15+ Yrs Hydrocodone Use/drug Replacement Therapy

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I have used hydrocodone for more than 15 yrs, due to lupus and fibromyalgia. I want to get off it and was wondering: if I go into detox, will they then put me on drug replacement therapy? I take 30-40 mg of hydro./day (3-4 Norco) but I don't go buy pills or dr. shop - that is my RX

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I would recomend cymbalta it works for depression anxiety and fibromyalgia. So it works for the pain strangley enough and puts you in a good mood not like other antidepresants. I would recomend to keep some of the norcos or a lesser narcotic for breakthrough pain for say the morning or night when the pain is at it's worst.

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2

I've been taking them for 12 years due to lower back pain and pain from Multiple Sclerosis. I take between 30 and 40 mg ( Norco 10/325) but I am more concerned about the Tylenol toxicity on my liver. If it is working for pain, it is not an addiction, remember that. Don't let the media sway you into you believing you have an addiction, I would tell them walk a week in my shoes and tell me what you would do.

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3

Paul, thank you for saying that. I too am so sick of hearing these money hungry rehabs telling chronic pain sufferers that they are addicts..There is a BIG difference between addiction and dependence, dependence will happen when you take a drug like norco for chronic pain. You don't drug seek, you don't take more than prescribed, you are not an addict. before I give my opinion, I just want to ask you, why do you want to get off of the norco? Is it not working anymore? That happens when you have taken it for a long period of time. your body has grown tolerant and you probably do need an increase. However, like Paul, I would worry about the tylenol and liver damage. Its not the narcotic that will hurt you, its the tylenol..If you want to continue on narcotics, you can ask your doctor for some different choices..IMO vicodin is a horrible pain killer. there is another narcotic called synalgos DC that is much better for pain.Only problem is, you may have to go to a compounding pharmacy to get it. When vicodin came on the market in the 1980's dihydrocodeine (the drug in synalgos DC) fell out of favor with doctors, it is widely used in every country but the US..Goggle it , and it will give you loads of information. On winipedia (SP) it says it is 10X stronger than morphine for pain relief, but not sedating or as strong. so dont let that scare you away..Also I have heard that there are many better ways of dealing with the pain from Fibro, but Lupus, I have no idea about that, If you go to a detox, they may give you suboxone to help with WD's ande even though you aren't an addict, your body will go through WD's and it isn't fun at all. As for opiate replacement, the only two drugs used are suboxone and methadone, and no doctor in his right mind would put you on methadone Maintenance..As for pain relief, suboxone is worthless, that is why although it has been legal in the US for years for pain, it was unknown because it doesn't help..I wish I could help more, but like I said, I don't know what kind of breakthroughs they are making in medication for lupus, but for fibro, narcotics are seldom used anymore..One thing I did forget to say, if you do wish to continue on the vicodins ask your doctor to ask the pharmacy to compound it so you get much less tylenol..No matter how healthy your liver is, tylenol will break it down..BTW, Paul, ask your doctor if he will ask the pharmacy to compound the norco so you don't get as much tylenol..I still can't figure out why they stopped using aspirin in compounds, they still make them, but the cost is outragous, and can be hard to find..I also heard that darvon may be taken off the market due to poor painkilling properties and some people are having seizers when taking them..There is another old medication that is supposed to work really well, it is called Talwin..I have never taken it personally, but I have heard friends say it works great. but the problem is cost..Talwin isnt popular with doctors so insurance wont pay for it, and I hear it is exspensive. Hell, I am moving to Canada, we are never going to get affordable health care in the US,,,,Hope I helped..

Pat

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4

I've been using Hydrocodone-APAP 5-500 TABLMCK white oblong w/ M357 on tab for 3 yrs.Works well for back and severe shoulder pain but am finding I need more to do the job. What exactly am I taking and what happens when I need more tha the prescribed dose? Is Hydro indeed an opiate. Whats the deal.?

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5

To all taking pain meds that contain Acetaminophen, I take Milk Thistle and NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine) to counter any Acetaminophen toxicity on my liver. I use them 3-4X a week, and make sure you have regular liver screenings, every 6 months or so. My neuro wanted to put me on Oxycontin for my pain, but I do not want to go near that drug. In terms of healthcare, I am in favor of the healthcare the way it is, I don't need anybody but my Dr and Myself making decisions, I am smarter than 99.999% of government employees.

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6

Yes Paul - Milk Thistle and NAC - Is awesome - have been take 15mg hydrocodone for over 6 years - and I also take Oxandrin which is an anabolic steroid. I have HAE and Fibro, and the hydro works fantastic for me. I am not sure why people think narcotics don't work for fibro pain - Just not true - and I did take Cymbalta - sure its great if you don't mind gaining about 40lbs and consider killing yourself. At least that is what happened to me.........

I have done a lot of research on addiction as I did not want to be addicted either - and I fully agree with Paul and Pat - you are not an addict if you are using it correctly and being honest with your doctor.

Good Luck - and hope you find some relief.

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7

yes, they most PROBABLY will, but be careful. They'll start u on Suboxone or Methadone...the two latter are very strong long-acting medicatons. they would probably start u off slow, between 30-60mgs a day. you take it early in the morning b/c i find they peak out like 4.5 hours after taking ur meds, depending on what dosage they put u on.

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8

YOu might even be put on a combo of both for a period of time due to your unfortunate ailgnments.

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9

2 yrs ago I had a horrible dirtbike accident in Alaska. Spent 4 wks in intensive care. Broke 9 ribs on my left side, 6 of which were broke in 2 or MORE places. 4 vetebras were broke. Breast bone split, both collerbones broke. Internal injuries were: Punchured lung from 3 ribs, spleen ruptured, kidneys bleeding ( very present in urine ) and they had me on the liver transplant list for 2 wks because it seemed to be failing. I recently lost my job, and moved to Arizona because my parents health is horrible. My pain management doc in AK's office burned down.All records lost!! Arizona laws have made it impossible for me to find a pain management Doc. They are all Jaded by this addiction crap. Does ANYONE out there have a solution, other than getting meds off the street ( I don't have insurance right now, but can pay for a few visits, not all the frickin' tests I've done time and time again )??? Quality of life sucks right now!! Beautiful state, and I can't enjoy any of it!! Plus dealing with the emotional state of my parents!!

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10

Thanks! Paul, your comments are "on the money." I too can relate with the Back (Spinal) pain. I've been on the Hydrocodone for 2 years now, and the only reason I take it is because of the pain. Although I'm sure that if the pain is ever "gone" someday, I will have some of the withdrawal symptoms. I'll gladly deal with them, to get rid of the back pain.........LOL

Greg

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11

I dont think 3-4 norco, (1 gram apap or 1.2 grams) when the limit is 4 grams is going to cause any concern for liver problems. People have taken 2 extra stregnth tylenol a day or more for 35 years. The issue comes to play when one takes upwards or 4 grams a day (or more) and drinks alcoholic beverages. The liver loses the glutathione and acetylcycstine which protects it from the alcohol and tylenol. When both are present, they act synergystically to do a real number on the acetylcystine and you can get liver damage. If you go to the ER with liver toxicity, they give you mucomist, which is aceytlcycstine. You can actually buy these as supplements over the counter and take them to help protect your liver. I would if I took daily tylenol. Excuse any mis-spells. I was in a hurry.

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12

I would say this is not accurate. If you have legitimate injury/disease, and it can be DOCUMENTED, not "it hurts", assuming all other modalities have been tried without success, opiates CAN be tried. If the patient gets quality of life and more activity, (not sedated and asleep all the time) then they can be continued. Narcotics dont work for everyone in pain for various reasons.

Arizona laws have nothing to do with your inability to find pain management. Get your records together (you should always keep a copy) and if you do not have them, go to a primary care dr and start over. MRI, CT/Myelogram, EMG, physcial therapy, referral to specialists and so on. Then you get a documented workup and you can get pain meds -----if warranted. You cant just walk into a dr and say "hi, I am from alaska, and the clinic burned down with all my records, and I am in pain and need narcotics". You have to start over. Fair? no. Thats the federal law though, narcotics are used as a last resort when other modalities have been tried, documented, and a medical need exists. Cant document a medical need without a diagnosis!

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13

FYI, recent findings over the last few years of study have have brought cause for medical research institutions to force the FDA into a restatement of the acetaminophen, your liver deteriorating filler found in most compounded drugs (most often prescribed with hydrocodone), national acceptable daily intake down from 4gms-2.6gms. This took affect almost 2 years running now, so just be careful with that s***! I've been taking the stuff for 12 years now and when I found out through a new D.O. That actually cared for my well being, my liver was pushing into the no go sector. So now I bite the bullet and shell out the extra $200 for a hydrocodone capsule from a compounding pharmacy. It may be expensive, but what the hell is money even worth when it comes down to losing your life over it??? I use 30mg capsules 6 times a day and my toxicity reports are in the clear since the past 3 years I moved away from acetaminophen, thank you Doc! You can get these capsules in any volume up to 40mg, so if you need to ure the pain and your life is worth more to you than money, ask you physician and get them to switch you over. Trust me, I almost lost my life to that crap when I was only 27, the money isn't even a question these days. So good luck to all y'all. P.s. my punctuation is terrible, so don't judge me monkey ;)

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14

Cymbalta is not the way to go in any case for an attempt to supliment hydrocodone for weening off. Cymbalta had no significant active ingredients that would counteract hydrocodone and is not something you should be recommending as such. Believe me, not only was I on cymbalta for almost a year, but I also happened to end up dating the bay area rep for the product, so I know all there is to know about it. Not would I ever have been taking it had she not provided my doc enough free samples to ensure I never had to pay for it, at $380 a month for a drug that is not typically covered and doesn't have a good enough effect to warrant the costs, forget about it! And nevermind the depression that settles in for months after quiting the drug. Just another typical med that was rushed through trials and paid for approval through the FDA, what a great system. Did I mention the girlfriend rep was also Mormon and told me she wouldn't touch the stuff even if she wasn't, that info was what put her on the list of X's ;)

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15

You might try Kratom (just google it or look on wikipedia) for getting off pain pills. I know literally hundreds of people that it helped. It's legal in the US and inexpensive.

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16

Does anyone know what kind of pill this is? white, round, scored on one side and a small triangular symbol with the numbers 831 on the other.

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17

It appears to be alprazolam (Xanax) 0.5mg which is a tranquilizer (the pill is a very weak version).

If the imprint says "logo 831" it's Metoprolol succinate ER (extended release) 50mg used for high blood pressure among other heart issues.

Hope that helps.

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18

Your comment about dependency on a drug is not being addicted is WRONG!! BUT...let me explain.

You are offended by someone telling you that you are addicted because of your perception of an addict....and I DO understand why you feel that way. However, every one of us are addicts.....addicted to SOMETHING!! It could be drugs (legal or not legal), alcohol, food, exercise, biting our nails, cleaning house (more commonly referred to as OCD), we could be addicted to a relationship, sex, coffee, pancake syrup, tea, cola....the list goes on and on.

I personally have an addiction to food and cigarettes...however I have lost over 100 lbs, and I havent smoked in almost 6 years ( I would love to have one now). I also like to have my glass of wine every night!!

If you are using the medication for true pain, and you are taking it correctly, and you feel you really need it, then do not stop taking it just because someone tells you that you are addicted to the medicine. Like someone else said, tell them to walk a mile in your shoes.

Someone else commented on taking cymbalta....which is a great idea for pain! It has been found to relieve pain of neuropothy, fybromyalsia, MS patients, and many others. Yes it is an anti-depressant, but the medication is used now for other reasons too.

If you do decide to come off the pain medication, do it under the control of your physician....and do not suffer in pain from your condition. There will always be people willing to judge you....it is NONE of their business!!

I hope you now understand what an addiction is, and I hope that you are not offended. Talk to your doctor about your feelings, or seek a counselor....there is nothing wrong with that either. Best of luck to you whatever you decide.

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19

Paul, I have taken Hydrocodone for probably 15 yrs. for Psoriatic Arthritis. I also get severe tendonitis. For the last two years have been suffering with all over excessive sweating (hyperhidrosos). I occurs with the littlest bit of exercise of any kind andthe rise of heat and humidity. It's extremely anoying, unpleasant and embassing. I'm doing research first for a substitute medication before discussing it with my doctor. Have you noticed any hyperhidrosis. For me, it's going to be benefical to try to wean off of the Hydocodone and live a more normal existence.

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20

I have a new dr.I was told that he wouldnt give narcotics I have fibromylagia and recent hip surgery,Im on oxcodone 500/325.Three a day.MY life would be horrible without pain relief.ANY suggestions.

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32

Medications just fool you and make you an addict, stop fooling yourself and make your mind set your body properly thats it

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31

Dependency is addiction even though you want to sugarcoat it
It is what it is
Stop fooling yourself
You are one more addict

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30

Kratom is the best replacement helps pain and withdraws

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29

Cymbalta has destroyed my liver. I am currently waiting to see if they will take me as a transplant patient because my fibromyalgia is not under control. Be sure to check anything you take for liver damage. ..because you can't live without a liver.

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28

Tramadol is a good way to help get off Norco they help me with withdrawal

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27

I was in a bad carwreck 7yrs ago. Ive been at a regular primary dr. Ever since k.ive been on 3 hydrocodones 325s 10mg and xanax and klonpins now 2mg twice a day for my anxiety. Cause ive been broke and no insurance. K now ive got insurance finally blue cross and blue shield.so now anyway i. Just went to a painclinic dr. And anyway my neck was broke in this wreck and my whole neck and back hurt bad. And hydros dont touch my pain. I told the dr. This. And so he leaves me on hydrocodone 10mg 4x a day and adds 2 10mg methadones for my pain. The 2 methadones help a little more. But not much. Wat do i do?

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26

If lyrica was denied try Nortriptyline. For withdraws Clonidine works good

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25

Cymbalta made me suicidal & i was in my 50's, big pharm wants you to think it's just that way with the young...sure.

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24

I was in a car accident 3 yrs , ago been seeing a pain mgmt Dr since, he's been prescribing me the norco 7/325 but he wants to discontinue scribing them to me and is making a guess that I have fibromialgia, without doin tests so they scribe me lyrica but my Ins denied lyrica and if they discontinue the norco idk what I'd do..... I can't function without it bc of the chronic back pain n slipped bulging discs plus arthritis in my back n neck and I'm only 26 yrs old, I don't wanna be this way but that's the hand I got dealt, I'm fighting to keep my pain meds which I know everyone with chronic back pain can be very depressed ppl with bad thoughts such as I, without them but when I say if ur goin to not scribe me anymore narcotics then I want something to dull the wd, it is bad enough that my muscles are deteriorating and they look at me as an addict it's not fare I didn't ask to be this way and don't want to be this way but for the ppl that abuse the drug make it a million times harder for the ones who really need it..... So all I'm askin for is answers from ppl that may be dealing with the same thing I'm goin threw....

Thanks for listening

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23

Spoken like a true addict ... I have been on hydrocodone for over 5 years 10/350.
I have stayed within my prescription. However, I have gotten tired of the pharmacy making me feel like a junky, which I was.
Spent a month weaning myself off the drug, and guess what ... the pain is LESS !
Stop fooling yourself about this drug. Remember your Doc is getting a kick back form the drug companies.
Tell yourself you a 'better' then the drug, take charge of your life, because this drug only degrades any logical thought process

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