Subutex To Methadone (Page 3)
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I go to the clinic and get methadone but missed a day, so i took a half a subutex. Within 15 min it sent me into immediate withdrawal. How long should i wait to take my methadone again? Is it going to send me into worse withdrawal?

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That was the worst response i've read in a long time. It's not the naloxone that causes precipitated withdrawals, it's the buprenorphine. Don't try to help someone when you don't know s*** about these drugs.

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No, subutex has NO naloxone. Suboxone has naloxone at a ratio of 4:1. Each can be abused equally. Naloxone makes no difference. The Bupe in both is what causes the horrible withdrawels but only if the receptor is active with a full opiod agonist. And these will occur even if taken sublingully.

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Yes thank you. This verwon guy telling people that "as long as its just subutex your fine"....well he's just plain WRONG and i wish he would stop dispensing incorrect advice. ugh, this guy. I have been there PERSONALLY. Also the naloxone is in there so u cant abuse the subutex.

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So for future reference it would be wise for all to look at it this way: suboxone and subutex are the same damn thing. Sure one has poisonous naloxone and the other does not, but the naloxone does absolutly nothing due to the fact that the bupe is way stronger and doesn't even let it get off the bench and into the game! All the p.ws and blocking actions of both drugs are the same and is 100% caused by the bupe. The naloxone is only there to thwart generic competition due to how expensive it is. And it worked cuz look how long it took for generic suboxone to get here and how expensive it is. However some people who are sensitive or allergic to naloxone may have issues with it but other than that the naloxone gets "no time in the spotlight".

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you should be ok if u do the methadone AFTER the subs, but you might not feel the methadone much til all that sub is out of you. next time u miss your dose, dont do subs. u would be better off just waiting til u can get your dose the next day.

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I made the same mistake today, missed a dose of methadone and took a subutex. I am wondering, were you ok when you took your next dose?

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I've been taking opioids for 17 years, 5 on Subutex and you can go into Heavy withdrawal if you take as little as 2ml and Suboxone has the Naloxone but Subutex will also give major withdrawal if not used correctly, i cant endorse any Subutex abuse but will inform you of what i know for educational purposes only!! Before taking Subutex make sure that you are on about 20ml of methadone before switching and you have to be in withdrawal from the methadone to use Subutex otherwise you will be sick from withdrawal. The active ingredient is Buprenorphine derived from Thebaine. Do your research and be safe!!

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I took 90 mg's of Mdone from one of the best pain doctors in the country. Then took 4-30 mg's of roxi for 7 days, then 4-10mg roxi's, then went cold turkey which didn't work and I was in severe pain due to hernations and ruptured disc's. My dr. then had me take 4-10mg roxi's and 2-8mg subutex pills A day. Never a withdraw then I went back on methadone and 2-15 mg's Roxi's a day. Things are great. Ask your doctor. It's all about your quality of life. I am opioid dependent so I am basically an addict. Murph

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Whoever said that Subutex wont send you into immediate withdraw is WRONG! I did this personally, was on the methadone clinic, missed a day and took an 8mg subutex and with in 15 min i was in full withdraw...shaking, cold sweats, weak, vomiting...personally i would never advise anyone to resort to methadone! I have wasted years of my life on that and do not have much to show from it as well as lost memories...once i got off of methadone it was like waking up from a long nap. Have a 15+ yrs struggling with addiction, now i take an herb that i order online called Kratom. They sell it in some headshops in states where it is legal, but that kind is useless, to get pure kratom you have to order it online because it is not approved by the FDA. of course the best thing is to get off all of it which i had then had 2 brain surgeries and they told me id be on pain management for the rest of my life and then that's when i discovered the world of kratom. If anyone wants to try kratom, do a lot of research as there are many distributors and some of them do not have quality kratom. so read many reviews before picking. Good luck to you...

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naloxone or not...ya dont take the subs if theres even a CHANCE of methadone in her body. it aint pretty my friend. ya that verwon is gonna send someone into a bad rattle...(hope not) i like how verwon is always like "is there anything else i can help you with?" um, no thanks....sending me into precipitated withdrawals will be enough for today!

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It's truly amazing how many people have an opinion on a subject they know nothing about! If you've never taken something (e.g., methadone) how can you have the expertise to comment on something you have no experience with?

Verwon & shaniqua shouldn't attempt to offer advice on subjects they have no personal experience with!

...And Rocky, if you've not been on a regular dose of methadone you don't have to necessarily wait for the bupe to get out of your system, you won't go into w/d or anything. You won't feel the full effect of the dones for a little while, but that transition should pretty comfortable.

On the other hand, making the move from subs to dones appears to be a bit more complicated, to say the least. As a matter of fact I'm very glad I found this forum b/c I have a friend who wants to get off dones and I suggested buprenorphine, as it got me out of a 10yr done fog. I was about to give her 4mg to substitute for her morning dose of dones but decided to check just to make sure what I had didn't have any naloxone in it. Damn I'm glad I wound up here. . .She would have been one pissed-off B!!

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no what was said was that the person missed their methadone one day and took some subutex to try to make up for it. since the methadone wasn't all out of their body, they went into precipitated withdrawal. THAT is what was actually said. if you dont wait long enough when you take subutex after opiates like H or methadone, you will get mega sick. taking more subutex doesnt change that, and would only make it longer until they could get back on their methadone. or at least till they would feel better from the methadone. also this person wanted to know how long before they could more methadone, NOT more subutex. and by the way, to answer THAT question...the methadone wouldn't really help. i know for a fact you can have opiates AFTER taking subutex but it wont make you feel better until that subutex wears off.

you are 100 percent correct when you say that people are better off on subs than the liquid handcuffs they call methadone tho. that s*** is gospel. and the clinics keep you on as high a dose as possible. they are a business and DO NOT want people leaving. i had to see their doctor every time i wanted to go down a single friggin milligram. but if i wanted to go up 10? NO PROBLEM!! the dosing nurse would take u right on up there, no doctor necessary. methadone clinics are disgusting. so ya, when u talk about people stumbling around on too much methadone? theres a reason for that. i would guess that the clients i knew while at the clinic could have been on a third to a half of the dose they were on.

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What was actually said was the person didn't take enough subutex. It takes more subutex to make up for methadone. Methadone is alot worse then subutex. I never have done the methadone but have seen alot of people that was on it and they was so messed up he couldn't figure out how to get past the wall and took care of kids while on it well needless to say kids got hurt and taken from the parents they never got them back. I guess the methadone meant more than there 3 children. I don't want anything like that the subutex has saved me alot of money and helps tremendously if i could find a doctor in INDIANA not to high priced to prescribe subutex to me it wouldn't bother me to pay for the script instead of paying 30 to 50 a pop. But not anymore I'll just do a little subutex and im good. Just want my own doctor and prescription, wouldn't sell em at all.

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please dont listen to VERWON. he/she is absolutely giving bad/wrong advice. there doesnt need to be naloxone in the meds to put you in withdrawal. please trust me on this. you DONT want these precipitated withdrawals! it kills me to see someone coming off as such an "expert" when they are just plain WRONG!!

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always wait at least over 36 hours before taking subutex after taking methadone. The subutex blocks all opiates in your body and thats what sent you into withdrawal. This happened to me and I had to go to the hospital. It sucked so bad. You can taper off the methadone with only a couple 8mg of subutex. And you take a smaller dose each day. Works like a charm!!

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heres the deal...if you are on the buprenorphine already, and you use "real" opiates afterwards? no, you wont go into withdrawal. the bupe will so saturate your receptors that the real opiates cant cling on there and basically you just wont feel the opiates. its a waste. believe me, i tried. BUT...if you are on "real" opiates such as methadone, H, oxys etc and do the bupe AFTER, and you dont wait for that stuff to leave your body? YES INDEED you are in for a bumpy ride. it all depends on when those opiates go out of your body. normal, run of the mill street H? it can be gone as soon as 4 hours. really good H like i get? 8 hours plus. methadone is long acting and we are talking 48 hours or more. i never took opiate pills so i dont know how long they take. when i switched from methadone to subutex (buprenorphine) my dr. made me wait about 60 hours and i was ok. i had to be in pretty darn active W/D before he would even start.

BUT...i once did that good, long acting H. i only waited 7 or 8 hours (this stuff held you up to 12 hours!) and went back to the bupe. HUGE mistake...i was in hell, big time. since these different opiates take different amounts of time to clear out, you sort of have to go by how you feel. you need to be in a pretty far state of W/D....not just a little achy. so we are talking pretty sick: sneezing and yawning and hurting and anxiety and the whole nine.

contrary to what this VERWON person says, you absolutely can and will go into precipitated W/Ds if you take bupe too soon AFTER opiates. it is NOT necessary for there to be naloxone/narcan in it. when this happened to me, i was on subutex, NOT suboxone. THERE WAS NO NARCAN/NALOXONE IN IT. please dont make the same mistake i did. i thought i knew what bad W/Ds were...omg i didnt. that was some seriously bad ish and it is better to be safe and wait til you are quite ill to be on the safe side. dont let anyone tell you that since theres no naloxone in there, that its ok to take right away. TRUST ME ITS NOT.

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So, you're saying the ROUND WHITE 54/411 8mg generic buprenorphine tabs will cause immediate W/D if mixed w/methadone?

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omg THANK YOU texpert....did u read my accounts of the HELL i was thrown into by doing subutex (not suboxone) too soon? i was gonna jump off the freakin roof. i took suboxone for a very small time and had to stop b.c it was wrecking my stomach. so i got subutex and was on it for years. THATS what i was on when i went into precip wdrawals. NOT suboxone. this verwon guy KEEPS telling people to go ahead and take subutex right after opiates. ugh i hate seeing people who are GROSSLY uninformed dispensing medical advice to people who are just searching for an answer. it pisses me off every time i see his/her name with the "is there anything else i can help you with" crap. all you are going to do, VERWON, is send someone into the worst withdrawals they have EVER experienced. and once again people: DO NOT START SUBUTEX OR SUBOXONE, EITHER ONE, TOO SOON AFTER DOING DOPE, METHADONE OR ANY OTHER OPIATES. YOU WILL REGRET IT I PROMISE YOU!!! rocky, i hope you didnt listen to verwon and start your subs too soon. i get that he/she is trying to help but on this he is just plain WRONG!

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Good things p.ws cant actually kill a mfer you could have someones death on your hands, Verwon. Naloxone is basically useless as it just cant compete for the opiate receptor vs bupe which has a way higher affinity for the receptor. The REAL reason it was added was because of its price and how expensive it is to combine it with the bupe in a manner that works correctly. These factors make it almost impossible for a cheap generic to be made, thwarting competition. Also, addition of naloxone made the fda and dea feel safer allowing it to be prescribed in take home doses for addicts. The naloxone can NEVER outcompete the bupe. Pwd from suboxone and subutex is identical. The only difference is some people (such as me) get nasty side effects from the nalox and must have subutex. Educated yourself so you dont give and more bad advice, or at very least dont look stupid to people in the know

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thank you!!! someone with some sense finally! subutex CAN and WILL throw you into precipitated withdrawal if taken too soon after methadone, oxys etc. no matter what OTHERS on this site may say. like this VERWON person. he/she keeps telling people that they can do opiates and then IMMEDIATELY use bupenorphine and they will be fine. this is absolutely NOT TRUE!! PLEASE do NOT listen to this VERWON on this. dont believe me? Take an opioid, wait an hour and then do subutex (the bupe w/o the naloxone) go ahead. do it. dont believe me. you WILL REGRET IT. this comes from an addiction specialist AND personal experience. not from "something i read" or whatever. some people just have to find out for themselves.

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