Getting Prescriptions From 2 Different Doctors For Pain Meds But There Are Conditions (Page 14)

Well I just really need to know if what I am doing is considered doctor shopping. I fell at at department store and injured my knee. Now I have to go to the doctor the lawyer sent me to. He prescribes pain meds for me but the only thing he can treat is my knee. I started having back problems. My primary care doctor sent me to a different doctor and he also gives me meds. But the pharmacy said they would call the doctors and tell on me. So I went and ahead and told the doctors myself so that it would not look as bad. What do you think will happen to me? The pharmacy refused to give me back my prescription. Can they do that?

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REPORT

I am hoping you can shine some lite on my situation, I have been going to two different drs. for my pains meds. my Kaiser dr. pulled a cure report on me. Not to go into our entire conversation, she wants me to go to a pain mgmt. dr. at Kaiser, she asked me to discontinue my other dr. I told her yes. my question is this is she obligated to call my other dr. (who is not a Kaiser dr.) and inform him of the situation. I have not signed a pain contract. Can yourself or anyone out there give me a idea of going to a pain mgmt. dr. means. I have heard bad things and I am terrified of having to deal with my pain and hold down my job. If I lose my job, my sister who I take care of (she has MS) will be on the street. Any info will much appreciated.

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Merrick17, it is up to your dr if they want to contact other drs you're seeing. If you're getting pain meds all either one of them has to do is look you up in your states Prescription Monitoring Program Database and they will see what drs have been prescribing you what meds, the dates, how long they meds are suppose to last, etc. They can go back years in the database.

Going to a pain management dr means that you will only get your pain meds from that dr, you have to have routine drug panels, see the dr once every 30 days and maybe be called in for random pill counts. There are other things like rjules they have about not getting early prescriptions, etc. You will also have to sign a pain contract. Breaking any rule that you agree to will get you dismissed and it may be very difficult to impossible to find another dr to manage your pain.

I have heard that Kaiser has told many patients that they won't prescribe pain meds for chronic pain. It is possible that you may have to see a dr outside of Kaiser if you want to get pain meds, but there is no way of being sure until you get to that point. I am assuming that your current Kaiser dr may be trying to stop you from getting pain meds, but there is no way to be sure. You may want to get a copy of your medical records from the Kaiser dr and read them. Getting two pain med prescription from two different drs is considered doctor shopping in most states. It is possible that your Kaiser dr may believe that you're becoming addicted to the pain meds because that is what doctor shopping indicates.

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Hello Merrick, I hope you're enjoying your weekend and not stressing too much! I'm not sure who you meant your question for....a couple questions.
A. What part of the country are you located?
B. What is a CURE report?
C. How long have you been seeing two drs for pain meds?
When you say you're "going" to two Drs for your pain meds, do you mean every month you're filling prescriptions for narcotics from two drs? I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this but I have to ask; Do you use the same pharmacy?
I don't know what others on this thread might say but I would say I wouldn't think it out of line to ask the Kaiser dr with the Cure report whether she has to contact your non-Kaiser dr. Or whether she plans to inform the new pain specialist she wants you to see at Kaiser that you've been seeing two drs for pain meds. I'm 99.9% sure that lawfully she's not required to do so. At least in Ohio it's not. If she is really smart she's looking at your seeing two drs as a sign that your pain is not being controlled well enough by the one Dr which forced you to keep seeing the 2nd dr in order to keep your quality of life. Working, helping your sister etc. I sincerely hope she's really smart. Let us know what part of the country you're in, k? Take care of yourself!

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Hi Keikee thanks for the kind words. I am in Calif and in my 60's. I have been seeing my Kaiser dr. for 3 yrs. and my 2nd dr. for 1 year. a cures report is Controlled Substance Utilization Review and Evaluation System it is where all schedule II, III and IV controlled meds are monitored. The dept. of justice just rolled out a new version 2.0 in July, 2015. All drs., pharmacists, etc. subscribe to the program. Can you give me any insight to Pain Mgmt, I have heard horrible things, my Kaiser dr. knows via my MRI of the kind of pain I am in. I work 10-12 hours a day and travel sometimes 2 weeks out of the month. I did not ask my Kaiser dr. if she was going to call my other dr. do you know if she can do so legally? she filled my meds but asked me to cut them in half overnight. I am in too much pain to do so without help, do you or anyone out there know what are my legal rights. Thamks in advance for any info. Merrick

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There HAS to be some way for prescribers to share the info that they both are prescribing Controlled Substances for the same patient. I'm a psychiatrist. I only write for C-II opiate/opioid analgesics in emergencies for immediate family. I've never been questioned, but I usually knew the Internist or FP and had my staff send them fax informing them of the Ddx, etc. The burden in my state is on the PATIENT, but I'd rather not see anyone in trouble unnecessarily or "messed up details" ["And Dr. Joey prescribed Valium 20mg three times a day..."]. How this is handled officially I don't know. We only hear about it when "pill mills" and "Dr. Feelgoods" are busted and those patients were PROS, not like our poster at all.

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Dr Joey, the Prescription Monitoning Programs each state has is the best way for drs to look up patients and see if they are being prescribed Schedule II meds. Most states are also connected through the NABP PMP InterConnect. Most states also keep track of other drugs that are prescribed to patients. Most states require a dr to check the PMP before prescribing a Schedule II pain med. The time frame that a pharmacy has to enter the info into the PMP database varies from state to state.

It is not illegal from one dr to communicate with another dr regarding your care. The new patient paperwork that you fill out almost always has a clause in it regarding that dr contacting other health care professionals regarding your care and patients sign it without even reading it. This is all done to save time and in the best interest of the patient. By the way, health care professional includes pharmacists.

If someone is receiving pain meds from one dr and theri pain isn't being managed, the patient should tell the dr that so the dr can adjust the pain meds. Seeing another dr for another prescription because the meds the first dr is giving you aren't working well enough is something that I doubt very few, if any drs would believe. All the stuff involved in finding a new dr and going to appointments there in addiction to the first dr just don't make sense. If the patient talked to the first dr about the pain meds not working well and the dr noted it in the medical records and the patient still went to a second dr for pain meds, the patient may end up not being able to get pain meds at all.

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My staff does that as a matter of routine, Never anything interesting...

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Hello Merrick,

I know that your Kaiser Dr, the one with the CURE report, told you to cut your pain meds in half overnight & I totally get how devastating just the thought of that is for you right now. So your doc wants you to cut your regular dosage in half and that's harsh & I'm thinking you're going to continue with the full dose possibly running out before you can see the PAIN MANAGER. The following suggestion is to be carried out ONLY if you're not taking any statin medicines or any other prescription than your opioid pain pills. And only use this method as you're trying to keep your normal dose of narcotic to the bare minimum. My suggestion is that you take 1/2 to 3/4 your normal dose and wash it down with a big glass of 100% white Grapefruit juice. Preferably from concentrate so you can monitor the amount of water that's added to the concentrate. Make sure it's 100% grapefruit juice and not a 10% blend. After the grapefruit juice, swallow over the counter tagamet HB (Cimetidine) 600mg total. That would be 3 200mg tabs. Buy the drugstore brand. Wash the tagamet down with 4-6ozs tonic water & finally, Chew 2 tums and that's pretty much it. Good luck!

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It is interesting how each state runs there prescription monitoring program (PAP).. In Minnesota the PAP goes into great length talking about that if a patient is going to more then one doctor and getting pain medication from each that the doctor should ensure that the patient is not seeing more then one doctor for pain meds because the patient is not getting sufficient pain relief. If the doctor feels the patient is abusing the medication then they should taper the medication instead of just stopping them. If the patient is unable to stop abusing the medication then they should be referred to out patient or in patient treatment depending on the situation. However these are guidelines which means many doctors will just stop someone pain meds if they do not follow the rules. People do make mistakes but if you are seeing a doctor and getting pain meds make sure you do the following to stay out of trouble. 1) take your meds as prescribed. If you are still in great pain call your doctor BEFORE you take any extra pain medication. People get dropped a lot because they run short at the end of the month. Never take someone else meds or give your meds to someone else (even if they are on the same meds. if you have a lot of people in your house or have children lock your meds. Even though I live by myself I hide my medication in different areas of the house. That way if someone breaks in chances are they will not find all my medication. Pain contract or not, do not fill prescriptions for pain medication except from the one doctor who is treating your pain. If you go to the ER or dentist call your doctor before it happens to ask if it is OK to get a few pain pills from your dentist after you have a tooth pulled or from the ER if you were to break your arm. If you have not talked to your doctor before hand DO not fill the prescription until you do. A good time to talk about this is the very first your doctor gives you a prescription for pain meds. Do not take any herbs or over the counter meds or marijuana. If you have a drug panel it may effect the results and you could be dropped. If you are asked to sign a pain contract do not sign it until you have read it completely and all your questions have been answered. Make sure you get a copy of the pain contract so you can review it as needed. Finally when calling the doctor with question dealing with you pain meds and what ever rules that are in place (such as cancelled appointments) write down who you talked to, the date and time and a brief summery of what was talked about. Keeping the call that is logged on your phone is proof that you did call to ask about your medication or canceled appointment. Knowing who you talked to will only help if the office says otherwise. Some doctor offices now allow patient to email them when needing to ask a question or cancel a appointment. If you use this means keep a copy of what you wrote and the reply you get back from the doctor office. The best way not to get dropped from pain management is not to give them a reason to do so.

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We use the database in question as a matter of course. guess I'm spoiled, because my senior Residents and NPs run that information and vet it. Depending on what they find they inform the Attending, the Asst. Chief or me and we round up the other docs involved. This shouldn't be my job or take valuable time away from patient care or consultations. I've had maybe five significant "problems" in the past year; four of them neglected to note the pt was no longer seeing that do and he didn't forward records and one was outright doctor-shopping. That doesn't mean I won't wrote for a pt obtaining Controlled Substances from other docs. Perfect exam,ole is my dentist. I'm having a lot of work done and it hurts. He writes for #20 Percocet 7.5/300. My Internist and shrink are definitely not prescribing C-II narcotics for me (well, once nan emergency, a neighboring oral surgeon came by and found an abscess. He doped me up pretty good at home with Dilaudid and Valium, reinforced with my IV sedation (same drugs, IV administration) at his office (his wife is also a dentist; she assisted) and then did the procedure. He was my neighbor, not my doctor, but, in that instance, he certainly was my doc. The difference is probably that I didn't sign a "Pain Contract". I supervise but don't actively un our Pain Control Team, so Im just a bit unclear what these things are. I only ask my pts to sign off that they will inform me of any other practitioner who writes from ANY OTHER DRUGS. (Lots of stuff, seemingly harmless, can interact with psych drugs.)

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Thanks for you well-informed post. I appreciate the info it supplied. - No hard feelings, my friend. — Dr Joey

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Hi Sashafeerce, Thanks for your info, I do take Lovastatin. What exactly happens if I follow your formula? I have been trying to follow my Kaiser dr. orders and cut my dosage in half. I was using a cane before to walk but with less meds I can only walk with a pusher with a seat in it so I can sit every few steps. I am currently on the road for business and will not be home for 10 days. I am having trouble with my pain control plus the side effects of withdrawal. I hold a Management position with my company and being together and on top of my game is what is expected, period. Looking forward to your answer and any insights from all readers.Merrick17

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Merrick17, you need to be careful doing anything that someone on a internet discussion board recommends. You have no way of knowing what someones education and training are. They can say they are the President Of The United States, but MedsChat Administration Does Not verify what people say or what they say their education and training are.

Any advice you take from anyone here or anywhere on the internet you do so at your own risk.

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Hi Merrick, My advise is to call your doctor first thing about the symptoms that you are having (withdrawal and pain increase) so she knows what is going. Make sure to let her know how much it is effecting your work ect. I do not know if you have any choice who you see in pain management (most plans have more then one doctor that you can go to) but there is a site on the internet that allow you to look up your doctor and find out how often they prescribe Schedule 2 type medication compare to there peers for there Medicare patients. Of course that does not mean the doctor will prescribe you the medication or what you are on now but it does limit the possibility of going to a pain clinic and getting stuck with a large bill from examing you only to tell you they do not prescribe opiate pain medication to anyone. The information on the site is from 2013 so it's a little old, but it is a good place to start. The site is {editor's note: removed because the link does not work} . I also suggest that if you have not started a pain log to do so. Make sure you put down the level of pain you are in, time and what you are doing. Also note when you take your medication and if that helps decrease your pain. Also if you have a flare write down everything you do to try to decrease your pain. Such as did you use a Lidocaine ointment, heat pack, stretching and so on. How much did doing those things decrease your pain Also note what you do daily to keep pain levels down. Doctor what you to try and do as much as possible other then just take opiate medication to help decrease you pain levels. Doing things like going to a swimming pool to exercise can be VERY helpful or daily stretching. The daily pain log can be very helpful for you and the doctor to see what makes your pain worse and what makes it better. This pain log will also help your new doctor see how much worse you have been since your medication have been cut. The log also should be shared with your current doctor. By writing down on paper how your pain effects you on your day to day activities and it's level along with what helps it can help the doctor see your pain in a more factual way then just saying a few words about.
Many times you will read on these sites that you should not talk about what opiate medication that have worked for you in the past. I find that as being dumb. I certainly would not go to my doctor if I needed medication for my high blood pressure and not let him not know what has helped in the past. If he does not prescribe what you have been on before as him why he is giving you something different. Also do not be surprised if the doctor might want to try different things to help your pain. No matter what be honest polite but firm and ask questions. Today the answer I didn't know is no longer a excuse if you mess up with the clinics rules.

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Hi Merrick. Don't pay any attention to the hater & the "they think I'm a dumba$#" police. So you take a statin drug. That just means you're gonna skip the Tagamet. You will still benefit from the grapefruit juice, tonic and tums. This thread is here for people with questions about anything at all to do with your pain management issues so do not listen to the one or two creeps hanging around looking for someone they think they can upset. Sorry this is short but I've got a 15 year old diabetic dog whining like crazy at my feet and it's driving me insane. Please let us know how things turn out for you!

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Merrick17 The site that I was talking about in my last post is from Pro Publica just google it. When you get there put in part D medications and click on prescription checkup.

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Hi Merrick, the hip forum site has a potentiater (sp?) Instruction much like the one mentioned before. Type hip forum into your browsers search bar, then type opioid potentiater into their search bar.

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Hi Sashafeerce, thanks for your latest, you are an animal lover, I have been in the rescue community for 25+ years, we are good people. I understand your info now, I will try and let you know how it works.. You said to skip the Tagament and go with the rest, from the threads I have read the Tagament is important, if I use it does it affect my Lipitor? Thanks for caring and my fingers are crossed that it works, give your woofer a hug for me -- Merrick17 p.s. I had a cat who was diabetic and she was 21 before she crossed over that Bridge.

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merrick17, anything you try based on what anyone says here or anywhere on the internet is at Your Own Risk. And remember that anything that affects you also affects your sister.

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I wouldn't advise any patient to stop taking a drug (I know Tagamet is now OTC; is still cimetidine)t'd I have diploma and license for it. Why not ask the Supervising Pharmacist at your usual your drugstore (they usually have Pharm.Ds now) or — here's an original thought — the prescribing physician?

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