Subutex Question For Someone That Really Really Really Knows! (Page 4)
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Looooong read. I warn you now :)

Ok. PLEASE don't explain how it works or what it does. Save yourself the time. I am extremely familiar with how it works and what it does.

But I have a question that's been on my mind for many moons, forever actually (10 plus years) and I can't seem to get a straight answer to it no matter how many times I ask it and where I ask it. I am asking it here for the first time.

Just always get the usual, familiar rhetoric explaining to me how it works and where it binds and what it does, blah blah blah, but no one ever can explain the "why" behind all this wonderful science!

And at the end have one first hand case PROVING what I'm questioning to be true.

Ok so follow. So if buprenorphine is stronger than and has a higher affinity than let's say Oxycodone as a real life example, and will kick off that opioid from the receptor, this meaning it "replaces" it and fills it, then WHY bother waiting to take it?

Immediately or 24 hours later, either way, it's going to sit in that same receptor and do the exact same job!!!

I'm so tired of reading about this precipitated withdrawal crap. Now, tired of reading about it does NOT equate to not believing it. You would be an ***** not to believe it because there are just too many cases of it to be ignored so it's a real thing. I just don't understand WHY it's a real thing?

Because I cannot POSSIBLY imagine why having the opiate kicked off the receptor immediately, or having the remains of it kicked off 24 hours later, can produce such drastic night and day results?

Heck, I've know addicts that were given Narcan to reverse overdoses who didn't go through such pain as you read about some people trying to come off with Subutex or suboxone too soon and not waiting long enough!

24 stinking hours? Seriously? I mean I just don't understand WHY it would be ANY more painful OR horrible OR agonizing to just take the Subutex at anytime you want whether it's during opiate intake, an hour after Intake, or 24 hours after opiate intake, either way, no matter WHEN it is done, it is going to perform the exact same function. It's going to kick it off and replace anything that's in its way!

So why if you took it too soon would you go into agonizing withdrawal? You should NOT be going into ANY withdrawal whatsoever even if you take it immediately, because it immediately fills the receptor and prevents withdrawal.

I mean that's the entire purpose of this drug is to prevent withdrawal. That's what it is designed to do. That's what it's made to do. Whether you take it immediately or 24-36 hours later?

I mean if it took a couple weeks after you stopped taking opioids to go into withdrawal and then you could use Subutex maybe I could understand why it would matter if you did it immediately but 24 hours? That's absurd to my brain!

Now for the proof I was speaking of. After enduring watching my wife going on and off Suboxone a dozen plus times, each and every time having to watch her in agony as she detoxed off Percocets for 24 hours first. (Heavily researched this drug before I tried to put her on it for the first time and had that SAME question THEN 10 years ago)

Sitting back and watching her do something that I had ALWAYS considered to be useless, what I ALWAYS considered to be needless and what I ALWAYS considered to be nothing more than a ploy the doctors PURPOSEFULLY do as well as the manufacturer, that is to put the patient into DEEP detox so they can become their NEW PIMP, and heroes and rescuers, I ran across a small psychiatrist in Texas..

Giving up on explaining my theory to him as I had already convinced myself there was no need to detox first, was only being done to hook the patients on a very expensive product, the psychiatrist started laughing when I asked him about the usual 24 hour detox.

He became my white knight in shining armor when he said "no that's ridiculous, Suboxone will immediately replace the opiates and there's no advantage one way or the other to doing a detox first"

Smiling from ear to ear but refraining from telling him I have always thought that, for the first time after dozens of times I gave it to my wife WITHOUT waiting and guess what?

Yep that's right, she immediately responded, felt great, and took up right where she left off after just doing a couple Percocets a couple hours before, thus proving that she NEVER needed to do that 24 hours first as I have always thought.

But my question remains, I have seen far too many documented stories of precipitated withdrawal as well as read tons of agonizing stories that were NOT precipitated but just more or less people who went through living hell by doing it too soon... when there's absolutely no medical or scientific reason why they should have???

What gives???

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Re: Master Plumber (# 8)

Opioid modulator is buprenorphine, which is a partial agonist of the µ-opioid receptor and an antagonist of the -opioid receptor.[1] And naloxone is an opioid antagonist so when you have your opiate receptors full and decide to kick out half the party and mix a full opioid agonist to share a receptor with naloxone the body goes into immediate withdrawal. But it’s the worst most intense detox but the kick is only 24-48 hours obviously depending on the person usage etc

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Re: kasiyama (# 3)

I appreciate your reply, but this is the wrong thread to post it. Doesn't have ANY relevance whatsoever to the question being asked and singing the attributes of it belongs on a general thread about Subutex where it would be more appreciated.

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Re: WillChillRNMS (# 5)

Unfortunately not :) that's not taking it a step further. The point I'm trying to make is that scenario is the exact same in one hour or 24 hours. It doesn't matter that the chemical structure is different. The structure remains the same at one hour or 24 hours

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Re: Master Plumber (# 6)

My husband took Morphine, Opana, for 4 years before his hip replacement 3 years ago. His hip and back were killing him...this man doesn't complain. I gave him less that 1/4 of a strip and he threw up and felt like s*** for almost 2 days.

So with no opiates in his system why would this happen to him?

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Re: Mike84 (# 4)

I absolutely agree with you but it seems we are in a very very small and minuscule category of people :)

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Subutex has a different physical structure (as in chemical) so it DOES NOT have the same stimulation as Oxycodone or any other narcotics. Is that the answer to your why?

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I have taken subutex and suboxone 3 hrs after taking opiates like oxy 80 or morphine and it has never happened to me. I wonder if it is certain people. I have done it more than I can count and never had precipitated withdraws

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I've been on buprenorphine for a year after being on norco, morphine, fentanyl, all of them... over a period of years. I also have cancer, hepatitis c, and osteoarthritis. There's not a day that goes by that i haven't been in pain. My spine was damaged by osteo myelitis. Buprenorphine has been the best pain reliever on the market. When i dont have to take it i suffer no withdrawals or insomnia. I also take 8mg/2mg tablets 3 times a day. This may not sit well with those who are trying to take their medications recreationally. If you choose to do so the effects will last around 12 hrs. in and out of sleep. I would really recommend to move with caution and not drive on it. At times it will cause a catatonic zombie effect. Peace.

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Not sure but it has happened to me 3-4 times in 10 yrs!!! N yes it does suck, dont know the WHY but im living proof n my best friend has happened to him same amount of times over the same period of time. Maybe they were just bad Strips or bad suboxone pills I wish I knew why so I could avoid it happening. Hope this is slightly helpfull.

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I didn't go into any withdrawals before I started taking my Suboxone, for the 1st time at the doctor's office.

He had me take a drug panel before giving it to me and said I still had Oxycontin in my system, after not taking any for 30 hours. My pain was coming back, but that was before taking the Suboxone. I took 2 strips and walked out fine, not sick at all.

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