Subutex / Suboxone Withdrawals (Page 3)

Surely I'm not the only person reading in shock and disbelief. How is it that so many people are unaware of the basic facts and information regarding bup. I am reading in horror that woman are trying to detox during pregnancy. That is the worst option - it is risking both lives. I also read a question regarding the effectiveness of mixing bup with methadone. Anyone using these meds should know it causes withdrawals, that's the point of bup. I feel lucky to have drug treatment services that are free but able to stand along what is provided to private patients. It's horrible to think of pregnant woman on bup having to come on here to ask for info and not telling their dr in fear of judgement or welfare. What is up with a woman thinking its an option to detox at five mnths preg.? How doesn't she know she is risking both lives? Addicts have and always will be stigmatized society frown upon us, but i want to get ppl thinking and talking, why are woman making the choice to risk the health of their unborn baby rather than tell the dr they're on bup, all addicts who choose to engage in. and show consistent sustained compliance desrve a chance at rejoining society and pregnant woman deserve unbiased healthcare. I am still feeling sick from a post i read,a woman 8 mths preg asking what she can do she was already hanging out and cant get more bup for 12 days, a reply stated that the hosp prob won't give her any. I wanted to shout i was reading it days too late, how doesn't she know her baby is gravely ill?

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REPORT

I'm in southern Maryland and finally found a pain management dr that IS NOT AFRAID TO PRESCRIBE THESE! It took me almost a year to find a compassionate Dr who actually cares about his patients! Do not order on the internet! You will most likely get ripped off and only receive "look alike drugs". I know Richmond is 80 miles from where my doc is here in Waldorf, add 70 miles to that and you have 150....which works out to about a 3 hour drive. I don't know about you, but I would gladly make this trip once a month for much needed pain relief. {edited for privacy}

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HOUSE: You are one hundred percent WRONG. They aren't both "just opiates". Buprenorphine is a partial antagonist opioid. Which means, smart guy, that the Bupe will knock every single bit of any other opioids off of your receptors and throw you into HELL. I have experienced it myself personally, along with my research and the information on it that I have from two different addictions specialists. Oxys, Vicodin, etc, are agonist opioids, whereas Bupe is an ANTAGONIST opioid. Look it up. So you should maybe do some research before talking nonsense.

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HOUSE: AND>>no they are not "both opiates". Bupe is and OPIOID, not an OPIATE. And yes, there is a difference. Boy, you are just a FOUNTAIN of mis-information.

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I am happy to help you. {edited for privacy}. Being a recovered addict and on Subutex for about 25 yrs, I know all there is to know. I also have Medical degrees, Nutrient Therapy cert and run programs for addicts. It is time for all addicts to be treated as respectively I'll humans with brain chemistry problems, not moral or legal ones. A huge shift in the paradigm must take place now and we are doing it at our institute.

Editor's note: We do not verify the credentials of our users and nothing stated in our forums is intended to be taken as medical advice.

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Well thank you for pointing that out to me,KKH! whatever would I do without you and your vast knowledge to keep me on the straight and narrow! Now here is a bit of wisdom for you...LIGHTEN UP!! Your welcome... HOUSE

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HOUSE: It's not "wisdom", it's INFORMATION. This is a chat for INFORMATION. If you want to go through life being misinformed, that is totally your business. If you post mis-information on a chat room, that is EVERYONE'S business. If I see someone on here posting mis-information, I am going to correct it. That is just the way it is. People on here need the right info. Sorry if I offended you by attempting to educate.

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SCOTT: You are so right. I am fortunate that I have been able to work with different doctors and addiction specialists (besides my own research) who do treat you like a human being with a problem. NOT a moral or legal one, but a medical, chemical problem. When it comes to opioid addiction, it quickly becomes a MEDICAL problem, and stops being about "bad choices" and "morals". Unfortunately I know that there are many out there who don't see it that way. But you, and I, and many others will keep fighting the good fight to help others and change misconceptions. Keep up the good work, Scott!

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Thank you K!!
We have a voice.
Mother Theresa said drops make oceans!!Were putting drops of wisdom into the huge ocean of life.
Lets fill it with love for theaddicts still in pain.
P

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I get tired of how everyone messes this up, not one person got all info correct. Even drug counsels and sub docs. So I'm setting it strait and it makes complete sense if u just follow the logic. But I'm almost positive that my understanding is correct bc it makes sense and u can research, just got to skim through the bull. I would research and research until it made sense. Ok first I always hear that suboxone will block other opiates and subutex won't but that's not true. Subutex does block ops. They say the naloxone is what blocks but that's not true, it's the buprenorphine itself that blocks ops cuz it sticks to receptors better then other ops high affinity. The naloxone is ineffective because as we all know with drugs there's different routes of administration. Now there's something they call bioavailability.. And just as it might sound it's your body's biological availability to each drug depending how it's used. Now to the point, naloxone is practilly 0% bio available sublingually. Only when it is taken intravenously will it 100% kick in but in doing so will block the be in the sub, so the only difference between suboxone and subutex is that the nalaxone is in it to deter you from taking it intravenously. Also u can take opiates on subutex and suboxone and the nalaxone will not throw u into precip withdrawal, it has nothing to do with that. Only when you take suboxone after taking opiates will precip. occur but that's from the bupe itself so the subutex will put you in precip. too cuz of bupes high affinity to bind to opiate receptors. Now if I am wrong please show me where your getting your info. I don't see why people always get it wrong when u can just google it. But don't just take the first answer for true dig.

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MICHAEL: I have said exactly this and all of this on here and other threads about a thousand times, probably in a hundred different posts, INCLUDING the part about the Naloxone being in there so you can't take it intravenously. So I guess, thank you for putting the whole story in one post!

If I had a quarter for everyone who has said "there's no blocker in the Subutex, so you're ok", I could have a personal jet on stand-by.

It doesn't matter though...a week, a month, SOMEONE on here will post that taking Subutex after opiates is ok because it has no "blocker".

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MICHAEL: One thing you have wrong is on the Naloxone being 0% bioavailable sublingually. It is more like about 12%. That's why they have both sublingual and nasal spray Naloxone for home use in overdose. And why Naloxone can and will make people sick if they are sensitive to it. If it were 0% bioavailable through sublingual or nasal, it wouldn't make people sick. I could only take Subutex because of Naloxone sensitivity. It exacerbated the migraine and nausea problems I already have.

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Well my friend is newly pregnant and heard she can only take suboxone now. Why is suboxone safer than subutex?

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MJGirl: Every doctor I know would have her on SUBUTEX, not SUBOXONE, so..??? If it was me, I would get a "second opinion" on that one.

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Can I take suboxone for a couple days and not get withdrawals again after being clean off subutex for 40 days? Or will it delay the mild withdrawals I still have? And I want to know how long it will be till the cold sweats stop? I was on subs for almost 5 years.

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CHRIS: You can take Suboxone without going into withdrawals, as long as you haven't taken any other opioids. If you have taken other opioids such as Percocet, methadone, etc, you will need to wait.

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Hi. I have been on Suboxone 12/3 mgs for a little over a year now! I never take 12mgs. I feel fine between 6-9 mgs. My one friend is prescribed the 8mg subutex sublingual pills and I was looking them up to compare the difference between Suboxone strips and the Subutex pills and one site said that subutex is an opiate? If I'm not mistaken isn't an opioid just like the Suboxone? I'm good with my Suboxone and don't plan on switching. My Dr told me that people seem to abuse and sell subutex more than Suboxone strips, so I'm just trying to gather more information here. Thanks :)

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STEFANIE: Subutex and Suboxone are basically the same drug, with the only difference being that Suboxone has a small bit of Naloxone in it, which is to keep people from administering it intravenously. Subutex has no Naloxone. They are both forms of the same drug, Buprenorphine, which is a partial agonist/partial antagonist opioid. You may see people referring to it as "Bupe" on this forum. An agonist opioid is the kind that gives pain relief, or can get you "euphoria". For example, Vicodin, Morphine, Percocet, Methadone, Oxys, etc...the drugs we use for pain, the drugs we are addicted to, these are all opioid AGONISTS. Naloxone is an opioid ANTAGONIST, meaning it BLOCKS the effects of the AGONIST opioids. So an opioid agonist like Naloxone is what the emergency room doctors would inj. in someone if they were overdosing on opiods.

Buprenorphine (the active ingredient in Subutex/Subutex) is a bit of BOTH the agonist and the antagonist. So the AGONIST part fills your brain's opioid receptors, keeps you from having withdrawal and gets you "well", while the ANTAGONIST part keeps you from being able to put other opioids in your brain without some serious consequences (like horrific withdrawal).

Since the SUBUTEX has no Naloxone in it, people can administer it intravenously. See, that Naloxone really isn't bioavailable (active in the body) when taken under the tongue, so it doesn't do anything to you when you take your Suboxone the way you are supposed to. BUT, when inj., the Naloxone is 100% bioavailable (active), and will fill your brain's receptors so none of the "good" opioids can get in, and that causes withdrawal. So since the SUBUTEX contains none of the Naloxone, and since it is a dissolveable pill, it can be administered intravenously. I would not recommend this however, as inj. pills can be a really bad idea. Besides the fact that it is meant to get you OUT of the addict behaviors. This is likely what your doctor was talking about when mentioning that Subutex is more likely to be abused or sold.

Any other questions, feel free to ask me on here. I am involved in medical research, plus I was on Subutex for years, and am currently on tablet Methadone. You are on a pretty low dose of Suboxone, which is great. (Even the 12 mgs wouldn't have touched me when I was on Bupe!) Don't go up any more if you don't have to!

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Which is stronger, a Suboxone film or the white round pill with 155 on them? I was switched to the pill and I don't think it's as good as the films. So please let me know ASAP.

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I work in an environment where several of my residents are on prescribed medication. My question is, after taking Subutex how soon does it take effect?

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Re: Verwon (# 1)

Ya your wrong it's called precipitated withdrawal and its the buprenorphine itself to hat causes it due to its binding affinity,as soon as it kicks in despite the ROA it will knock all full agonists off your receptors add then your soul will be crushed

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