New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!? (Page 14) (Top voted first)

Hello all,

I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong.

Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc.

The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way.

I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread.

TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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Dustyrose, a patient isn't considered terminal until they are given a life expectancy. The diagnosis of a disease that will more than likely take their life in the future doesn't mean that the patient is considered terminal until a certain point. It's a shame that some drsdon't have enough respect for their patients to tell them the truth. Has he considered finding another dr ?

You said " I also think part of it is because he WAS on 4 Methadone and 6-10/325 percoset a day.." Depending on the mg of the Methadone, he may have been on more than 120 mg Morphine Equivalent Before they lowered it.

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I totally agree with you 100%. I received 120, 10/325 of Watson 853 and taking one pill I noticed ZERO pain relief. I mean NOTHING!!!! Walgreens said they only carry this brand and have never had any complaints. REALLY?? I am going back to Walgreens today and demand they take these back (now 110 pills), transfer my pres. to my local pharmacy where I have been going for 5 years with no complaints. I have a strong feeling that I am wasting my time. I can't function for 30 days with my back pain. I need a reliable pharmacy to fill my prescription.

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Go to Target and get your doctor to call them and tell them your doctor wants you to use the Qualitest , not the generic.

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Try CVS, they carry another brand that works amazing as well as cub foods. And I usually call them prior to make sure they did not change vendors, that is if you have those stores in your city! Good Luck!

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Lscott, if you were taking 2 7.5's at the same time that is more than 1 10 mg. Maybe you need to talk to your dr about something stronger.

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queeniek, If people are really interested, they will read in the Federal Registery the year before the amount of active ingredients that the DEA is giving to the manufacturers and comment then because that is the appropiate time and place to do so.

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I don't have any new info for you but I totally agree with your assessment. I used to take hydrocodone 10.325 and always insisted on the watson brand because they worked. That is until they took out the yellow dye and made the pills white. I had to have my Dr up my dose from 4 a day to the maximum of 6. That still didn't relieve my pain so I asked him for oxycodone (Percocet) 10.325. Those work but there is a brand that starts with an M that don't work as well as the others. I always get mine at Walgreens and they give me an oblong white pill. Maybe we should all call watson and demand they put the yellow color and the other ingredient back in that pill.

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These thing don't do anything at all. Tylenol works better and I'm not trying to be funny. I doubled my dose and didn't help with my pain at all. And I'm going through withdrawals on them. I don't think there is anything in them. It's a 100% bogus company or something.

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T may be for Tramadol. I have tried a script of them but became very nauseous, nervous, irritable, and barely, if at all, got any relief! Also on a test with white hydro. Tramadol showed up when I hadn't even taken them for a year! The white melt like chalk too! Yes I too think they are changed in order to wean the human race from them. I've read comments that each of you have mentioned and it's gotten so bad. So find a good Pharmacy that carry's the yellow. The white are nock offs for people that abuse them. Kinda like people that I've heard even selling food stamps! workin the gover

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michael, any pill that is made by a manufaturer that is Not the manufacurer that held the original patent is cosidered a Generic. They no longer manufacurer M357 because it contains Acetaminophen 500 mg along with Hydrocodone 5 mg. They now make it with Acetaminophen 325 mg and Hydrocodone 5 mg and it is M365.

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I do not take hydros anymore but did have experience with those when they first came on the market. I personally did have a prefence between hydros. I remember they use to have the blues, pinks, and yellows. All 3 of those were really good IMO, however I always liked the pinks and yellows the best. Now once the whites came out I was very dissatisfied. I completely agree they did something more than just take out the dye. Even in the 7.5 they offered the peach ones at one time and they were much better than the whites or any other color and then they took the peach off the shelf, too. I have taken Opana and OxyContin in the past also and experienced the similar effect when they reformulated them. I truly fill they did some thing to the hydros to make them less abusive when they reformulated or less strong, NO DOUBT! One good thing about my comment is I have never taken these meds any other way than oral and also i pretty much take as prescribed (unless it's a really bad pain day and I add an extra med which my docs approve that) not judging anyone's for doing it differently just saying if I can tell a huge difference in taking all these meds orally I'm sure taking them any other way has changed dramatically, also. However either way all of these meds have changed so much and as chronic pain sufferer myself it sucks because it is hard to get increases when you are already on pretty high levels and I personally don't want to get an increase but it had to happen because of it. First I went off of the hydros and changed to Oxycodone (or roxicodone) then I just recently switched back to the fentanyl patch because the best top ER brands have all changed their formulations and are less effective. When will they ever understand abuse is going to happen regardless of how they make meds or what they do to make it safer abuse WILL happen that's why opiate overdoses have been on the rise. So why keep making a product worse by trying to make it abuse proof or whatever the reason might be. It's just crazy. I know within a week of them reformulating Opana, a lady already had it figured out how to abuse them again and had a video up on YouTube. I never did see it but heard about it. So it's inevitable. All they are doing is making true chronic pain patients suffer more, When addicts and abusers will always find a way regardless. So I apologize for getting off topic but yes they are less effective and it's not in your mind, they are! Change to Oxycodone plus you don't have to worry about acetaminophen, course I'm sure they will call that in soon for a reformulated version, eventually. smh. Have a great day and hopefully a less painful day, as well!

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Ok, if going off the mechanism of release i know i had someone who always complained about the gg xanax. They are the same way if you crush the gg's up before taking orally you will feel them like the yellow or green or white brands, so maybe try crushing them before swallowing... I have a friend who won't take any tablets but the watson brand and says the others mess w her stomach.

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I have the same issue with the yellow Norco. They do not work for me. I found that the regular white vicodin 7.25/325 works better. It's crazy but very true. I would like a answer as well.

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Bl, its possible the m357 may be coming to an end even though my dad receives the m357 through the va which actually is 10/325 at least what his bottle says maybe only the VA holds that particular brand for as many as they buy and price no other pharmacy wants to pay that price do to competition wars but i do know back in the day (im 45 now) the only vicodin i remember being available was the 355, 356, and the 357 i would almost believe that is the true and not generic type of hydrocodone/not norco. norco simply is defined as non habit forming/that was or still is out there. I know when i compare the m357 to my script 853 by far 357 works way better but then again sometimes they are not all exact i read somewhere where every pill could have a + or - of 20 percent 1 pill may only hold 8mg and another 12mg those machines have to be pretty precise to be in exact mg every pill for the millions they make every day im sure im getting ready for major lower back surgery and i feel fortunate for being in pain management and having a hydrocodone script and ms script even if they are generic not to say i havent been abusing them a tad lately due to my pain level but dont want to ask my doctor for anything stronger due to already being hooked on opiates/for/years if there is a true 10/325 hydrocodone that isnt generic out there that started its patent i would like to know where being as its probably not being made anymore even before the m357 and that everybody these days that takes hydrocodone is taking a generic form of that pill i dont remember anything else besides m357 say 30 years ago all pills these days are being highly regulated to where nobody is getting all the milligrams for however many pills they may have or get not good for people that really need it to cope with work and everyday activities due to an injury. I maybe wrong about the word norco to everybody calls them that i have only heard the word norco means non habit forming if true i think the dea is trying to come up with a formula so people wont be hooked on em maybe. Bye for now

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I am a chronic pain patient myself and I ACTUALLY HATE IT! Been for 10 years plus myself. Only knowledge I can give is that people and pharmacists say that it's the FILLER that can screw with some people and I totally BELIEVE what you are saying cuz I've been thru sane thing and still am!!!

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Try Wal mart they the one by me had the yellows but that was a few years ago.

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Where do you get that information that a generic hydrocodone 10/325 or whatever varies in strength.Curious where that comes from.Thanks

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Dear Hokie,
I also suffer from chronic pain but I am terribly allergic to all painkillers--I was once hospitalized for anaphylactic shock-- except Panadol--which is not very effective either.I use natural therapies, Ayurvedic remedies, oil and electric massages, and take supplements such as Strontium, a bone builder, hyaluronic acid+MSM tablets, and yes a glass of milk with a spoon of turmeric powder and some pieces of chopped raw ginger and honey in it, every night, helps give slightly more restful sleep.
My biggest problem is an injured knee, for which I also apply a weekly poultice, which I order from an Indian Ayurvedic website. These herbal sites and remedies are worth exploring as they do not do any harm, or give allergies..

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ABellflower, fillers and binders can't be discounted because they can affect how a drug is metabolized.

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As I said earlier, I am also a chronic pain sufferer, but I try to use smaller doses of these [vicodin] type medicines which reduce a person to a zombie, and I try all the alternative therapies I mentioned earlier like Ayurvedic, and Traditional Chinese Medicine, like acupuncture and herbal teas.. The series called "THE INCURABLES" on ZLiving channel has some startling remarkable real stories of cures from pain, terminal diseases etc., through macrobiotic diets , and the Alternative Therapies mentioned above. It is worth trying them, as these remedies have NO SIDE EFFECTS, even if they do not cure you completely. They definitely improve your health.

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