New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!? (Page 17) (Top voted first)

Hello all, I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong. Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc. The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way. I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread. TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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I agree with the government/pharmacy conspiracy. I had a horrible month due to bad quality or certainly defective new generic norco. I had no pain relief & a migraine headache, from a company called aurobindo (later found it was made in India - found many others w/ the same horrible reaction. I obviously can't do anything about it for at least 30 days. Family Fare pharmacy was NO HELP AT ALL (where I got this crap). Barely made it through the 30 days, then got the white Watsons- was told it should be fine, wrong! Not a migraine, but still had bad headaches & very little pain relief. I'm trying to find out the best generic brand of norco 10-325 but have to struggle thru another 30 awful days first! I've been hearing the pale yellow Watson is better, but would like to be sure. I don't want to keep going thru this craziness. I have real pain issues!

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I have two bulging discs, and one herniated disc in my back. I have Waston 853 10-325 white pills from Walgreens. They do not work at all!! I've just contacted my doctor for other options. These pills are bad, and something is definitely wrong with them. There's no doubt about it.

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My best recommendation is to change pharmacies for a different brand. Stay away from walgreens because they carry them. I've had better luck with CVS. There's something wrong with those Watson white 853. There's either not enough hydrocodone in them or more realistically the buffer is to hard pressed that they don't activate the right way. Which is why is makes it seem like a weak time release. I contacted Actavis, and seems that don't want to here it. So just stay away from Actavis made products altogether. They won't be able to stay a float. Then they lose. You the consumer have more power then you think. Don't buy their brand. They go away. Just my opinion. Take care, and to all those suffering everyday from pain. My heart goes out to you. Try to stay strong, and resolve issues. You don't have to sit there and take it. I'm for sure not. Keep your head up. Much love.

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The problem is Watson pharmaceutical was bought out by Activis that is the problem. I too have suffered for many years and was taking the percocet 10mg/325 mg which worked really well to manage my pain until I could no longer get the normal Watson brand or the Malincrocrft brand. Everyone starred pushing these pills from Activis or Amneal Pharmaceutical which doesn't work. I went through withdrawals taking it. No one wants to listen they think your a damn junkie and you don't know what you are talking about it but I was fortunate enough a very nice pharmacist that worked for CVS actually wrote me a note saying that the binders used in the manufacturing from Activis and Amneal doesn't agree with me and I was lucky enough to find another pharmacy that carries the Malincrocrft brand that I having been using for over a year now without interruption but I did have to drop down to the 7.5 / 325 to keep the Malincrocrft brand otherwise it would be the Amneal or Activis brand. These pharmaceutical companies are supposed to be using the same ingredients but I know fir sure after going through withdrawal several times they aren't and no one seems to give a crap. I psychological twice the money using the pharmacy I use but I don't want to chance getting stuck with the ones that don't work and being sick so I gladly pay more every month so I don't .

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i experienced lack of effectiveness w the 7.5s the efficacy has been terrible. whatever filler they using is bunk.

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I have been taking this medication Narco since 05 for chronic pain for neck and back and I suffer from muscle spasms, and there is a difference between the yellow and the white.I have to take white all through the day to relieve pain,where I can take 4 at the most of the yellow and have a very comfortable day! I got refilled today with some white pills and I know its going to be a long month!! There's a big difference!!!

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Re: Lynn Pain (# 370)

I am so relieved to know that I am not psychologically crazy, which I was beginning to question. Last yr my Norco medicine was changed from yellow to white. Was explained to me that many are allergic to the dye coloring in them. At that time, over yr ago, there was a small difference in the effectiveness, but however, I was able to tolerate the pain, as I also took Excedrin in-between doses. Also chalked it up to completely eliminating the fentanyl patch on my own when I had a person attempt to break into my home, knowing I was across the street at church.

She tried breaking in knowing my dog bites, (is a whole nother nightmare). However back to the Norco. This year, several months back, Norco was changed to Watson. I seriously questioned if my Dr or pharmacy lowered the strength or even put placebos in my script. Well this last month, my pharmacy changed brands without telling me, where I could've had an option to take my script to a diff pharmacy. This brand is mellicrift (not spelled correctly), but I'm sure u know what I'm talking about. Different binders in them and my system isn't absorbing the pain med. My Dr told me to try ibuprofen with the pain pill to help the medicine work. This month has been awful. Every pain pill. I take 4 a day. I have to take 800 mg of ibuprofen with each one, along with Excedrin or more ibuprofen in-between every dose as well. I literally have taken a total of 60 ibuprofen, since filling my script, along with 30 Excedrin, and I have 10 more days to go before I can have another month's prescription. Soon as I thought my pain med couldn't get any worse, because as I said earlier, they definitely did something with the Watson pain pill, several months back, in my area anyway. But thus month has been the worst.

I have a hangman's break in my neck, a 7'in screw literally in my neck, with the odontoid peg fractured n spreading through my body along with a fractured skull and spinal cord damage from a car accident in 2005 and in 2008, close to 09, that I even knew I existed. Got my records to even know what happened. Was 9-10-05, two a.m. that accident happened. Neck surgery performed, and discharged 9-14-05. Usually for a much less severe broken neck surgery a person is kept in the hospital for six weeks or longer. Also had hemorrhaging in the brain, place that controls coordination, expressiveness, organization. Specialist told me I was far luckier than most, if u want to call it that. Said most all ppl with injury, hemorrhaging in that area of the brain remain clueless. Never know they are here and alive.

The ppl out there abusing n selling pills are destroying the help for us people that truly do suffer with real chronic ongoing pain. There are more of the ppl abusing the medicine than evidently there are of us who are suffering worse than what we already were. I just pray that somehow my liver n stomach can last another 10 days. My pain wasn't controlled to begin with. I have asked Dr many times to change the Norco to something else that would really help control my pain. I haven't had any dang life because I suffer so terrible with the pain. Am already 56, am running out of time to accomplish all the things I want n need to. Instead live in my house isolated and in pain, missing life and work, everything. Now they're screwing with the little bit of relief I had.

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Re: Tootie (# 3)

Sorry for your pain. I'm living with major pain myself. Something needs to change

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Re: Verwon (# 1)

None of the pharmacies around me carry Qualitest or Watson any more. They only have Mallinckrodt and it’s about 50% less effective. It sucks. Like younive been in hydrocodone for over 10 years, never had a problem with effectiveness until The brand change. I guess they would rather have us suffer safely.

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Re: Sandy (# 5)

Wats 853 yellow
And the 853 white then the darn v3601 bright yellow shortage - my doc said that all yellow mends affect
Me best and now prescribes my bars by actavis (yellow 2mg ir) well shoot everything but for the qualitiest 10/325s which my very reputable physician saw in all of his patients some had better effects with white while some didn’t notice while about another 3rd had withdraw

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My prescription for 10/325 hydrocodone has not been working. It is Watson brand. ??? I have severe RA and am not able to walk without cutting the pain.

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I have been taking pain meds. For yrs. Started with gout in my knee. I rather be hit in the head with a bat swang by Barry Bonds. There is no 1 to 10 pain scale. 10 is to low!!! The Dr. prescribed Tylenol 3. Codine 30 mg. 500mg. Acetaminophen. We found out that I also had a liver problem, so they switched over to strictly the Codine. Now I take oxycodone 10mg. There has been times I ran out of them early and I know that it is illegal to get from a friend, but I had to do what I had to. The point I'm making is that the WATSON 853 White oblong pill works. It is all in the people's minds that there is something different or wrong with them. They need to take out the Acetaminophen. That I think causes more problems. So thanks for listening to my opinion.

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queen, talk to the Pharmacy Manager. Their picture and name is up where customers can see it.

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queeniek, the yellow tablets are generic for brand name Vicodin. Frankly, I'm not sure if there is even a Brand Name Norco, Vicodin or Lortab. All of these are combination hydrocodone and acetaminophen. Insurance rarely pays for Brand Name drugs when there are as many different companies that make drug as their are that make this one.

One of the reasons Brand Name drugs are often better than Generic Drugs is because even though the active ingredients have to be the same. if a Brand.says it has 10 mg hydrocodone in it, it has 10 mg. If a Generic says it has 10 mg hydrocodone, it can have 8 mg-12 mg hydrocodone in it. And in the last few years it seems to have been on the lower scale. A Brand won't be the same as a Generic because the inactive ingredients are Not the same and that can affect how the med is absorbed.

You can ask your Dr to prescribe you Brand. On a prescription there is a place for the Dr to put or chose one of the following, Selection Not Permitted, No Substitutions Allowed, Dispense As Written, Brand Name Medically Indicated. For insurance to maybe pay for a brand name, the Dr has to do extra paperwork for Prior Authorization and insurance companies require the generics be tried first and they have to accept the reason the generic didn't work and brand is needed. The cost of a Brand drug is much more than the generic. If a prescription bottle says a med is Hydrocodone. 10 mg/Acetaminophen. 325 mg. Generic for Norco, the med is Not Brand Norco.

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queeniek, I don't believe they make the Brand Norco any more. All of the manufacturers I've found make the generic. Watson sold to another company a while back and I haven't read anything positive about the hydrocodone/acetaminophen that company makes.

I hope you were able to get a brand that works for you.

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I have been at it about the same amount of time, I took the big green watsons 10/750 at first these white ones didn't seem to work then I used a Tylenol 325 with it.. As time went on I just got used to the new ones. Don't double up. I tried that to.. You will get used to them, with me I think it was all in my head! It's not easy at first, I used icy hots.. 2-3 hot showers a day, slow stretching. But now I'm good, Texas wants to get rid of pain pills every month.... Hope I helped??

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Not sure if this helps but I been on atoz narcotics an non narcotics. I'm in pain management which allowed my family doctor to write my pain meds if he would by sending him a recommendation letter an he is certified to write anything I need but not suboxone an subutex so I been on high dose opiate's now for over 10years still am but a new doctor took over I went from 360 30mg Oxycodone ir up to 12in a 24hr period an 2 60mg oxycontin Er 1every 12hrs now she cut me down to 120 15mg Oxycodone ir 4aday an 60 20mg oxycontin 2aday an I have not been right since in pain now an stay sick all day everyday so the high doses for so long has messed my mind an my body up an there is nothing I can do about it cause every time I try to get off the opiate's I have tried cold turkey suboxone tablets an strips 16mg of subutex a day I stay sick an have bad scary hallucinations an I tell my fiance an dad all these real life events that is going on an I find out later after getting put in the hospital takes about 2 weeks to come back to earth that everything I thought an was like living it is so life like was not even real I always have to get put back on my pain meds or go crazy an this past time I stopped an in 9days I went from 145lbs to 95lbs an would have died if I had not got back on the pain meds all it would have took was couple more days an I would not be here so I told the doctor that took over I needed to have my meds fixed back like they was for 10yrs an she said if I ask again she is taking it all away an I'm disabled since age 22 I'm now 38 an have legitimate reason to be on them from a spine doctor an pain management all from UVA in Charlottesville Virginia put me on the rest of my life so that puts me in a hell of a situation an few days back I here from the doctor an they are saying that they can prescribe medications for pain an they not sure why but the pharmacy's are refusing to fill legitimate prescriptions an the doctors said its nothing they can do about that so I hope nobody goes thru this kinda hell I'm going thru. I also thought I'd ask a doctor a question online on maybe trying medical cannabis to get off the opiate's an he replied back to me saying I'm just another junkie looking to feel high and its not true. I've never been in trouble for abusing my meds an I don't sell them. I need them for pain and I am co dependant on my meds as I guess they help some, but addict I'm not. I thought that was wrong also but to all good luck.

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jan, Good Luck with trying to get chronic pain patients organized. They have plenty of excuses as to why they, their family, friends, etc can't be vocal and visable, but that's about it. Sounding off on the internet and just contacting politicians won't do any good. It is going to worse because the laws are going to get stricter and drs are going to become more reluctant to prescribe opiates for chronic pain, especially in younger people.

What is happening now didn't come about over night. But few chronic pain patients will invest the time and energy into reading, learning and staying up to date in federal and state laws and guidelines. And a few won't change anything.

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Dustyrose, there is a FDA Guideline that states a patient shouldn't take more than 120 mg Morphine/120 mg Morphine Equivelent Daily. When a patient is terminal, the guidelines and laws don't apply.

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Dustyrose, you said your friend is terminal. When a patient is terminal the things that apply to patients that aren't terminal Do Not apply to them. If your friend was having the mass in her brain monitored and she was having severe pain, she might have her pain managed. If the mass in her brain was serious, a dr would be monitoring it. I can understand why the ER responds the way they do to her.

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