financial detox. As I sit here sweating one minute freezing the next its hard not to be angry and yes ultimately this is my fault I own that part but people are profiting off of my mistakes the least they could do is maybe help me! I got off base and I'm sorry but again your post is awesome and very well written.
Thanks

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Hey Lil! We'll find out today what happens when you stand up for your rights! I found out yesterday (2-27) that I wasn't to be dosed today until I see the Dr. And... be there early! (lol), apparently of the way I treated the Dr the last time I saw her. Btw, my take homes were revoked for 3-1/2 months! More on that later. This is really becoming a freaking nightmare!

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