New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!? (Page 13) (Top voted first)

Hello all, I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong. Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc. The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way. I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread. TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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KLH, I am glad to hear your pain has been relieved via the current pain medications that are available. However, these drugs are formulated differently from the way they were in the past. In your post you refer to the yellow Watsons (they were the "Norco" brand and contained a lower dose of acetaminophen combined with 10 mg of hydrocodone). If you were to get those yellow pills in today's market you'd find them to be quite inferior from the way you remember them. The reasons for the changes in potency are here on post #334.

The pills of today have been going through a gradual metamorphosis thanks to efforts by the government (in conjunction with the drug companies, scientists, etc.) to make narcotic prescription drugs less susceptible to abuse; in other words, they've been on a mission to make all controlled drugs more resistant to abuse and to tampering. They've added lots of different "stuff" to controlled drugs that make it almost impossible to feel euphoric (something that painkillers were meant to provide, considering people in legitimate pain don't want to feel worse than they already do), and they've attempted to impose a "ceiling effect" on controlled drugs, i.e. once you've exceeded a certain amount of the drug you won't necessarily get a "better" effect and you most certainly won't feel euphoric. You'll probably just feel kind of sluggish and maybe nauseated.

If you are achieving adequate pain control then your pain is being ameliorated by the acetaminophen they're putting in the pills.

G.I. distress is one of the signs you've taken too much of the drug, and this is done deliberately by the powers-that-be to discourage abuse.

So here is the way I see it, for what it's worth. The prescription drug epidemic will diminish thanks to what I just posted above (government, drug companies, etc. collaborating to discourage abuse and tampering) and doctors taking a less liberal approach to dispensing those medications. BUT for people who are legitimate chronic pain patients there may be 3 options: Consider morphine or something stronger in patch form (not sure if they've figured out how to diminish the potency of patches yet), accept the fact that "it is what it is" and use alternative, natural methods to fight the pain.

For recreational drug users who already had a taste of the old, preferred pain meds, the option many of them will choose is obvious. For new users many will probably go right to illicit drugs since doctors are under the gun to curb liberal prescribing practices and the new formulations of prescription drugs are just sub-par, in my opinion. There. I said a whole lot, but you form your own opinion.

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I don't know what it is but I have experienced the exact same issue!!

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There is definitely something going on with our opioid meds and it's with politics interfering and the accompanying DEA mandates. They don't differentiate between those that have chronic issues and those stealing them from their parents or buying them "on the streets" for the "high", hence, accidental overdosing. So, we who have chronic issues with genuine intent have to suffer. When we have reason to believe the strength has been tampered with or we suffer from side effects from a different manufacturer, people have the increased forum replies. We don't always accept replies or the excuses because we individually have different responses to the new brand name med's effects or we get pure mad at the meddling for those with legitimate needs. I am one.

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Need to find pharmacy in Michigan that still carries 10-325 in yellow! In too much pain, to say, Government !!! This is what I was told, from pharmacist, pharmaceutical company is getting pressure from FDA, won't let them release medication, that works, due to regulations!! Government on big push, to clean up opioid epidemic !! So they create bigger epidemic, by allowing crap pills to flood the market. Make themselves look good, cleaning up crap, they created!! Leaving those of us, who are seriously hurting, screwed, and in severe pain!

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Re: Robin (# 358)

I just now have seen your post. I have had ongoing digestive problems, quite severe, for a good yr if not a little longer. Symptoms being nausea, major bloat, off and on, along with not able to eat much, as I get so full eating a quarter of a sandwich, feels like I just ate a huge Thanksgiving dinner. My Dr ordered evaluations n sent me to specialist, (gastroenterologist). Colonoscopy and stomach scope was performed. Results said only a small hernia between esophagus, n where the stomach meets. Specialist insisted that the hernia was too small to cause my symptoms. I was so discouraged not getting any answers. I then went to another gastroenterologist, which was a worse experience than the first one seen. This specialist outright blamed a all my problems on the opioid pain pill. I have taken it many yrs. So I didn't understand how out of nowhere it would cause me to bloat n retain so much fluid. Nausea constant n vomiting mire often than not. I wouldn't have any warning when I was going to be sick. As well as experiencing ungodly pain in court my stomach. Weight fluctuating where I back n forth from size 0-2 to size 4-5 and not being comfortable in the 5's because the stomach blows up so large. Is gradually tapering down taking a probiotic twice a day. Now I am able to eat a piece if chicken and handful of fries or half cup of mashed potatoes, however it's a gradual process where I can't eat it all in one sitting. Because of the fullness so quickly, so it takes me several hrs to eat that amt of food. The specialist couldn't find me answers. So I just deal with it. I get really hungry and for some reason to drink milk, it goes down so much easier. I don't get full on it, like food effects me. Actually started when the Norco was changed to a different brand. I didn't put that together until reading your post.

Is anyone else out there experiencing any similar symptoms since changing brands and/or drug manufacturers, along with the medicine not being effective anymore, since the opioid epidemic started? We all need to speak out. Those of us living with chronic pain, that is going to continue and possibly get worse as time goes on, depending what each individual condition or injury is because it's not an option for the majority of us to not have pain med if we want to function. It's not helping us with the companies changing the medicine, whatever they're doing to it. I am glad to know it's not just me experiencing this. Come on all. There is strength in numbers. We have to be not only heard, but listened to. For most chronic pain sufferers, addiction to a pain medicine isn't a concern because we have to have it to live and function with the physical pain. It's not going to go away for a lot of us. We shouldn't be singled out due to the strength of Norco being changed by the companies. It is wrong. Must be a better way to correct the problem with the ppl on streets getting ahold of it for recreation. I don't understand that. I take four a day. When the Norco weren't messed with, they did give some relief. My blood pressure is high now because of pain. Norco, Watson and the m367 are even worse.

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Re: Tootie (# 3)

I have never been given any "white" Norco that has worked for me. Never. There is something about them and my body, they are not effective for me. Of course, I have for years taken the yellow ones and suddenly I get the white ones and they are generic hydrocodone. I cannot do generic on most medications for some reason and I can tell you in a "blind" test which one is generic. For a long time my Doctor questioned my problem with them, but we did a little test and she was then convinced that I was telling the truth. Back to the white Norco. I started taking them yesterday and I am in horrible pain. I believe I would get more relief from Tylenol at this point. I just called my Pharmacy about these pills and decided to look further into this pill. I ran across the post above and now it is beginning to make sense. I hope someone can help find out the problem. This is totally NOT RIGHT!!!

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Centrifuging determines the strength of a 10/325. To take 10 milligrams of codeine and 325 milligrams of acetaminophen and mix them together only produces acetaminophen and codeine. Centrifuging coaleses and bonds the ingredients together to make a much more robust and potent medication. So, the difference is coalescing rather than mixing. My experience is the Qualitest exhibit qualities consistent with centrifuging

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Seriously seriously b careful with Walgreens oxy 10 325 they are WORSE WAY WORSE THAN THE NORCOS AND HYDROCODONE

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Yes I was told by the pharmacist that the generics could have + or - of 20%. Meaning more than likely they are putting less pain med and more fillers.

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I to am not one to complain and have tje same problem with the yellow ones in the past and the white m366 i to have wondered if they been altered, we are not the only ones complaining

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I also have no good results with Watson 853. This is the first time that I have been given these from the pharmacy. They absolutely do not work it's like taking nothing. I asked several different Pharmacy's why they went to these pills and they said they were cheaper. But I ppaid 70 more dollars for these than I used to pay so not cheaper for me.I told them sometime cheaper is not better. My Dr. told me in generics they a 20% minus or 20% plus in ingredients, so this one must be 20% minus.

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What happened that made her almost die? Sounds like a major legal suit to me. What happened to make the police involved? What state are you in?

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Switch to IP 110 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone 325 mg / 10 mg) the other is bogus. Hope helps. Being bed ridden is not fun... I know

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Its not been that long I actually messed my own self up as I listened to some people thinking I had no clue what subutex was an they said you can go get put on these an all your pain an suffering will be gone, all would be better. so I would not have to take all those pain meds, that subutex is all I need. so I did nothing wrong to or at my doctors office. went to this place to get put on subutex. I was told I'd get the script an be at home. I got there, did the process, seen a doctor, then got a number an got taken to the end of a long line. I had to drive 100 miles to get there, then dose there and then drive 100 miles back home. they told me they take medicaid an medicare but lie #2 cost me $1134.00 a month cash. I get a monthly check an have a family of 4 an get $889.00 a month. I made it 3 months an I just could not do it an I was in pain so bad so its then I found out it was to get off opiate's an they meant the emotional pain not all my pain problems. so by then I'm in so much pain I had fell due to nerve damage. my left leg gives out a lot an I fall, I'm supposed to use a cane. well the place I went to was dirty, got shut down. they found out that the doctor had ppl going there an also he had another office family medicine office an he had ppl going to both giving out scripts of any meds you could buy. so they caught them shut both office's down an found baby and child porn on his computers. not saying all the women he slept with for meds also. so he got put in jail an what he deserves. so I go back to my doctor an had to start at the bottom again an as he was getting me back to get my pain under control he got me back on the oxycontin Er an roxicodone ir. he retired an a new female doctor didn't want to write what I had been on for over 10 years with no problems. I never abused my needed meds. she cut me more than in half so I got to go with what I can but its one hell of a true life story. I lived it an now I'm still suffering from a ton of lies an no paperwork an its not found in the database so it was a waste of some of my life an I'm paying for 1 doctors nasty dirty mistakes and I hope the inmates show him how it feels. Sorry so long and to anyone make sure things are legit before making any changes. Thanks.

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Queeniek, what information is it that you're looking for ?

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queeniek, you can go to the Board Of Pharmacy website for your state. They usually have the current state laws there. You can also put, your state name laws governing controlled substances, in google You can put, DEA controlled substances, in google for federal laws.

You also may want to go to the link below. The CDC has opened a public comment period for their Proposed 2016 Guideline for Prescribing Opioids for Chronic Pain.

Proposed 2016 Guideline for Prescribing Opioids for Chronic Pain-
regulations.gov/#!docketDetail;D=CDC-2015-0112

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Hello everyone. I am a person that has been disabled from age 22 to 38 an I'm still not able to work due to a ton of pain issue's. It all started in my spine and lifting hundreds of pounds in rock, brick, block cement and running a mixer all-day an some days mixing by hand. I also did roofing in those years as well so it got to where I couldn't hardly sit, stand, stay bent over, or walk. so much pain but yet my legs felt numb like no movement. I did alot of tests an they said I was fine but with that much pain I said to them something's wrong. So I got sent to UVA in Charlottesville Virginia an that's when they saw I had Degenerative Disc Disease also known as DDD, also nerve damage an my left leg just giving out whenever it wants, causing me to fall. So I went thru 2 plus yrs on every inj. an meds you can think of. Finally got it right so from age 22 to 30 been through it an tried it all. Tens unit, non narcotics, narcotics, physical therapy. So by age 30 I was on 2 30mg real oxycontin formula an 12 30mg roxicodone ir. Did that up to age 36 and tried to get off it with subutex. It did nothing, now I'm back on my meds but not close to what I was on for years in high doses. Now I'm only on 2 20mg Oxycontin Er an 4 15mg roxicodone ir a day and its a big drop but I'm still in pain an sick everyday. They should have did it backwards, what I'm on now should have been then and amped it up now since I'm worse which I never tried any of it. Wish I could take medical cannabis.

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Ive seen a few posts @ some of you wanting to switch to oxy 10//325. PLEASE B Careful as actavis/watson has altered the percocet too. (walgreens and cvs) they re marked A333, and if you search med chat more you will find a whole thread actually 3 threads about the percocet /oxycodone 10/325. In my opinion Qualitest is/has been consistent in quality. Rhodes is ok, ive always done well with Mallinkrofdt hydrocodone but i have not had that brand in percocet. Im in Fl and i thought it was a conspiracy that was going on in Fl Being where there WAS a large amount of pill mills at one time. Not anymore they have now scared the Pharmacists and dr.s, i belong to a group of ppl who are very active. Yes many of us are n bedjail (thats what what i call it) there are many petitions you can sign and send to many representatives at one time. Like it will go to the senator and officials in your area. A lot of our members have reached out to an Orlando news reporter, he has just been reporting how its been hard in FL to get your C11 meds filled, Well just wanted to warn you all that just changing to percocet, still stay clear of Actavis/PERIOD. Also my son has medicaid and u have to choose an HMO, u r only allowed to use Wal-mart or CVS for his pharmacy / so IMO they r taking the poverty stricken and making medicaid recipients lock in where Actavis seems to be dominating, thank God my son doesnt have to take any meds on a daily basis. however i do but i have part D Medicare for my meds. A lot of suffering going on, i get the Alvogen brand oxy 10/325 and they work but i do have to take 1 1/2, it's been less than 1 year ive been on oxy 10/325 being switched from Norco/hydrocodone 10/325 after 8 years so it's not a tolerance issue. then i run out early and have to go through hell @ 3-4 a month.

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BL I think you're right as far as they are not working because of the reducing of the Methadone, at least part of it... The doctor told him that it had to do with "points" as to why they reduced him.. I also think part of it is because he WAS on 4 Methadone and 6-10/325 percoset a day.. I went back in our records and looked.. Originally I thought it was 4 percosets.. Now he only gets 5-5/325 Norco a day and only 2 Methadone now.. I asked my doctor about this "points" thing and he looked at me, dumbfounded and said he had never heard of that... He is terminal and honestly, why the hell does it matter what he is on as low as his current dose is??? He wonders that too. If someone is dying, the rules shouldn't apply.. Rules, schmules.. As far as my friend goes, I now know that she is an addict and I think, but am not positive she has been red flagged.. That's why I think they don't monitor her or help her at the emergency room..Maybe they do monitor her because I cannot believe a word of what she says anymore.. I'm guessing that because I knew a couple of people who had been red flagged and they treated them the same way... I have known a lot of addicts since I have been on pain management, 20 plus years... Addicts have pill radar.. They come out of the woodwork.. You don't have to tell them, they just know that you take something somehow... With me, if you look at me it's fairly obvious. I won't say why here because people I know may read this... My friend gets 90 plus percoset 10/325 a month on a pain contract.. Every month someone magically steals her medications or has some reason (excuse as to why they're gone)...I've told her to get a safe, but I'm sure they're not being stolen.....Her mom told me that they are gone in a week or less and then she goes from friend to friend hoping someone will give in.. I have not and will not but she keeps trying..I had (but no longer) another friend that would do that to me every month too, giving me the sob story.. I love my friend very much, but I cannot in good conscience give/loan her any of mine. She tries hard. I have told her in no uncertain terms that by giving/loaning etc ANY of my pills puts my pain contract and good relationship with my doctor in jeopardy and I WILL NOT do it. End of story... She also goes to town looking and then shares with me how she bought this 30mg something from this person or that 20mg from that person. It even got to the point where she has stolen her dad's pain medications and had stolen her mom's bank card and stole like 600.00 from her account. I told her to prosecute, that way she could get her help. I also told her by not getting her help is enabling her addiction.. She didn't prosecute or get her help.... The husband is a violent alcoholic who beats them both up but she won't have him arrested either, another enabling of an addict/alcoholic. I guess for them, it's easier to live with the violence and heartache than to fix the problem.. It makes me very sad.. Their family is a complete mess.. Very sad, because there are good people in there.. At least I hope so...

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And as far as the dosage he WAS ON it adds up to 30mg plus 25mgs. Not even close to the 120mg

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