New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!? (Page 5) (Top voted first)

Hello all,

I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong.

Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc.

The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way.

I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread.

TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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Cory,
Only a narcissist won't admit they are wrong when confronted with the truth of their errors. Ignorance is obviously bliss in your case.

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I don't understand how the pharmacy's are getting away with not disclosing the truth about these pills. They say they are the same but they are not quite the same. They are the same ingredients however they don't work the same because they are time released now. The government is trying to eliminate people becoming addicted as well as eliminate all the death that occur due to prescription drugs. The pharmacy's seem to be caught in the middle of the government the manufactures & the patients.
The patients whom have been taking the prescription medication for a while shouldn't be part of this change that the government is enforcing.
It is not right to change the medicine on patients that have already been taking their medicine responsibly according to how it has been prescribed. What's even worse is to not reveal the change to the patients. The pharmacy 's have even been saying that it is all in their mind. Which leads the patient to either question their own mind or can they trust the pharmacy which gives & make up their medication.
This is unacceptable totally unnecessary & inhumane behavior the way patients are being treated. Something must be done.
But where do you start & who do you hold responsible?

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As an RN with chronic pain from Osteoarthritis, I have been taking hydrocodone 10/325 for 8 years. This is the first time I've ever received the white Watson 853. I had to change pharmacies because my insurance covers my medication at Walgreens only. For the past three weeks I have suffered immensely. I cannot work a 2 hour shift, much less a 12 hour ER shift. I will pay for the medication out-of-pocket until this issue is resolved. I am alerting my insurance company to the problem so I can get reimbursed for the medication. I am also asking a pharmacist at the hospital to analyze the white Watson 853 for the compounding properties. This is ridiculous.
I cannot even work! SAM...BSN

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I agree ive never had a problem with the yellow Norco 10-325 but recently have been given this white oblong Pill Watson 853 which is suposed to be Norco1-325 But It DOESNT WORKfor me either. Frustrating because ive had 3 failed Back Surgeries so I usually take 3 a day which helps but these Watson 853- are not working at all. In one day I took 4 and still nothing. Waste of my money.

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Re: Richard (# 6)

I have been experiencing the same thing. About a year ago the pharmacy I was using changed the yellow norco to white. Said was same thing without the dye. The white didn't seem any different, then I had to change pharmacies. Was alright for a while then this past month I was given the 10/325 mg generic white oblong with Watson 853 imprint on one side/ a slash down middle on other side and I haven't got any pain relief from them. Have taken a total of four in last six hours and still no relief. I finally have taken 3 excedrin and obviously then could tell I took something. Not alot of pain relief at all. I have been on couch since I filled my script on the 20th of August. I have been on the norco since 2005 because of a fractured skull and broken neck. I don't expect meds to be as effective but now with the Watson 853 they don't do as much as even an aspirin. Also feel like withdrawal symptoms. Could a Dr give a script for a placebo without the patients knowledge.

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Re: Verwon (# 1)

All the sudden they are terrible. I've been taking them for years and all the sudden now I feel sickly and sleepy. Something is wrong.

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I heard this was some kind of sting operation by the d.e.a. is that true

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Hi.. I have to tell you the exact same thing is going on here. I have a friend who has a mass on her brain. It's not being monitored.. She gets severe disabling headaches and she loses the sight in one eye. When it gets that bad, everyone tells her (including her own family doc) to go to the E.R...So, she goes in, in tears, screaming in pain. They have given her Tylenol, Ibuprofen and Benadryl and also told her to go home and just learn to live or deal with it. It's to the point where people go in to the E.R., in pain and automatically you are a drug seeker. Yes, I know people like that, who drug seek and abuse the system. They go in to the hospital and every doctor in this valley. They complain that they have a hair that hurts and they walk out with a prescription. People like my friend, who has an honest to goodness documented problem, and they are labeled and refused any narcotic or nausea medication, which there are plenty of non narcotic pain relievers they could try but don't...She's in so much pain that I think she's going to die... I have another friend, who they found a mass on his liver, vomits incessantly, goes into the E.R. and because his girlfriend just happened to mention that he missed a dose of his pain medication the week before, automatically was told he was in withdrawals. And instantly, sent home with nothing for the nausea.. Nothing.. Neither person is a drug seeker. But yet, they go into the emergency room for help and they do nothing but make them feel worthless. This is a sad sad society that a person can't go into the hospital because they are sick or in pain. And they won't not don't, but won't help them. I am so afraid for both of my friend's health. I am really afraid that my friend with the brain mass is going to be driving down the highway someday, and she's going to have a headache and lose the sight in her eye and possibly have an accident. Because even her family doctor won't do something for her..I am afraid for anyone in severe pain who is in a position where they have to go to the hospital and ask for help and then gets turned away because they THINK that they are drug seeking..

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I get norco and the ones I get are watson they were yellow and now they are white and they do not get rid of my pain.

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I used to take Norco, back in the days when they were yellow and shiny and made by Watson and Vintage (the white ones were made by mallinckrodt and were always terrible). The yellow Watson ones -- the originals -- were fairly potent, but they began to gradually decrease in strength over the months, then over the years, etc. Any yellow ones that are in circulation now are not made by Watson and, if so, they are old stock and will be gone once the stores that still have them run out. The yellow ones that people get now are, evidently, Qualitest, which never had a great reputation for potency, either (same as Malinkrodt).
This dilution of active ingredients, i.e. the actual opiate, has been going on for years IMO. We know our bodies best, and we can't all be wrong.
It isn't just the subtraction of active ingredients that is happening, though; they are also adding ingredients to the pills; again, we know our bodies best, and I can say, without hesitation, that this is true.
The medication I am currently taking is generic Subutex (buprenorphine), a mixed agonist/antagonist prescribed for those who have been addicted to opiates. I used opiates for pain for almost three years and decided it was time to get off once my pain became manageable. Subutex helped greatly, basically eliminating withdrawal symptoms and helping me to function normally again. There was an element of pain control in these pills (subutex) that helped with the mild to moderate pain I still experienced, and a lifting of depression, something I've battled with my entire life.
Well, surprise: The Subutex made by Reckett went to generic, and things went downhill from there, not so obviously at first, but gradually. I'm still taking a low dosage of this drug one and a half years later, but the formulation has been altered markedly, to a point where it is now undeniable. Here is what I believe the manufacturers have added to the mix, particularly in the batches released in recent wks/ months: Diphenhydramine, which is Benadryl. I am positive that this is the ingredient that has been added due to the side effects I've experienced-- side effects that I have had when I've used benadryl or any antihistamine products in the past (vivid, long-running dreams, excessive sleepiness, dry mouth upon waking, etc.).
I am going to call the company that makes these pills and file a complaint with Roxane Labs, the company that is releasing this crap into the public.

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Well, open it and you will see the time released pellets. It's not a mystery. I hurt myself on a Xmas hover board,. Of course that makes me a drug addict, I cannot move my arm at all the pain is so bad. My side and my back got it. A huge bruise is coming up all over my butt. I'm staying active, despite everything, screaming in pain half the day, just to not get DVT or something worse clots don't seem healthy. Yet they refuse to make pain pills that work. They don't look like "pellets, but they obviously are. They look like hard pieces. They feel it's their duty or they are taught that I guess, not to tell us "unteachable people", "what we can't understand, right". In fact they might now know. But Watson knows, (not the clerks) Maybe not the nurses. Maybe not the doctors pa's or nurse practitioners. And I'm sure they are not allowed "if they know) that if there is any difference, to tell us would be "bad."

But everybody I know I mean everybody, knows the pills are not as effective. I believe it is forcing people to triple or quadruple their doses, this is more dangerous than hydros were in the past, which is not funny at all. Do they really care about us WE are numbers to them and you know it. Wanna hear a funny First time I got given a hydro it was called Vicodin. Dentist made me swallow it in front of him with water. Even thought it was funny. I stopped at my sister's place on the way home. She's a senior pharmacist in a large chain. Dentist oral surgeon and sister both knew I had a 200 mi drive home. No I didn’t get woozy, nothing like that. The pain went away, that's all. He insisted it was not addictive. The pharmacists were told and they believed, what they had been told, that is wasn't addictive. I said it's what? Made from a poppy? Are all you ppl crazy? It HAS to be addicting. So really, trust your body. They really would take 8 hours to work. But I'm not going to use a street drug. I'm not increasing my dose. And trusting the fda less and less. When I got hurt, I drove, all stiffened up. Could barely move my neck. Was screaming in the car. Didn't take anything till I was off the road, going straight for bed. All stiff from pain. Ultram does not work on me (Tramadol.) I have no idea why. I hate oxys, percs, They work but I don’t like them. I'm like bending in the wind. I don’t have a choice. Hydros are basically a good medicine, if you can get them I think,. Unless you are trying to get a buzz. That's sick imho.

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Mark is correct, at least it's been my experience, also, that the smaller family drugstores will usually carry or will be willing to order something that is closer to the "real thing."

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I think they are at it again. My husband who is in chronic pain got his prescription filled at Wgreens for the first time in Dec 2015. Has been in such pain with no relief until last night I gave him ONE of my hydro-acet 5-325,half as potent as his and he slept like a baby with great relief. Something was wrong with his new meds, the white watson. What do we do now ???? Anyone else out there having issues?

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It seems that all who are posting on this board seem to be having issues, and that is probably just the tip of the iceberg. My opinion? There's "dilution," for lack of the technical term, going on with all narcotic medications. Someone else who claims to have inside knowledge says he was told that it's a government and pharm. company plan to discourage addiction in the face of the current opiate epidemic in the U.S.

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ABellflower you are exactly correct and the new opiate epidemic will be opium from the streets coming across the wide open border of Mexico. This is going to be the new nightmare created by our government with gangs having bloody battles on our streets for territory to sell it. Plus the terrorists are going to be well funded by opium sells here in America, funny the government doesn't see that coming!
What the government is doing is like putting a bandaid on you after walking through a plate glass window and telling you you'll be OK... Their war on drugs has been an epic failure which they refuse to admit, so they stop doctors from treating legitimately suffering human beings which is complete insanity! They can do nothing about street drugs coming into this country and now in the near future it will be an unbelievable epidemic of street drug abuse and many more deaths from overdoses and poisonous toxins used to make the drugs with.
I'm a nobody, but I have enough sense to know if you stop one avenue of abuse of drugs many more will be created. In my opinion pharmaceutical drug abuse is indeed the lesser of two evils because there's no telling what you're getting in a street drug. There's really no good answer to the drug abuse problem in America today, but punishing legitimately suffering people is complete insanity! One thing is for certain though... Anytime the government gets involved in anything the innocent will always suffer and what ever the initial problem was will be made worse because no politician was ever born with any common sense...

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I'm in for a legal suit!!! The fact that our FDA is trying to get away with adding and taking away ingredients and I (we) am dealing with the consequences makes me furious. Big pharma too! Trust me..it is only going to get worse. I've seen the proposals. They are already placing deterrants in the opiates Norco to keep you from getting addicted and that would be okay but now I'm not getting any pain relief and I'm nauseated and sleepy. It's getting scary.

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Lauren, when a pharmacist makes speciality meds, it is referred to as Compounding. They won't be compounding a prescription medication that a manufacturer makes. The meds they compound have different ingredients and amounts than the available prescription drugs/ For example, they would not be compounding a med that was hydrocodone 10 mg/acetaminophen 325 mg, because that is available by prescription. But, they could compound hydrocodone 15 mg/acetaminophen 325 mg because no manufacturer makes that.

michael, Norco Is Habit Forming. It is hydrocodone in either 5, 7.5 or 10 mg and acetaminophen 325 mg. The Brand Names for Hydrocodone and Acetaminophen are Lortab, Norco and Vicodin. A dr can write a prescription and write Norco on it, but that doesn't mean that the insurance company will pay for a Brand due to the cost. If the dr wants a patient to have the brand, they have to write on the prescription Dispense As Written or Generic Selection Not Permitted. But, that doesn't mean that the insurance company will pay for it.

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Jesse,

You might go to a mom and pop pharmacy (not a big name pharmacy) and ask if they can order the Brand for you. They are much better at this and usually will but you may have to pay out of pocket which I think would be worth it.

I definitely did not know that about generics. That is ridiculous, especially when you think you are getting one thing but actually you are getting another. Wow! No wonder they are so cheap.

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Kate, wal-greens does that to most people now especially if they do not have a life-threatening illness. It is not just you. Try not to let things like that upset you. If you legitimately need the medication, you should not let someone else make you feel as tho you don't. Go to a mom and pop pharmacy and get to know the people there. They need the money and are much nicer to deal with.

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To reiterate what others have already said, not much can be done about this, at least not through conventional means. This problem is something that's being orchestrated from the "untouchables," so to speak. I don't mean to sound so bleak about the situation, but for those who have the patience, here is the patent proposal released by the government in 2013. It gives a rather nebulous picture (done intentionally to confuse the "masses" ) of how they're changing the formulations of all controlled drugs in order to prevent abuse. Key words: ALL controlled drugs, not just the time-released Oxycontins that were originally targeted, but all controlled drugs including benzos, amphetamines, amphetamine combinations, opiates, etc.

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