Help! Single Disabled Mom Wrongfully Kicked Out Of Pain Management (Page 3)

Ok, this will be lengthy to include all the necessary details but can someone help please? My being able to raise my daughter depends on my necessary medicine. I have no clue where else to turn. I have DDD with 4 herniated as of 2014 MRI, adv & degenerative osteoarthritis of the spine, tarlov cysts, neuropathy and nerve compression so badly that my left leg will give out with little warning. My father and I went to our PM last week, only a few days after unexpectedly burying my oldest sister. I've been a very trustworthy patient of his for four years and my Dad just about one year. Doc puts us both in same room which he's never done before. Doc starts talking to my Dad who is clearly morose & then says to my Dad, I don't like your attitude, which again just answers to his questions in a monotone voice. I explained to dr we just buried my sister, my dad's daughter so he's not doing well. Honest to God, that pos says "So, we all go through stuff". My Dad & I exchanged looks as if to say did he really just say that? Then doc asks how the super-charger script that begins with an N is working & Dad said yes a bit. Then the Dr flat out lies and says yeah I've had patients on that for 6 months and they're down to 1 opiate a day. That's a lie. He only began prescribing them two months ago. My Dad says Doc Ido, I hope but don't see how that's possible. Doc says I'm not going to argue to which my Dad replies I'm having a conversation, not an argument. And he was...if my Dad was wrong I'd have called him on it. So we head out and his daughter the receptionist asks to reschedule, my Dad says he's not coming back and I said I was unsure. Called today to make an appt and I was told I'm no longer a patient. I asked why and she said you released yourself. I said no I didn't, my father did. This is a family run practice so no one to complain to. Oh and they also declined to send my records & said have your new Dr. request them.

My question is I know I can't do anything just because he was a jerk to my Dad, but can I report him for lying about releasing myself thereby avoiding having to prescribe me one last time and for giving me no notice to go find a new Dr before I need my meds refilled? This last appt he was going to force me to continue inj's. suddenly when I haven't had one in a year because they don't work for more than a week on me. Dr got all weirded out a few months ago when his anesthesiologist was busted for supposedly not keeping correct docs & was fined $455k. My Dad thinks it was a set-up from the start...despite being excellent patients who never abused anything, never had dirty U/A, very rarely rescheduled appts and not once missed an appt, proof we're both permanently disabled from SS Disability... he wanted to dump us. Only thing we can figure is doc is or was def up to something sketchy & he knows my Dad is a retired cop and he doesn't want that around. So now my poor father and I are searching for new Dr at worst time. Does anyone know a good PM anywhere in the Chicagoland area who isn't afraid to prescribe, though I'm pretty far S/W of the city in Plainfield? I've tried everything in the world prior to getting on opiates and it is the only thing that has made my pain significantly retreat. I will take a new fancy OTC aspirin if it's strong enough, I just need to function and be in less pain. Custody of my 6 year old daughter depends on this...my life depends on this. How do they not see what this opiate crackdown is doing to legitimate chronic pain sufferers. Anyway, ty for those few who took time to read my novel. If you refer a good PM I would never use your name. Thank you all very much.

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Re: Patrice (# 36)

I still suffer with pain daily as I have RSD or CRPS from back surgery. The nerve damage is on my right side and causes a limp. Like I said before the Advil helps me but I still have alot of pain and as you said a good day is when I can do some light housework or in my case drive the car. I too am very anti-social now but that also is getting better. I really don't have any answers that will comfort but the government is really running how things are going and physicians are running scared but patients are really going to be suffering til it's all figured out. I pray, meditate, and keep searching for ways to relieve pain as the doctors don't seem to be doing. I have used CBD oils (legit CBD oil with NO THC), lidocaine creme's and these help as well. Stay strong, keep searching and pray and hopefully things will improve for those of us who have real pain needs and not addictions. I truly believe that there is confusion of patients who will never improve and that pain meds give quality of life as oppose to patients who are only looking for a high. Let's stay positive. Good Luck!!

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BL (# 39) --

I am not surprised at all at the number of people who actually believe that they can consume marijuana AND be prescribed pain medications at the same time. I have resided in a State where recreational marijuana was voted in (this issue is still working its way through the Courts because of the Supremacy Clause in the United States Constitution) and many people that I talked to about this said that meant that no employer could prohibit marijuana consumption now that the law was voted in. One employer had a company wide meeting and told his employees in no uncertain terms that if they showed positive for ANY amounts of THC in their urine/blood they would be dismissed immediately. (Btw, this company has a drug program where you can get treatment as long as you self report BEFORE they do their drug panels. If you are caught after the fact you are gone.) He had each department head meet with their employees and he had a form drawn up stating the company policy on drugs and each employee was REQUIRED to sign it (if you wanted to stay employed there).

Why am I posting so much about marijuana use and the misconceptions about it? Because there are many that think that it is okay to consume marijuana AND get pain medications prescribed. I have only read one post where the poster said that his pain Doctor "tolerated" marijuana use at his PM clinic. If you do not know your particular States law then research it. As far as the prescription of strong narcotic drugs goes I understand that a "step" therapy is used by most Doctors. I am unaware of any PM centers that will just load you up with the heavy narcotics that has not employed a step therapy OR one had better have a deep record of their injuries or conditions to support the Doctor's writing of the prescriptions he/she writes. We are living in a political climate where the prescription of ANY narcotic pain medications is under extreme assault. A Doctor will kick you to the curb for any reason they see fit. They are just tired of all of the grief they are being put through.It is so distressing to not be able to have a professional, unemotional conversation with your Doctor about your pain and the treatment of this condition(s). If there are any signs whatsoever that you may be a liability then you are often gone.

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Pain clinics make their own laws it seems. They know they can so they do. But if you haven’t failed any drug panels it will not take long to get a new doctor.

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Now lets talk about reality: 1) The changes in opioid prescribing are primarily political, not medical; 2) the risk of dying from accidental overdose increases dramatically in opioid doses over 100mg morphine equivalent or when benzodiazepines, muscle relaxants, or alcohol are added to the regimen; 3) we live in a relatively socialistic nanny state that wants to protect you from yourself; 4) changes in prescribing are not your doctors fault or that of "Big Pharma;" marijuana was made illegal by the Feds almost 100 years ago for purely political reasons and it will only become legal again for political reasons; 5) 100mg Morphine Equivalent has become the standard of care as has not mixing the above three classes of meds; 6) compassion in a doctor is not determined by whether or not he is willing to prescribe medications that do not follow the new standard of care and thereby jeapordize his license; 7) your doctor has the right to discontinue your care for almost any reason and you have the right to get a new doctor for any reason; 8) if your med regimen does not follow the new guidelines, you best prepare yourself for a new day - it's comin. Sorry.

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Re: TIM (# 44)

Tim, while a lot of what you said is true, especially the political, the doctors however are under certain regulatory guidelines to insure the health and well being of all their patients. Meaning, i.e., if they have a patient who has been pain managed and let's just say on Morphine 60 mg twice a day and a muscle relaxer than that Dr. is obligated to his patient to withdraw or decrease his meds according to his health history (usually 10-15% per month) to insure that the patient does not suffer any ill percussions such as heart attack, stroke the etc REGARDLESS of what the government agencies state. That is not happening across America these doctors are running scared and in fear of losing their license that is their only concern. Last time I checked these government agencies did not go to medical school and take the Hippocratic Oath. The physicians need to decrease meds at a tolerable dosage per month, document, document document and the government has no choice but to go along. If they have fear of their medical license then take to social media and TV telling of violations of medical practices and the government will have mud in the eye so to speak.

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Re: TIM (# 44)

(1) I have been saying this for at least 2 years. (2) I do know that mixing various forms of intoxicants increase dramatically the chances of od death. (3) Absolutely (4) Changes in prescribing opioids has changed due to the political climate. Agree, NOT the Doctors fault or "big pharma's" fault. YES, marijuana was made unlawful by legislation and it will take legislation on the Federal level to make it legal. NOT some States "voting" on it. Until and unless the Supremacy Clause is overturned then NO STATE can "vote" something in that is against Federal law. (5) No comment, as I do not know what the "standard" is. (6) Agree completely. (7) Again, agree completely. (8) I have posted this same thing on many occasions. Get ready or be in for a dose of reality. People need to be armed with FACTS. NOT some pablum thoughts or posts that mislead others into believing they are fine when they are not going to be.

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Re: pamelaQ (# 45)

What you post is pie in the sky. One would THINK that a Doctor is under an obligation to insure the health and welfare of the Doctor's patients but WHOSE definition of "insuring the health and well being of all of their patients" is this Doctor under, your definition, his definition, or the regulatory agency that is charged with overseeing what Doctor's do? Many Doctor's have been sued by these so called "activist" organizations and it is costing them thousands to defend these frivolous legal suits. The "activists" KNOW that it is easier to get the Doctors to capitulate then it would be to win. Many Doctors have just said "forget it" and they will only prescribe the minimum medically necessary (by THEIR definition. NOT yours.) to provide pain relief. As was pointed out the Doctors may make the decision about how and in what amount to treat a patient. If you don't like their decision you may go to another Doctor or to the ER. These Doctors are "running scared" and they are concerned about losing their license. After all, it is their livelihood. They could care less whether any patient likes it or agrees with them. So, the Doctors "need" to decrease meds at a tolerable dosage per month? TOLERABLE by whose definition? Yours or theirs? Thinking any Doctor that is in fear of losing their medical license will take to social media to mount a campaign is just plain pie in the sky. It is much easier to drop the patient or refer them to the ER. AGAIN, reality is a b**** sometimes.

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Re: w john (# 47)

John, I hear what you are saying and I'm not putting all the responsibility on the doctors! Patients are culpable as well, that being said, doctors cannot decrease drugs at such a rapid pace that patient's start having heart attacks, strokes, coma, the ect and I'm positive the doctors and the White House does not want to take responsibility either. Not ALL physician's but many are running so scared they are not bothering with proper protocol in pain med reduction, actually not just pain meds, Neurontin, Lyrica are also on the list to just name a few. Patient's can't abuse the system any longer and for those patient's who haven't you are going to have to talk with your physician, establish a reasonable reduction based on your medical history and age. If everyone doesn't work together there will be a lot of dead bodies and not from overdose. Read side effects of some of these meds without slow reduction before you jump my butt and tell me I'm the one crazy. I pray that all will keep a level head, work together and all ends well.

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Re: pamelaQ (# 48)

1 possibly right here! My Dr's is lowering me at such a rapid pace my bp is av. 150/120&bpm 126 at a resting state. He claims this is normal but I KNOW it's not. Plenty of Dr's are doing the same so yes there are gonna be allot off bodies piling up. I made sure my family is ready to fight if I don't survive this! Sadly even if someone was willing to fix me right now I wouldn't be physically capable of handling it. Thanks to every dumbass that aided in this "epidemic". Most of he Dr's out there are only concerned with themselves&have forgotten the oath they took. It really is sad&its gonna get very messy very soon!

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Re: pamelaQ (# 48)

It is YOU that is being dogmatic about this issue. Saying what a Doctor can and cannot do. There is a huge difference between the legality of this issue and the MORALITY of this issue. YOU say "Doctors CANNOT decrease drugs at such a rapid rate...." I'm sorry. They can and they do. As I posted earlier if you disagree you have the freedom to go to another Doctor or go to the ER. BTW, there is a huge difference between "crazy" and "mistaken". SHOW ME where I said you are "crazy". You do NOT, however, have a good grip on the law. Your posts are so dogmatic and the real world is not like that. Granted, some Doctors do not seem to be on the high side of the morality issue here but to say that "Doctor's CANNOT decrease drugs at such a rapid rate...." is just plain wrong. They CAN and they DO. It would mostly come down to who has the most believable position and right now, as far as MOST people go, ALL users of opioids are criminals. Thus the so called "opioid crisis". I know full well what the labels say about titrating down but AGAIN it is the Doctor's position on what is the proper rate to titrate down. YOUR OPINION does not mean anything to them. You can try to reason with them. You can try and beg but most of the time it will get you nowhere.Try arguing with a Doctor and see what you get as far as any pain med prescriptions go. If you were not so dogmatic in your position and statements you would not have the harsh reality of the FACTS posted back to you. AGAIN, your thoughts and the reality of the FACTS are two different positions. You post about the way you think it should be. I post about the harsh reality whether I agree with them or not.

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Re: Silverlining (# 49)

I understand completely how you feel. Many of the Doctor's do not give a rat's ass about how their patient feels or whether they agree with them. They will do what they want to do. Period. Unfortunately, the politics of this issue is siding with the Doctor's. I can remember when it was possible to have a rational, unimpassioned conversation with your Doctor and they would actually listen to you whether it changed their minds or not. They would not put you into a "group" if you just had a discussion with them. Not today. Many Doctors think that if you even try to discuss their position that must mean you are a "chaser" or some other negative term or name. The reality of where we are and where we think we should be is two different things and the diversity of opinions here is disturbing to say the least. Whatever happened to rational conversation, compassion, and reasonableness?

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Re: w john (# 50)

John, I'm truly sorry that I have upset you with my statements, that being said, this statement of fact is not going to make you feel better either: here goes; You are the one being dogmatic if you think that all patient's on opioids are criminals. I hope for your sake and I'm sincere in that , that nothing happens to you that you yourself will have to be placed on long term meds. It's been my experience that those people who mouth and judge others without being pragmatic of both concerns will get a bite in the butt. Let's call a truce? You can keep your opinions and I'll keep mine. P.S. I know more of the laws and regulations regarding doctors than you think, doesn't change the fact that not all physicians are abiding by them, that the reality. Have a Nice Day!

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Re: pamelaQ (# 52)

First, you really need a lesson in reading comprehension. AT NO TIME did I ever say that "all opioid users are criminals". Where did you get this nonsense? I NEVER said that. What I did say was that, in this political climate, MOST people, both professional and non professional, are rolling every consumer of pain meds into the same category as the criminal element. Street addicts, the ones that steal pills from relatives and businesses, and other criminal type elements are causing the Doctors and PM centers to look at everyone with the same jaundiced eye. This has caused pain med manufacturers to change their formulas or worse quit making pain meds altogether. I have been on long term pain med regimen for over 10 years. Where you get that I stated the misinformation that YOU think I posted or that I am not speaking from experience is absolutely amazing to me.

OPINIONS are fine as long as they are founded in fact and not just someone's OPINION. It will behoove you to get founded in FACT and not just make up things as you go along. The fact that you have misstated my position and statements on more than one occasion tells me that you would rather post statements based on emotions. Lastly, it is the Doctor's decision that will count. NOT an OPINION based on emotions. It does not matter what your opinion is. That I am being dogmatic on. Keep in mind that many of these online conversations are based on a person's UNDERSTANDING of laws of their State. Laws and rules can and are different based on the State and sometimes even the locality where the laws are in place. PLEASE READ what is posted and NOT what you think is posted. I NEVER said the things that you posted I said and there is not 1 iota of evidence to say that I did. I am not looking for an argument but I will not be wildly misquoted and not respond. That would be tantamount to an admission of guilt.

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Re: w john (# 53)

I am not speaking from an emotional argument, I read. Exactly who do you think is putting the muscle on physicians? Try CMS as in Medicare (CMS always sets the precedence for all insurance/agencies) and the CDC. As to laws regarding physician's you misquote what I stated. Doctors can not leave a patient "knowingly" in a critical state of health that could cause death, however, many physicians feel that they are having to make a decision of their own "survival" of livelihood and unfortunately for PM patients we are losing. It doesn't matter that the so called "opioid crisis" has been diminishing since 2012-2014. The rise of Fentanyl and illicit drug deaths has superseded any and all positive changes for long term PM patients. I'll bet you didn't know how "Big Pharma" even got started? Here's the info, why don't you go look it up? I think you'll be shocked. Try Rockefeller, Carnegie and Flexner. Go to: "How rockefeller founded modern medicine and killed natural cures". I don't just talk to hear myself speak. Have a nice evening.

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Re: pamelaQ (# 54)

You ARE making an emotional argument. I know who is putting the muscle on physicians. It is the politicians, the DEA, and popular opinion. Just two days ago there was a story about a guy who all of his friends say was abusing cocaine. He also took other illicit drugs as a mixture but it was the cocaine that killed him. The headline read "Promising College Student caught up in the "opioid crisis." He abused cocaine. His friends told him that his cocaine use was out of control but still his death was blamed on the "opioid crisis". You say "Doctors cannot leave a patient "knowingly" in a critical state. You have NEVER previously stated or used the word "knowingly". You have only posted your whine about Doctors not titrating people down properly ACCORDING TO THE WAY YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE. AGAIN, if you are in a "critical state of health" GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM. A Doctor is only required to STABILIZE a patient if they are in a "critical state of health". NOT prescribe them whatever pain meds that THEY feel they want or need. "Stabilizing" a patient is NOT titrating them down at a rate that the patient "feels" they should be entitled to. I could not care less how "Big Pharma" got started. I listened to my sister and father rail on "Big Pharma" all my life.

"Big Pharma" is blamed for everything that ever goes wrong with prescription medicine. While they have been complicit in many scandals the pharmaceutical companies have spent billions on many drugs that are good. Nevertheless, how will understanding "how Big Pharma got started" even be germane to where we are today? KNOWING this information will not contribute one thing to where we are today. We are where we are. I don't know where you get the "quotes" you CLAIM to post that I have said. I have called you out on at least TWO occasions and asked you to back up what you posted and I have gotten in response is some rant about how Big Pharma got started or Doctors leaving a patient in a "CRITICAL state". Once again, if you disagree with how your Doctor is treating you then go to another Doctor or go to the ER. I am still waiting for you to show me where I ever called you "stupid" or where I posted that all users of opioid pain meds are criminals. YOU said I said BOTH of these things. Either apologize and admit that you made a mistake or prove your post. I will be waiting. Probably for a long time because you can NOT prove your post and for some reason you do not strike me as a person who is humble enough to say "I was mistaken. I apologize".

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Re: pamelaQ (# 54)

that's exactly what's happening! I actually went head 2 head with my P.M. the order day because he basically said that his life is more important than those who need these meds. I told him even if he lost his licence at least he would still be able to get outta bed in the morning to find another job, go back to school, play with his kids or just go grocery shopping. I and many others can't so much as get outta bed in the morning due to no meds let alone go to school, work a job, etc. He flat out admitted that Dr's are only concerned about their "survival"&nothing else! Why can't they just give anyone on opiates a bottle of Narcan nasal spray&explain how to use it&what the signs of o.d. are? Have all those on opiate meds sign a waver stating if they O.D. it's NOT the Dr's fault&they agree that they cannot sue if they O.D.? They have you sign a waver like that for most operations, so why not this?

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Re: pamelaQ (# 54)

Censorship is alive and well on this website. I posted back previously that I was asking you to PROVE two statements that you made about my posts. (1) you stated that I posted that you were "crazy". (2) YOU posted that I stated that "all opioid users were criminals". Neither of these statements I made. If you can't quote me ACCURATELY then don't quote me at all. There is more than enough evidence to PROVE that a Doctor or PM center can do as they please. NOT as a patient thinks they can or should do. Read post #55 for further evidence of these Doctors doing as they please. The muscle is being put on these Doctors by the government, the DEA and mostly the public. Their idea of what is the proper rate to titrate down on is up to them. NOT the patient. I could care less HOW the so called "Big Pharma" got started. It is NOT germane to where we are today. We are where we are. If you think you are "knowingly" being left in a critical state because the Doctor or PM center does not agree with your interpretation of how you should be treated then you have two choices. Go to another Doctor or go to the ER. I don't like the position we are in no more than anyone else but thinking we can force a Doctor or PM center into a course of action that they do not want to take is just pure pie in the sky. Again, read response #55. Also, if you think a Doctor is out of line a complaint can be filed against the Doctor with the State agency that regulates Physicians in your State.

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Silverlining (# 55) --

I'm truly sorry for your situation in all of this, it's like so many others, it was like mine. The only thing I can say is hang in there, stand firm with your doctors, work with them (we don't have a choice) and pray for better health. I know that sounds inadequate but there are some positives on the other side of not being on pain meds. For one your brain is working at full capacity and secondly you would be surprised at just how high your pain tolerance has become. I was shocked! I live with pain everyday and my quality of life is low to mid-moderate so to speak. I don't drive much but that too is starting to improve. On a another note, I love having my full capacity to think, (reflex not so slow). I now check, recheck and recheck everything a physician tells me. As for prescriptions I look up side effects, if there is withdrawal, if there is pending litigation, etc. It varies from patient to patient but I personally feel that "treatments and medications" should be given full disclosure prior to administration of and as you said a waiver should the patient so wish to proceed. Kind of like purchasing a house or obtaining a CarFax. Once your in your in but at least let patients know the pitfalls up front and don't give "off label medical hardware" when they are paying for the brand. This will prevent all these legal suits that are now all over the TV. I just keep praying that something positive will break open soon. If you want to keep up with the new guidelines and changes you need to keep checking with the CDC.gov and CMS as these agencies rule the roost so to speak. Good Luck and Have a Nice Day!

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Re: w john (# 57)

I did post back. Here it is again. You have your opinion I have mine. In simpler terms "we agree to disagree". Have a blessed day.

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Re: Patrice (# 36)

Hi Patrice! I'm managing. Just underwent my 3rd vascular surgery (stents-bilaterally) last week. It's a combination of taking NSAIDS and my smoking but I still need something for the daily pain. I have been Morphine since Jan 2017, Oxycontin since April 2017 and Hydracodone since July 2017. I now take Advil in the am and AdvilPM @ bedtime. Keep strong and things will improve. Positive thoughts will yield positive results.

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