New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!? (Page 10)
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Hello all,

I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong.

Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc.

The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way.

I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread.

TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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Yes, I have to agree with the information and experiences people have given on the thread, I work on cars for a living and take Hydrocodone for back pain relief and I usually get the generic Lortab which is a M367 white oblong pill, they are 10 mgs and one pill relieves my pain most of the night after work and recently I got the watson 853 10 mgs and the other night I had to take 3 and a half before I noticed any relief at all

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As most of us all know the trillionaires of the world otherwise known as the secret society who now not only own all the federal reserve banks in the world, now have purchased all of the pharmaceutical companies. They're intentions are not good therefore I don't think there's a solution. They also own the media so that we are not able to hear the truth, also responsible for spraying Durham, Mercury and many other cancer causing and heart attack causing ingredients from planes, the purpose of this being they are in canyon to eliminate 80% of the population. Really really sad. They have gone from one country to another threatening the leaders of these countries to pay back all debts which is impossible to be done so therefore they must join forces with the evil or simply be replaced.

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Yes this is the second time I've experienced in his, I'm so pissed off n extremely in pain the pharmacy said they cant do anything about it. No more of these for me, I'm trying to call the number to the Watson pharmacical on Watson website something needs to be done.

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I know this is late on reply.. I just received this message.. The white had gelatin and gluten fillers that have been removed. . They are also allowed a 2% variable in the hydrocodone. . White are basically a 7.5 and yellow can be as much as 12.. this was part of the reason for the reclassification that happened with narcotic pain meds.. I did not just pull this out of the air.. I asked a couple dr's off the record and I work in elderly retirement homes.. the only part that stays the same is the Tylenol percent. .

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shawn, if you take 3 10 mg extended release meds, you will receive a total of 30 mg. They are released slowly, but the total from each pill is the same. When I said that Morphine is strong, I wasn't just talking about the 100 mg, I was also talking about Morphine itself. Different people react differently to meds and what knocks one person out may or may not knock the next person out. But, you certainly don't want to be behind the wheel of a car when you realize that it is going to knock you out.

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Dude if you take a 10mg it's on going to release the 10mg.these pill are designed to just released the mgs.let's say you take 3 pills of 10mg it won't add to be 30 mgs it will still be just 10mg that's release extended relief that's how they designed them.

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I'm on the Butrans Patch too, been on everything nearly killed me and ruined my marriage. The butrans patch seems lesser of the evils for me personally. And your right, I'll tell my husband "man this patch sure don't seem to be working! We know when our pain is not being controlled!!!! It's all untrustworthy and this is the sad truth of the way of the Big Greedy Pharm Company's! I take the perk 10/325 too, if I didn't have those I'd be miserable, more than miserable, desperate, pain can take one's life if it becomes too much to take. I know, been at that point before. To address the perks, the white ones are weaker the oblong ones here. The round yellow ones are the real ones. Their is one Pharm way out of my that has the yellows. However, my next pain clinic app I'm asking for 20mg oxycodon no actemetaphine!

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jaydee , have you talked to your dr about Percocet 7.5/325 ? It is about the same strength as hydrocodone 10/325 acetaminophen. It is very dangerous to take more than 3,000 mg Tylenol (Acetminophen) in a 24 hour period. You won't feel sick right away because it takes time for the tylenol build up in your system and effect your organs, and by then it is too late.

It is common for there to be a shortage of Schedule II drugs arounf the first of the year. You need to call the pharmacys agaon and see if they have gotten any orders in ? Also call independent stores.

100 mg Morphine is strong. One of the most common side effects of Morphine is it making you sleepy, putting you to sleep and it making you very tired. The higher the mg the worse these side effects are. It is bet to start someone out on a lower dose of Morphine to see what side effects they have and how severe they are. It is also best to take your first few doses of Morphine when you don't have anything that you have to do. Do Not Drive until you have taken a few doses of Morphine, no matter the mg, to see how it affects you.

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It's nice to know that i'm not the only one who feels that way. I'm also a 10 year user of 10/325 and find a big difference between this pharmacy chain and the other one.
I mentioned this to my doctor and
gave me Morphin Sulfate twice a day
and I use less Norco. He started me on 60 mg of me but since my chronic pain is getting worse he has upped to 100 mg. And I feel great. I get through the day and just fill in with 4 Norco's.
Ask your dr. For MS 100"s.
Good luck!

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I just suffer, been on 10/325s since 2004 but pharmacists don't carry anymore in my area, I search and search and no one has them. Since the crackdown and reclassification it seems to be pointless. Just taking about 50 tylenols a day, dying of liver failure is better than fighting with these i***** pharmacists over this BS...

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Dawn, you will have to get another prescription if you want another generic and it is doubtful that your dr will give you another prescription this soon. The pharmacy can't replace meds once you've left the pharmacy counter.

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I just got my Watson 10-325 and have had to take 3 , I only take 1 of the yellow ones and I am good to go, I called walgreens and they told me they were the same just take 2, I don't like how they make me fell at all,going back to CVS for my yellow ones.

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This problem is occurring with other controlled drugs as well. Since manufacturers can legally put any where from 80% to 120% of the effective ingredient into into the Drug, then perhaps they are now making sure to put Only 80% of the Hydrocodone now, into the Vicodone pills. I was stopped taking generic Adderal for a couple of years. Recently, it was necessary to start it again. After 2 months, I had my Life back again! Month # 3 the Pharmacy gave me a different Brand (TEVA/Barr). I took one and later thought maybe I missed my mouth!? Took another...same thing...! For a solid month I suffered with all my symptoms of ADD, severe Depression, etc returning. I felt that the GREED of BIG PHARMA was playing with MY Life and I have been angry every since. Thanks to MedsChat, I was able to get an idea of Which Manufacturers to Avoid, & which ones & which Brand and Color of Pill might work Best. I even found out which Pharmacy carried them!? I went there and found the right Brand for me. I continue, as well as others, to occasionally warn people that some Manufacturers seem to have reduced the active ingredients. They should know that Patients are going to Notice right away. I'm a Chronic Pain Patient as well. I'm under medicated, with 3 Percocet daily be an MD. I'm afraid to go to a Pain Clinic nowadays because of all the Crap that U must go thru. I only need the 5mg to be raised to 10mg due to diagnosis of Severe Osteoporosis of Spine caused by Prednisone taken for autoimmune Disorder. Can't reduce Prednisone due to increased pain when I cut back. Prednisone makes bones worse. Vicious cycle. Also.. Fybromylagia, Arthritis, and Migraines. The CDC does not care. They allowed Chronic pain Sufferers only 3 weeks to write in their Story. I missed deadline. Only less than 2, 000 wrote in. So,they set guidelines for doctors to try NOT to prescribe pain pills to those patients with Chronic Pain!! They are only guidelines they are not the law but you know how doctors are. This will only make it harder for us to get our medications that we need to have quality of life. Did any of you know about the time Period To write in YOUR "Pain Story". They didn't advertise it well, nor give us much time. There are millions of chronic pain patients and only less than 2000 had a chance to write in. I think that's the way they wanted it. So what y'all need to do about your pills is to go to different manufactures until you find one that still works. Also we need to speak up to the CDC. You can write them, you can call them and tell them your story. however you can. Or We are going to lose the ability to even get anything at all for our pain. Thanks everyone and God Bless...

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lil T,
That is interesting: You have also noticed the difference, particularly the hardness of the pills.
What I can tell you, though, is that this "hard" quality you mentioned is not limited to street pills. In the last few months I continue to get what I refer to as "mixed batches" of subutex generic pills (CVS pharm). Some of the pills are so hard that they cannot be broken with the fingers -- well, yes, it is possible, but very difficult to do. Other pills in the same batch break in half quite easily, as a normal pill should.

These hard pills have something else in them besides the fillers that were used in the past. They also have a strong, bitter taste - similar to aspirin - which is markedly different from the pills I used to get. Since some of the pills are so hard, it takes longer for them to dissolve under the tongue (they are sublingual medication).

I've already called the manufacturer and complained. I also reported the inconsistency in quality to the pharmacist manager at CVS. I realize this is all for naught. Forget the DEA. The government is not our friend; neither is CVS.

I'm thinking long and hard re: Hoper's advice below. Maybe the best course of action really would be to sign a group petition and present it to the manufacturer. Nothing beats good, solid numbers insofar as effecting change.

Publicity (negative) is another strategy that often produces action on the part of the offender (in this case, the pharm. companies and the government, IMO).

Who wants to take it to their local newspapers, for starters? Or better yet, a major news publisher? I should think we'd first have to have good, solid scientific evidence (laboratory analyses on the pills in question) rather than anecdotal reports.

I know what you're all thinking: That the publicity could turn on us, the very people who are being victimized by drug companies and others.
The minute "pain medication" or "buprenorphine" is mentioned many of us feel defensive or ashamed. We feel "exposed," so to speak, and embarrassed by our dependency on these drugs.

Well, welcome to the world of exploitation by the pharmaceutical industry and others who stand to profit from their greed. They have silenced us through their basic understanding of human nature. They know that people need their products, even if said products have been corrupted and reduced to a fraction of their potency. They know people would rather suffer in silence and spend money they don't have in order to acquire the pills they need.

It seems that not only the drugs are controlled; so are we.

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Hi.. Born with a rare bone disease, ostegenesis imperfecta...brittle bone disease, I have spent several yrs. in my childhood on demoral, etc...which I never liked, yet had bad symptoms when time to get off it...But when I found Vicodin after knee surgery at age 33 Before the pain was gone, the addiction ballooned...sometimes taking 14-20 daily..Now, I am on Methadone, which u really have to think carefully about getting on that...Anyway, regarding the change in pills, it can depend on if they come from the pharm or the street..I started seeing some 10 mg. lorcet in white that did nothing..Checking websites, I found that more of the pills on the street are pressed counterfeit pills. The harder they are at the pharm, the more likely you are to get fake pills, which are ineffective. This is also common in the Xanax on the street...white bars bought on street can b melatonin, but I am noticing ineffectiveness in the yellow Xanax as well..are they also changing the pharmcuetical Xanax bars?

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As I said earlier, I am also a chronic pain sufferer, but I try to use smaller doses of these [vicodin] type medicines which reduce a person to a zombie, and I try all the alternative therapies I mentioned earlier like Ayurvedic, and Traditional Chinese Medicine, like acupuncture and herbal teas.. The series called "THE INCURABLES" on ZLiving channel has some startling remarkable real stories of cures from pain, terminal diseases etc., through macrobiotic diets , and the Alternative Therapies mentioned above. It is worth trying them, as these remedies have NO SIDE EFFECTS, even if they do not cure you completely. They definitely improve your health.

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Yes I have the same problem. I've been taking hydro 10 325 for long time the yellow ones. Then one day I came home from the pharmacy and they were white. I asked the pharmacist why are they white and he says manufacturer has changed all their yellow pills two white ones. Then. They don't work quite the same way as the yellow ones do. And besides that if I take more my normal dosage is for the day I notice I get a lot of headaches. I hope this answers your question because you are not alone.

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I'm not dismissing the effects of fillers and binders on the medication. I'm alleging there are other, newer and different types of "fillers" in these drugs that were not in the drugs before.

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Omg it's freaking scary for those of us who have real pain. Can't trust pharmaceutical companies anyway. I'm on the Butrans Patch on/off for many years. I'm telling you not all this patches work. Or even last 5 days. I'm sorry I'm not addressing the hydro's which is fishy for sure. I would call the manufacturer, or change pharmacies. I dunno, I'm like what are we all going for???

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ABellflower, fillers and binders can't be discounted because they can affect how a drug is metabolized.

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