Ketamine For Depression? (Page 8)

It was recommended by the members of a separate thread that one be started that directly relates to ketamine and it's use to treat depression.

If anyone besides myself would like to discuss it's use as a treatment for depression, feel free to post your questions, answers and experiences here.

This thread is an offshoot of a related one that discussed a treatment of Scopolamine for depression.

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John... I am responding to a post on June, 2012 as you describe your nasal polyps, the nasal K, loss of smell related to depression...OMG...it was like turning a light on for me. I have never heard about the loss of smell and depression, but I suffer from severe sinus problems, had polyps, was just in the hospital with acute sinusitus that i didn't even know I had and my primary was furious with me. Even though she couldn't see me when I called her office with symptoms of a flu like fever, etc...lol. But I have also lost my sense of smell and occasionally I do get a whiff of things....like my carpet...which is not pleasant...lol.. Anyway, please stay in touch with me if you are still on here. This has really interested me and is another possible missing link in a long and disgusting puzzle...I WILL FIGURE THIS OUT...I WILL!

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N2V...responding to your post sometime in July 2012...Dr. Fruitman and the intramuscular K...I am about to travel from Florida to NYC to see Dr. Brooks for K infusions....cost of infusion is $460 with a regime of 4 infusions over a 5-6 day period. I was impressed with Brooks knowledge of K, depression, his explanation of the glutamate connection to untreatable depression (THAT PDOCS NEVER DISCUSS....) and his concern for my situation. I talked to him over the phone tonight and felt better that there are doctors out there who are working with alternatives to Big Pharma antidepressants that simply dont work on me....Is $460 per infusion a reasonable price...I also have to fly up and back and pay for lodging. I live in a LAME state when it comes to anything new and progressive...your input on the NYC area or anywhere on the East Coast would be helpful....thanks

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Paula...responding to a post by you in Oct. 2012. Oh, I could not agree more with everything you said. and I think the sooner we organize to expose the k connection to severe depression and pressure those in power to do something about it, the better. I am just now getting into the K cycle....having to fly to NYC to get help with infusion. Like the doc so far...not Fruitman, but Brooks. Have you heard of him? I am desperate...I sit and stare, have all the symptoms of deep depression and no drug has helped. Also have ptsd, anxiety....all the drugs my pdoc wants to give me are ssri's - none of which target glutamate. NOW is the first that I have heard that glutamate, processed in area 25 of the brain could be the REAL culprit...I am. pardon me. pissed beyond belief.....I will pay about three thousand for 4 infusions, air fare and accomodations for 5-6 days in midtown....any help, tips, insight on this trip for me will be helpful. I need to find accomodations near times square...docs office is on East 50th st?

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Gleeful, can you please give me details of Dr. Brooks for K infusions in NY, I am would like to contact him.

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I don't have a lot of time to get into this topic right now, will post more later, but if you go back to my postings from last summer, there is a lot of stuff re my trial experience of Ketamine Infusions at Alexian Bros Hospital in Hoffman Estates, IL. I do believe there are still trials going on across the country, check 'mydepressionstudy.com' on the web. They PAY YOU $75 per visit! More later...

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http://ketamine4depression.com/about-us/

Tell me what you think.

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Probably will cost an arm and a leg. During the trial, the infusions were conducted by RN's, no MD supervision whatsoever. I had 2 infusions through a private pdoc setting, conducted by RN anesthetist while also receiving that TMS treatment, where they do the magnetic stimulation to the cranium at the same time (don't know if you've heard heard of that one).

Anyway, 1k per visit, not worth it, did nothing. Had 2 treatments in one week, the doc struck me as a jerk, didn't speak to me before or after either treatment.

Here is what I would do if in NYC. There is a guy, Dr. Fruitman, Nurses administer IM injections of Ketamine, 15 minutes apart, for safety reasons. I would look into his treatment plan, guarantee you Fruitman is WAY more affordable and just as safe.

My experience with the study was that it took me until the 3rd infusion in a week's time for the amazing transformation in my thought process to change, during the study it was gradually tapered down to one time every other week.

So what the eventual outcome in terms of effectiveness for a maintenance plan was that the effects wore after a week. But if I had my druthers, what I would recommend for my PERSONAL treatment would be 2 IM injections based on .5mg/kg of bodyweight, per week. But probably could get away with one per week. Mind you I have not had Ketamine INJECTIONS yet, but I see no reason why that would not be just as effective.

Call Fruitman and check him out first, and remember that it took me until #3 to get an AMAZING response, but then after that, 1x per week was good for maintenance, so don't be discouraged if you don't 'get it' the first or second time.

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gleeful-

yes, not being able to smell has a direct link to depression. do some googling on 'anosmia and depression' and you will find plenty of info.

i was supposed to have my 3rd polyp surgery this past thursday, but i rescheduled. just too beat-up right now. plus, the darn things come back in a year or so. argh. still, i plan on having surgery next month.

as far as ketamine goes i did not respond. as you read, i tried both nasal administration and infusion. i was very disappointed. i do not want to discourage you. i say go for it.

i am curious about the im shot deal. i do have a doctor friend and am curious if he would do it for me. just a few times to see if a multiple approach would make a difference.

good luck and please keep us posted. i have read quite a bit about the 'next gen' of antidepressants which will be hitting the receptors that ketamine does. this is a few years away from reality unfortunately. still, something to keep in mind.

take good care and keep fighting.

john

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Paula-

I live in Chicago too, have you had any success finding doctors that will administer ketamine for depression?

You mentioned Dr Steven Best, there are a couple of pain doctors that use them for neurological problems but I'm not sure if they will use it for depression and the receptionists weren't helpful.

Thanks

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Paula, I'd be interested in hearing more about your experience in the way that it's changed the way you think. Through the years, my cognitive growth/ability have really take a beating from the depression. My social skills are dismal, I think in circles, short term memory shot, indecisive, can't envision, and I have a hard time grasping and relating concepts and ideas. I really thought I had a brain tumor but a brain MRI assuaged those fears. So it must be the depression.

I took a look at the depression study link that you posted. I'm in Northern California. All of the research locations in CA are, unfortunatley for me, located in Southern California.

I was one of the few who tried the intranasal ketamine spray. It was a big waste of time of money. I'm looking to seeing a psych since I finally found a job that gave me some decent health insurance, but Kaiser is triaging me through a therapist before seeing a psych. I'm going to try more meds and possibly revisit the Glutamate class of ADs once more options are available.

And also, I totally agree with you on that the Drs using the infusions to make a quick buck.

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Thank you John for your reply..funny...I was just weighing the pros and cons of going to NYC for a round of infusions. Wondering if they would work for me certainly was a consideration because of the travel and the costs. I have and am trying to get into clinical studies...all of which seem to be in the North as well - which has been a disqualifer for me even if I can stay there for a required period of time....I am at my "normal" stage right now...had a deep depressive episode around christmas and through first weeks of Jan....then had a couple of great days, week...now am back to kinda of depressed...so, I go from depressed to normal and back. Never happy, never gleeful...many times looking for reasons to keep on truckin...lol. Mania seems like a luxury. Any more input, please let me know, Johh. I connected with you because of your sinus issues cause I have that problem as well. Polyps...dad had them too, but they always grew back if he had them removed. thats why I never did. I will look up anosmia...good luck to you and hope you feel well enough for surgery soon....Gleefully Yours....;)

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thanks..have heard of Fruitman and I have actually talked to Dr. Brooks in NYC...he recommends 4 infusions over 5 days at $460 each....unfortunately I have to return to Florida and have no idea yet if I can get the IM for maintenance in the event that the infusions do work....I am researching as fast as I can. Have you ever talked to Dr. Brooks on 51st St north of Times Square? Wonder how these two are different...what did fruitman charge for the infusion?

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Do you know of anyone that has tried the IM injections of ketamine? Are there any doctors or anesthesia RNs
In the Los Angeles area? I cannot afford the infusions.
Any advice would be very appreciated!

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Really, I spent years looking for a fix- try these three things and you should notice a big difference
1. take 10,000 iu vitamin d3 every day
2. eat one pound salmon a week
3. eat a cup of blueberries a day

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what did you find in so.ca.?

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Been to Best, he is a ripoff unless you have a lot of money, went there for 2 infusions, cost about 2 grand (1k apiece) , not something I could afford to maintain so I stopped. It took me 3 infusions before I felt 'the weight' gone, it was like all of a sudden my thought process did a complete 180, instead of negative thought process, I was completely positive, optimistic for the future, my 'words' came back, my intellect, sexual response, sense of humor and light-hearted attitude was back, perhaps even BETTER than before! Which stands to reason, because the Ketamine is proven to promote the development of neural connections, I saw a picture of , I think it was a neuron, it was just like a bare stick. And then, after being exposed to Ketamine for a certain amt of time , it looked like a Christmas tree, it grew new branches on the bare stick. I felt it. Amazing. Anyway, there is a doc named Joe Fanelli, friend of mine referred me, said he thinks 'outside the box.' Fanelli used to be in Elmhurst, but now he is in East Chicago, IN. I saw him a couple weeks ago, he went to this hospital there,mod you know how ugly East Chicago is? And smelly? Anyhoo, waited hour and a half to see him so by that time I had to leave pretty quick, but we spoke for a few minutes. He is in that godawful hood because this hospital, St Catherine, St Elizabeth, I forget. But he has carte blanche to open a clinic there, using so-called experimental drugs like Ketamine infusions to help people like us. That's why he left beautiful Elmhurst for Godforsaken East Chicago- to become a trail-blazing pdoc to treat depression with new therapies. Really nice guy, problem is I knew WAY more about what other docs are doing, clinical study protocols, etc. thinkink of asking him for a job, but no frikken way do I want to move THERE! Give him a call and get an appt., he spends a lot of time w/each pt, that's why I waited so long. Gonna go see him again, takes about a month for appt. I will give permission for you to privately email me, so I can tell you more if you wish...

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I have all of the cognitive deficits you have mentioned. I don't look sick when I doll up and can speak fairly well, so I'm a good 'show pony'. But I cannot keep the job because information doesn't 'stick'. I can't learn, can't retain. It makes me too sad to speak any more of it, my life has been ruined, just got done explaining to my ex about getting a job, a-hole was with me when I had my last job, he saw how I worked my ASS off to keep up, but I got fired anyway, and he is telling me 'get a job' treating me like I am a loser and pissed.WTF? Just sucks...

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@ Robert , @888- I have posted replies. @ Emma- your regimen of vitamin-salmon-blueberries sounds EXTREMELY simplistic. How did you arrive at this particular solution for TRD cure? How many different psych meds have you tried over the years? Thanks.

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Using ketamine for depression IM Intramuscular has the same result of using it by IV Intravenous?

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I am not sure of the answer, as I only have experienced remission from the IV infusions. But it stands to reason if it is getting into the bloodstream directly, then why wouldn't it work just as well? But I cannot say for a fact that it does, I am currently doing research on this, when and if I get a definitive answer, I will post. Some were asking about Pain Docs doing infusions for depression as well. I went to one doc in Chicago area, I do have pain, but she said I didn't have the particular syndrome that require infusions and foolishly I didn't ask about use for depression. She was rather intimidating, I have a feeling she wouldn't be game.

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