Subutex Question For Someone That Really Really Really Knows! (Page 2)
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Looooong read. I warn you now :)

Ok. PLEASE don't explain how it works or what it does. Save yourself the time. I am extremely familiar with how it works and what it does.

But I have a question that's been on my mind for many moons, forever actually (10 plus years) and I can't seem to get a straight answer to it no matter how many times I ask it and where I ask it. I am asking it here for the first time.

Just always get the usual, familiar rhetoric explaining to me how it works and where it binds and what it does, blah blah blah, but no one ever can explain the "why" behind all this wonderful science!

And at the end have one first hand case PROVING what I'm questioning to be true.

Ok so follow. So if buprenorphine is stronger than and has a higher affinity than let's say Oxycodone as a real life example, and will kick off that opioid from the receptor, this meaning it "replaces" it and fills it, then WHY bother waiting to take it?

Immediately or 24 hours later, either way, it's going to sit in that same receptor and do the exact same job!!!

I'm so tired of reading about this precipitated withdrawal crap. Now, tired of reading about it does NOT equate to not believing it. You would be an ***** not to believe it because there are just too many cases of it to be ignored so it's a real thing. I just don't understand WHY it's a real thing?

Because I cannot POSSIBLY imagine why having the opiate kicked off the receptor immediately, or having the remains of it kicked off 24 hours later, can produce such drastic night and day results?

Heck, I've know addicts that were given Narcan to reverse overdoses who didn't go through such pain as you read about some people trying to come off with Subutex or suboxone too soon and not waiting long enough!

24 stinking hours? Seriously? I mean I just don't understand WHY it would be ANY more painful OR horrible OR agonizing to just take the Subutex at anytime you want whether it's during opiate intake, an hour after Intake, or 24 hours after opiate intake, either way, no matter WHEN it is done, it is going to perform the exact same function. It's going to kick it off and replace anything that's in its way!

So why if you took it too soon would you go into agonizing withdrawal? You should NOT be going into ANY withdrawal whatsoever even if you take it immediately, because it immediately fills the receptor and prevents withdrawal.

I mean that's the entire purpose of this drug is to prevent withdrawal. That's what it is designed to do. That's what it's made to do. Whether you take it immediately or 24-36 hours later?

I mean if it took a couple weeks after you stopped taking opioids to go into withdrawal and then you could use Subutex maybe I could understand why it would matter if you did it immediately but 24 hours? That's absurd to my brain!

Now for the proof I was speaking of. After enduring watching my wife going on and off Suboxone a dozen plus times, each and every time having to watch her in agony as she detoxed off Percocets for 24 hours first. (Heavily researched this drug before I tried to put her on it for the first time and had that SAME question THEN 10 years ago)

Sitting back and watching her do something that I had ALWAYS considered to be useless, what I ALWAYS considered to be needless and what I ALWAYS considered to be nothing more than a ploy the doctors PURPOSEFULLY do as well as the manufacturer, that is to put the patient into DEEP detox so they can become their NEW PIMP, and heroes and rescuers, I ran across a small psychiatrist in Texas..

Giving up on explaining my theory to him as I had already convinced myself there was no need to detox first, was only being done to hook the patients on a very expensive product, the psychiatrist started laughing when I asked him about the usual 24 hour detox.

He became my white knight in shining armor when he said "no that's ridiculous, Suboxone will immediately replace the opiates and there's no advantage one way or the other to doing a detox first"

Smiling from ear to ear but refraining from telling him I have always thought that, for the first time after dozens of times I gave it to my wife WITHOUT waiting and guess what?

Yep that's right, she immediately responded, felt great, and took up right where she left off after just doing a couple Percocets a couple hours before, thus proving that she NEVER needed to do that 24 hours first as I have always thought.

But my question remains, I have seen far too many documented stories of precipitated withdrawal as well as read tons of agonizing stories that were NOT precipitated but just more or less people who went through living hell by doing it too soon... when there's absolutely no medical or scientific reason why they should have???

What gives???

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Re: RustedOne (# 49)

Blah blah blah. Whatever. Not worth responding to, cuz no logic whatsoever in your post. Not sure why ones like you bother posting if your only here to make trouble.

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Re: Master Plumber (# 48)

Think I would go with the guy who lived it three decades myself. You insinuate Dr's don't know s*** with your long babble. And continue the finished conversation. You like to seem important I guess? Even making comments about the number of replies. I'll take substance over quantity.

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Re: RustedOne (# 47)

Says the guy who disagrees with a DOCTOR that specializes in this area! Let’s see, who shall I believe...

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Re: Master Plumber (# 46)

Says the guy who answered himself thinking it was somebody else.

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Re: Kim (# 43)

People just “think” they have withdrawals??? MY GOD WOMAN. You really are stupendously stupid. Why are you here posting with such an ignorant understanding of opiates?

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Re: Kim (# 44)

If that someone is YOU, with the memory and intellect of a dead animal, I think it’s very possible. But for most individuals with a decent amount of intellect it won’t be hard to follow... as made note by the dozens and dozens and dozens of replies, except yours, which means u don’t understand the question because it’s over your head, so you attack it! LOL

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And yes it’s a long read! TOO LONG! DO U THINK SOMEBODY CAN REMEMBER THE QUESTION AFTER ALL YOUR RAMBLEING ON!!! AND ON AND ON!!?

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That’s a bunch of bs! I’ve never ever heard of anybody have withdraws from dissing too soon.
ANS AS FAR AS BEING STUPID YOUR THE BIG DUMMY THAT JUMPED FROM THE FRYING PAN AND INTO THE FIRE! “ or your wife- both?) I had a lil ol percet problem you could kick in a week and ( u or she ) started takeing subs? NOW THATS SO STUPID!!!! U JUST “THINK” u had withdraws! GO 3-4 DAYS WITHOUT YOUR SUBS!!! AND TELL ME HOW THATS WORKIN FOR U!!!! Hahaha! U could’ve kicked a Lil ol stupid pain pill crap in a week! Now you’re a lifer on subs! Unless u can go sick as crap for about a month!
Now.... WHOS THE STUPID ASS? Yeah,

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Re: Winston Dr (# 30)

You have no idea what you're talking about. You'll get the same effect from either, -utex or 'xone. The Naloxone is in it ONLY TO PREVENT INTRAVENOUS USE. Further more, telling people it's so people don't abuse bups is also wrong. Bupes have a 32mg ceiling effect, taking more does nothing. As far as PW is concerned...I waited 36 hours. Way too many of my junkie acquaintances claim PW, I wasn't going to chance it. I was on methadone 27 years. Not a few silly percs...

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Re: Kim (# 40)

Of COURSE it matters dummy! Did you even bother to read my post? No, evidently not... because the reason it matters is MAJOR. Individuals will not have to go through hell detoxing for 24 hours first...DUH

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QUESTION, WHY? WHATS THE REASON FOR YOUR WORRY? DOES IT REALLY REALLY MATTER? THAT'S LIKE A CHILD ASKING WHY THE SKY IS BLUE! Are you trying to ask a question nobody has asked? If someone answered it, is it going to make a profound change in your life? Why spend hours and hours typing all this crap for “really... nothing”. Point is “DOES IT REALLY MATTER!!!!”

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Re: Addxn Doc (# 37)

I know I know I’m an idiot!!! I make that mistake constantly because I’m not really a regular here.

And to make it worse??? Look below at post # 34. Talk about STUPID. I actually read my OWN response to someone else and THOUGHT it was a response to me and then replied to myself about how stupid the response was!!!!! LMAO.

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Re: Master Plumber (# 36)

I bet if we took a poll all PERCIPATED withdraws would be due to Suboxone NOT Subutex I'd bet my life on it cause all 5x's were on suboxone not subutex. I've done the same with subutex(only waited 5hrs) and had no Perc. WITHDRAWS so hope that helps

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Re: Master Plumber (# 32)

That post was in response to #30 specifically, regarding mechanism of action of agonist- antagonist drugs, and not to the original post.

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Re: Winston Dr (# 30)

Stand corrected didn’t see prior post as you made two! Wrote long reply but under review and may take few days to show.

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Re: Winston Dr (# 30)

Oh wow!!!! I apologize, as I did NOT see your prior post, only the short one that I got an email alert for. So I do stand corrected AND...I think you have NAILED at least one aspect of the issue and you have indeed provided a possible answer and makes PERFECT sense now that you explained it :)

However I will add that my wife has always been on Suboxone and NEVER Subtex so your answer would not address her. So only way to figure that out is to take a poll and see if the ones that went into precipitated withdrawal were on Suboxone and not Subutex.

Still...I like what you said :)

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Re: Master Plumber (# 9)

LMAO!!! So you think my post was about “singing the attributes of Suboxone”??? Wow...not even close!!! And this thread is just perfectly fine and wondering why you even bothered posting?

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Re: Master Plumber (# 32)

For someone who has been in pain management for 12yrs, I just yesterday took off a 25mcg Fentanly patch and had my last two oxymorphone 30mg ER's. 5hrs later was not feeling that good. So I had 3 suboxone not subutex pills and took three quarters of one. 2hrs later PRECIPITATED WITHDRAWALS!!!!! YUP Friggin horrible, only the 5th time this had happened in 12yrs. My god I thought I was gonna die. 4 hours later I took the other quarter and started to feel better. 5 hrs later, another half and 5 hours after that another half. I just finally started feeling better 30hrs later, so that's my story!!

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Re: Addxn Doc (# 31)

No offense but I don’t have anything backwards, I explained it exactly as it was explained. And unfortunately doc, you just went on to do what I was speaking posters to not do :) All you did was explain to me how it works and really did not address my question whatsoever, as guessing you glanced over my question and didn’t want to read the long version which is what I think happened, but you answer does not apply in any regards to my post.

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Re: Winston Dr (# 30)

I believe you've got that backwards. If you take any Buprenorphine product before you take a full agonist opioid, you will not feel much of anything. If you are prescribed Suboxone for example and you take Percocet afterwards, the suboxone has blocked the receptor for the Percocet. On the other hand, if you are regularly taking say Percocet, and take suboxone on top of it before the Percocet has worn off, you will have an episode of withdraw based on what you had taken closely before the suboxone...Naloxone was simply placed into Suboxone to be a deterrent away from IV use. Buprenorphine drugs are amazing for people who truly want to get well and either stay on maintenance or come off completely by transitioning to extremely low doses to curb high dose agonist withdraw..

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