New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!? (Page 7)
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Hello all,

I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong.

Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc.

The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way.

I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread.

TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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I really have had no problems at all with the WATSON 853. They work all the same to me. I switched to 7.5/325 perks & they seem just as strong to me as the Hydrocodone 10/325. I've been dealing with chronic pain such as DGD and 3 herniated discs & t rheumatoid arthritis at the grand ago of30. They all give me relief. Hope this helps.

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All opiates Do Not contain abuse-deterrent properties. The opaites that do contain abuse-deterrent properties are labeled with that information.

They do not manufacturer prescriptions drugs that contain more than 325 mg of Tylenol any longer and have not for over two years.

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There the same pills but less tynol that's the difference I been taking these pills for about 15 yrs there never going to be like the blue lortabs 10/5 mg so just be glad u still have them that they haven't take them away they r trying to take these pills of market to me the Watson 853 r better the yellow one that's my opinion

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This medication has changed... They aren't the same as the yellows... This is bull...and paying the high prices...

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Well said! I sure would love to read that article you posted! Really wish one of the big investigative shows would pry into this.

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ABellflower I couldn't have said it better myself except to add the dishonesty of the government and its agencies too. The abuse excuse will also be used for many decades to reformulate every narcotic analgesic each time the current patent comes close to expiring so the pharmaceutical companies can keep the strangle hold on their patents.
The sad thing about it all is the suffering human beings that no one seems to care about. Unfortunately a whole lot of people are going to have to live with no quality of life and kill themselves before anything is done about it. It will take a huge outcry from the public to change. We're the extreme minority, so don't hold your breath! Make no mistake about this, it's all about pharmaceutical companies profits, lobbyist money, pack money and campaign money! The government will never win the war on drugs so their going after the easiest target to claim an empty victory, us the suffering citizens.
I wonder what the government's excuses/lies will be when street drug abuse and crime from it blows up in their faces from this whimsical witch hunt on narcotic analgesics? I hope they all wind up like us, suffering with little to no relief. That would be justice!

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You honestly think ppl with severe chronic pain get medicine and just because it looks different they automatically decide it's not going to work? That's ludicrous! Do some research into the fraud the pharmaceutical industry has been involved in before telling ppl that a real issue is all in their heads!

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MandyShea, Yes, you said it right. I didn't realize this "quality reduction" campaign, if you will, also included cancer drugs, antibiotics, etc., but I might have guessed, considering the magnitude of dishonesty rampant in the pharmaceutical industry, both in the U.S. and abroad.

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If the purpose of this board is to clarify and enlighten one another (as well as to share opinions and personal experiences) about hydrocodone pain meds, why not read through the thread a bit? It may help answer some of your questions or, at the very least, give another perspective to consider.

But, once again, the color, per se, of the pill is not the actual problem. Nor is a person's tolerance to the drug - to a degree this may impact the drug's effects, but not to the extent we are seeing and hearing about on this board.

For the final time, it is the abuse-deterrent properties used in the manufacturing process of nearly all scheduled/controlled drugs that have changed the potency of a particular medication.

I posted a link on here somewhere but won't do it again. It is a link straight from a government site that specifies which drugs are being altered (reduced in potency) and when this whole thing started; it began in stages several years ago. Europe got in on the act, too, but that's another story with other, UK documentation, if I recall (not included with my post).

Say what you will, think what you wish, hope for the best. But this is what we've got now, and no pharmacy is going to have that certain brand or color or strength, etc. of hydro that replicates (or even comes close) to what you got in the past.

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I believe it's all in your head cause when you try somthing that is the same but different color ext they're the same just color change the miND plays tricks on you so if you don't think it's going to work it wont.

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I know in butte county the DEA is really involved in the opiums that are being prescribed to people like me my dr was told he could no longer continue giving me them anymore and one year ago i broke two vertebrae in my neck c6c7 and they told me it is because the DEA is cracking down on them because too many people are getting the hydrocodone and other meadications i dont know if this situation is similar to your county but i have recived the same ones and i feel nothing i have taken these for a very long time so maybe they are changing it to see if people are truly needing them to see if they notice or just being really cruel

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Definitely agree,they do work,unless you're taking around the clock.only thing I don't like with most pain meds is rebound pain.

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Got my prescription today and they work that's why I'm up at this hour of the morning.
And who was it that said the old ones gave me energy.true but purpose is to relieve pain

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You can get another.brand,my big chain pharmacy orders a few different brands.maybe check another pharmacy

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Just wonder if anyone has noticed that the white M367 tablets seem to be less effective as they used to be? I know my pharmacist said they order them because they are cheaper than the other brands. Just curious...

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I just got a script for the new Watson hydracodone. No relief I've been taking h.c. for 5 yrs. For chronic pain in my legs and shoulders. I no when something's amiss. Somebody is playing games with chronic pain sufferers

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I have a watson 853Script myself and i have noticed certain times the medication will work better and other times not i admitingly take 2 to take my pain down but of course have to be careful as i hate running out early i also have a morphine sulfate 30mg twice daily to help keep the pain level down awaiting a fusion of my l3and l4 last may they were off 5 and 8milimeters now still working they are permanatly damaged afraid but needing the surgury but can still tell the diffrence regularly when those dam hydros have been skimped unfortunately none of us can do a dam thing about it except be thankful we can obtain anything from the goverment in my own mind better than being in complete pure 100% agony of pain with no relief AtALL let me know if somebody can convince the dea. to allow all 10mg. Of hydro codone in every pill by law and the pharmaceutical BUSINESSes to actually abide by law behind closed doors to actually do this never gonna happen even if it was law money is to powerful in this world we chronic pain suferers just gotta deal with it and not think about it.

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I agree no one should have to hurt. That's not in dispute. What is being disputed is what is the legally acceptable variables of ingredients in medications. Of course the more meds you are on and for a lengthy period of time you are not going to get the same relief as you did in the beginning. However, if you think there aren't pharmaceutical companies out there skimping on drugs then you are seriously misinformed or in denial. This has been going on for years! Including cancer meds, antibiotics, pain meds, etc... There have been plenty of exposes, journal articles and investigations to prove this. Please don't presume someone is not getting the same relief, cure or whatever because they have been on that type of med too long or take too much. That is not normally the case. Besides, at the end of the day we are all different as are our bodies and the way we react to meds. The relief or remedy you get from something may not be the same as I do.

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These is easy. Your body over the years has built up a tolerance. Try switching to something else like oxy or even tramadol. A big kicker to show they still work don't take them for a day. All they did was remove the die.

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For anyone who still feels confused about what is happening to the potency of their medications, PLEASE do yourself a favor and read my back-to-back posts from March 21, 2016. You will then realize that switching from one manufacturer to another (generics vs. brand name) or buying from private druggists vs. chain stores won't really bring any satisfactory change.

The problem is that most scheduled drugs have been going through stages in the manufacturing process that will give them abuse-deterrent properties. It's all being done to curb the prescription drug (and opiate epidemic) in America. The only entities that stand to really gain from this are the pharm. companies, the middlemen, and the government itself. Patients in very serious pain will only lose. And they won't be the only ones.

As someone else posted on this thread, some people will more than likely take more of the drug than they should, thinking they will receive a higher dose of narcotic when, in actuality, they will also be taking in more of the TRULY harmful chemicals (e.g. acetaminophen, aspirin, etc). causing damage to the liver and/or kidneys, etc. Just as dangerous, there will also be (unwise) people who head straight for illicit drugs to get relief if taking the pills fails to "deliver."

Obviously, there will be no advantage at all in increasing dosage of the drug since the new formulations are "abuse deterrent," meaning they have ingredients in them that will cause a person to feel uncomfortable or, generally, unwell if they exceed a certain dose. All of this is being done so that a person won't succeed in getting any feelings of euphoria or a "high" from the meds. The feelings of energy some people have described having felt from the pills of the past will be diminished, as well.

Since (presumably) most consumers are not aware of the specifics involved in making their medications less prone to abuse , they will also not likely understand why they feel sick to their stomachs or why their head is throbbing with a terrible headache. Nor will they understand the mental changes, such as depression. These symptoms will result because the drugs are now made to cause unpleasant symptoms if a person takes more than a certain amount -- Well, now, that's the question, isn't it? .... more than what amount? Who determines that? Particularly with generics, where the amount of the active ingredient is already so variable?

Short of becoming a lobbyist or joining a protest group, there is little one can do about the situation right now, a problem made worse by the fact that we are in an election year in the U.S. There are always those politicians with personal motives behind issues such as this one.

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