New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!? (Page 4) (Top voted first)

Hello all, I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong. Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc. The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way. I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread. TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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l too have taken the same pills. your first are sold at cvs. the Watson you speak of is junk, sold at walgreens. the answer of batch imbalance may be true. did you look to see where they were made? its unfortunate but any thing made outside this country is JUNK, walgreens product is!!!

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I have been told by the nurses at the doctors office I been at since I was born that I'm supposed to call my doctor office 5days before I run out an I did they tried to say I was calling in to early I said well you need to tell the nurse that said call in ahead of time at first they looked down at me until I got it straight once they learned one of there own told me to it was all okay then I had been getting shorted a few times on my pain meds at my pharmacy an they told me at my doctors office to ask an look at what type pill they have before getting it filled an to count my meds in the pharmacy's before I leave as once you leave out the pharmacy's with the meds you can't go back in an tell them that there is some missing so I did what they told me an again I get looked as addict junkie then I tell them my doctors office told me to do all that everything was fine from then on now I get the right meds an amounts just not what I was on for 10plus years I'm just tired of all the bs they come up with while telling someone to do this an that an you do an they wanna call ppl junkie addict doctor shopping filling at more than one pharmacy wish I didn't need there meds I would have never took none if I knew then what I'm stuck in an on now

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Anyone can say I'm a doctor like me but I'm not going to believe till its verified and some type of proof. say I'm a real Dr Ken hear speaking an I am a just a person that has some knowledge on these types of meds as I suffer in pain 24/7 an I don't abuse it. I'm on it for legitimate reasons an I know tons of people that are in no pain like us that aren't. Also these people all are doing it and then getting way more than me and I need my meds to get by everyday. Its crazy cause us that need help are being punished all because of those people that don't take them or the people that are junkies, they are messing everything up an its not right for people. I need my meds an the new doctor I got cut my meds I was on for over 10yrs in half, now I get hardly nothing but these people are still living the high dollar life while we suffer, its just not fair

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Has anyone tried getting the media, TV, lawyers or other groups together? We can talk on this site but we need to get this information out there. The CDC is going to lower the doses again next year...pretty soon you won't be able to get any pain meds at all. You'd think there would be some docs who are not happy with being told by the government what they can prescribe, would be willing to stand up for their patients.

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I am am also feeling the swimming head, headaches like I have never had before and feeling like I can't even stay awake

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You are all experiencing what many of us on generic Adderall are dealing with. Fake meds and if we all had enough cash to send a couple pills to LabCorp I bet they wouldn't turn up positive for the active narcotic ingredient. FDA has been told by DEA to turn a blind eye on weak opiated and amphetamined generic meds. They think everyone is just a junky and it will do us some good to have inefficient meds.

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I was having severe muscle spasims to the extreme the spasims broke my #8 rib; so I asked my Doc for valium. My long time and trusted doctor insisted that I try the Watson. He was dismayed when I came back just a little upset, disapointed to say the least. I think you may have stumbled accross something here on these WHITE WATSONS!!! something smells fishy here????

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Hoper posted on February 3, 2016 that there is "no conspiracy going on," and that this current problem re: inferior quality hydrocodone is due to the patient's tolerance.
I think you have oversimplified the issue by a longshot, Hoper, and here is why:
Do you think all of the people who have posted here just suddenly, coincidentally, developed a recent tolerance to the extent that they have all begun to notice a distinct change in the quality of the pill in question? Please note, most of them are increasing their dosages simply to achieve the effect they're used to achieving, but many of them say they still detect a difference in the overall quality of the pill, despite the increased dosages.

As I have stated before - and others have agreed - this is not simply a problem with - oh, here we go again -- the fillers. If that assertion comes down the pike one more time I think I'll vomit. If you want to point to fillers, however, I'll concede this much: It seems almost indisputable to me and to others that they're adding other ingredients to these pills besides the "fillers" of yesteryear. Those fillers were bad enough, but now the pills contain -- again, this is my opinion and that of many others, as well -- other undeclared ingredients along with a decrease in the active narcotic ingredient. You know, the main ingredient that gives the painkiller medication its authenticity.
Well, so much for credibility nowadays.
One more thing: Just because patients are not flooding message boards to express their dissatisfaction with their medication does not mean these people do not exist.
It so happens that many people feel uncomfortable posting on public boards. Just as common a scenario is the one involving complaints to drug manufacturers, the DEA, etc. etc. etc. The majority of people find it easier to do nothing, while erroneously believing that "someone else" will make the calls or do the writing, or start the petition or, well, post on the message board.
My hunch is as I've already said: change will happen - eventually - but not until human lives are either seriously harmed or worse. Then we MIGHT find out just what they've been putting in these bogus pills we're paying out the *** for, generic.



If you read through these posts you'll see that even an increase in dosing does not appreciably alter the overall quality of these corrupted meds. Yes, I said, "corrupted," or "adulterated," or whatever word would be appropriate; it's all the same.

And Hoper, have you thought of it this way? The DEA, along with the pharmaceutical companies and drug manufacturers, medical insurers, and even the large chain druggists, for the most part, all stand to gain from this covert travesty being carried on behind the public's backs. So it's win-win-win-win for those entities, while the patient only stands to lose.

I believe it will take something more serious than the public's collective complaining to any of the above "winners" in this scheme. What it will take is serious illnesses or death occurring as the result of the tampering that we strongly believe is going on right now with pharmaceutical drugs.

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lil T,
That is interesting: You have also noticed the difference, particularly the hardness of the pills.
What I can tell you, though, is that this "hard" quality you mentioned is not limited to street pills. In the last few months I continue to get what I refer to as "mixed batches" of subutex generic pills (CVS pharm). Some of the pills are so hard that they cannot be broken with the fingers -- well, yes, it is possible, but very difficult to do. Other pills in the same batch break in half quite easily, as a normal pill should.

These hard pills have something else in them besides the fillers that were used in the past. They also have a strong, bitter taste - similar to aspirin - which is markedly different from the pills I used to get. Since some of the pills are so hard, it takes longer for them to dissolve under the tongue (they are sublingual medication).

I've already called the manufacturer and complained. I also reported the inconsistency in quality to the pharmacist manager at CVS. I realize this is all for naught. Forget the DEA. The government is not our friend; neither is CVS.

I'm thinking long and hard re: Hoper's advice below. Maybe the best course of action really would be to sign a group petition and present it to the manufacturer. Nothing beats good, solid numbers insofar as effecting change.

Publicity (negative) is another strategy that often produces action on the part of the offender (in this case, the pharm. companies and the government, IMO).

Who wants to take it to their local newspapers, for starters? Or better yet, a major news publisher? I should think we'd first have to have good, solid scientific evidence (laboratory analyses on the pills in question) rather than anecdotal reports.

I know what you're all thinking: That the publicity could turn on us, the very people who are being victimized by drug companies and others.
The minute "pain medication" or "buprenorphine" is mentioned many of us feel defensive or ashamed. We feel "exposed," so to speak, and embarrassed by our dependency on these drugs.

Well, welcome to the world of exploitation by the pharmaceutical industry and others who stand to profit from their greed. They have silenced us through their basic understanding of human nature. They know that people need their products, even if said products have been corrupted and reduced to a fraction of their potency. They know people would rather suffer in silence and spend money they don't have in order to acquire the pills they need.

It seems that not only the drugs are controlled; so are we.

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As most of us all know the trillionaires of the world otherwise known as the secret society who now not only own all the federal reserve banks in the world, now have purchased all of the pharmaceutical companies. They're intentions are not good therefore I don't think there's a solution. They also own the media so that we are not able to hear the truth, also responsible for spraying Durham, Mercury and many other cancer causing and heart attack causing ingredients from planes, the purpose of this being they are in canyon to eliminate 80% of the population. Really really sad. They have gone from one country to another threatening the leaders of these countries to pay back all debts which is impossible to be done so therefore they must join forces with the evil or simply be replaced.

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Never use chain stores to fill prescriptions. Find a local drug store and fill your scripts there. I've been dealing with pain due to a disease for years and found it much more enjoyable to deal with mom and pop pharmacy I'll never go back to a chain. Ie. Walgreens, cvs, grocery stores.

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For anyone who still feels confused about what is happening to the potency of their medications, PLEASE do yourself a favor and read my back-to-back posts from March 21, 2016. You will then realize that switching from one manufacturer to another (generics vs. brand name) or buying from private druggists vs. chain stores won't really bring any satisfactory change.

The problem is that most scheduled drugs have been going through stages in the manufacturing process that will give them abuse-deterrent properties. It's all being done to curb the prescription drug (and opiate epidemic) in America. The only entities that stand to really gain from this are the pharm. companies, the middlemen, and the government itself. Patients in very serious pain will only lose. And they won't be the only ones.

As someone else posted on this thread, some people will more than likely take more of the drug than they should, thinking they will receive a higher dose of narcotic when, in actuality, they will also be taking in more of the TRULY harmful chemicals (e.g. acetaminophen, aspirin, etc). causing damage to the liver and/or kidneys, etc. Just as dangerous, there will also be (unwise) people who head straight for illicit drugs to get relief if taking the pills fails to "deliver."

Obviously, there will be no advantage at all in increasing dosage of the drug since the new formulations are "abuse deterrent," meaning they have ingredients in them that will cause a person to feel uncomfortable or, generally, unwell if they exceed a certain dose. All of this is being done so that a person won't succeed in getting any feelings of euphoria or a "high" from the meds. The feelings of energy some people have described having felt from the pills of the past will be diminished, as well.

Since (presumably) most consumers are not aware of the specifics involved in making their medications less prone to abuse , they will also not likely understand why they feel sick to their stomachs or why their head is throbbing with a terrible headache. Nor will they understand the mental changes, such as depression. These symptoms will result because the drugs are now made to cause unpleasant symptoms if a person takes more than a certain amount -- Well, now, that's the question, isn't it? .... more than what amount? Who determines that? Particularly with generics, where the amount of the active ingredient is already so variable?

Short of becoming a lobbyist or joining a protest group, there is little one can do about the situation right now, a problem made worse by the fact that we are in an election year in the U.S. There are always those politicians with personal motives behind issues such as this one.

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I just got a script for the new Watson hydracodone. No relief I've been taking h.c. for 5 yrs. For chronic pain in my legs and shoulders. I no when something's amiss. Somebody is playing games with chronic pain sufferers

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MandyShea, Yes, you said it right. I didn't realize this "quality reduction" campaign, if you will, also included cancer drugs, antibiotics, etc., but I might have guessed, considering the magnitude of dishonesty rampant in the pharmaceutical industry, both in the U.S. and abroad.

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ABellflower I couldn't have said it better myself except to add the dishonesty of the government and its agencies too. The abuse excuse will also be used for many decades to reformulate every narcotic analgesic each time the current patent comes close to expiring so the pharmaceutical companies can keep the strangle hold on their patents.
The sad thing about it all is the suffering human beings that no one seems to care about. Unfortunately a whole lot of people are going to have to live with no quality of life and kill themselves before anything is done about it. It will take a huge outcry from the public to change. We're the extreme minority, so don't hold your breath! Make no mistake about this, it's all about pharmaceutical companies profits, lobbyist money, pack money and campaign money! The government will never win the war on drugs so their going after the easiest target to claim an empty victory, us the suffering citizens.
I wonder what the government's excuses/lies will be when street drug abuse and crime from it blows up in their faces from this whimsical witch hunt on narcotic analgesics? I hope they all wind up like us, suffering with little to no relief. That would be justice!

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This medication has changed... They aren't the same as the yellows... This is bull...and paying the high prices...

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Ellie, it is doubtful your were prescribed any prescription drug that contains more than 325 mg of tylenol. If you were, you weren't able to get it filled. Manufacturers stopped making them in 2014.

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I completely agree with you about how they treat you as a criminal! And it is embarrassing. They've done this to me and my mother. They do mess with your prescriptions too.override things and get into your business. I feel this is not their concern, it is my doctors. This is becoming very stressful for ppl.who do suffer from chronic pain.unfortunately with all the junked out dope heads,we have to suffer now.also get treated like your some kind of crack head,trying to just get your pain meds in order to function and live a normal life! I feel your pain,right there with ya.

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Activis bought out Watson now these pills are completely Junk. Hell I can eat 4 10s and yawn feel not a damn thing. Yup we are screwed!!!!!

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Got some of these white 853's. I'm led to believe that these def have tramadol in them. How do i know? ez.

Ultram/tramadol causes me to have seizures. I'm not epileptic. I've never had a seizure from pain meds or any other meds besides the trams. Until i took two 853's.

Full on seizure.

You can have 100 pharmacists tell me there's no difference, just the dye, but my body says otherwise. They feel like taking too much cough medicine. they also make it hard to think clearly, which is a pain when your job requires you to troubleshoot. Not to mention barely any pain relief. Goes to show you cant trust anyone. Do your own research.

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