Ketamine For Depression? (Page 4)

It was recommended by the members of a separate thread that one be started that directly relates to ketamine and it's use to treat depression.

If anyone besides myself would like to discuss it's use as a treatment for depression, feel free to post your questions, answers and experiences here.

This thread is an offshoot of a related one that discussed a treatment of Scopolamine for depression.

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em-

very sorry for all that you have been thru. it's been 2+ years for me. i could not imagine dealing with this pain as long as you have. you are very strong.

the 2 doctors i have dealt with for ketamine infusions are dr. david fiefel at uc san diego and dr. randall espinoza at ucla. both of their contact info are easily found with a quick google.

i would also suggest contacting your nearest major university in arizona. see if they have a psychiatric department that may be doing ketamine infusions for depression. in the past year more and more colleges are offering this treatment.

this is all 'off-label' unfortunately. meaning your insurance will not cover it. prices here on the west coast are expensive; $600 to $1250 per treatment. if you respond the average remission seems to be 1 to 4 weeks before relapse.

i am scheduled to have an infusion this wed down in san diego. i am praying that i respond. i'll let everyone know how it goes. wish me luck!

hang-in there em.

john

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Em, if you trace back in this thread I posted a LARGE list of doctors, both psychiatrists as well as other MDs who are working with people who have seemingly intractable depression as you seem to suffer from and what I myself have suffered from.

Personally I have suffered from depressive episodes on and off throughout my life and a couple of years ago had to go through the suicide of my sister. Trust me, it was suicide of your loved one is one of the most horrific things you can experience.

Without the renewed hope that my ketamine treatments (personally I have done IV ketamine as well as intranasal) I might be in a dark, inescapable hole. But I am not. I found ketamine to help. And you can too. Go back in the tread and look at the list. You will no doubt find someone you can work with.

So, trace back in this topic. You will find the list that I posted regarding the doctors working with ketamine treatments for depression from across the USA. When I went for my last vist to Dr. Sajben in San Diego (yes, a "pain doctor" who has been a great help to me, a person in Los Angeles who suffers from depression) I met a man in the waiting room who traveled all the way from North Carolina to see her for his seemingly intractable depression. He told me how thankful he was for Dr. Sajben who has helped him turn his life around.

Also, do yourself a favor and take a look at the very beginning of this tread and look at the link to the scopolamine thread. I was the person who started this discussion when I was asked to create a new one when the discussion regarding scopolamine started to take a new direction towards the discussion of ketamine.

On the scopolamine thread (which again is linked to at the top of this thread) you can read about my story as well as many others who are going through similar depths of depression that might be similar to what you might be going through. Perhaps you might find some solace in our shared experiences.

Look at the list of doctors I mention towards the top of this discussion topic. A google search might even bring you more who might be practicing in your area. And again, please take a look at the scopolamine discussion. It might help to give you perspective.

Do seek help. It is out there. I know. My experience is that although I am not "cured" of my depression, it no longer has me in a strangle hold. I can actually break it's grip and experience something close to normalcy.

With a bit of research and some effort, your experience might even exceed mine. And that is what I wish for you, light and beauty.

All the best,

Michael

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Hello,
It is actually quite good. I feel much better. It's quite amazing how fast change came. I do not feel completely NEW person, but rather myself again. Hope it will stay. I'm so glad that I've found Dr. Fruitman and now when I see it really works I can recommend him to other sufferers.

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Thanks. The only list I could find was a list of pain doctors (identical to a list from another site) that provide ketamine to patients suffering from RSD and CRPS. Although I noticed that at least one of the doctors on this list, Nancy Sajben, does provide treatment for depression - I contacted several other providers, and they do not treat depression patients. Is there another list, specifically with doctors that offer Ketamine for depression, that I am missing?

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EM
I agree, that's a list of Doctors using ketamine for pain treatment, not depression. I saw it on the other site as well.

From what I've seen, Dr Espinoza at UCLA, the UCSD guy, and Dr Fruitman in NY are the only options for depression.

I saw Dr Sajben and tried the nasal ketamine but it did nothing for me.

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Hope I am allowed to post this - this is the contact information I have for the only doctors I've been able to find that offer IV Ketamine for depression (not sure if this information is up to date, but about to start calling). Hope I don't get in trouble for posting.

Steven Levine, MD
609-955-4948
[email protected]
1 Palmer Square E, Princeton, NJ 08542

David Feifel, M.D., Ph.D.
Professor, Department of Psychiatry
University of California, San Diego
200 W. Arbor Drive, San Diego, CA 92103-8218
Phone: (619)543-2827
FAX: (619) 543-3738
Email: [email protected]

Dr. Thomas Leverone
ketaminetherapy.com
[email protected]
Center for Ambulatory Surgical Treatment (CAST)
1090 Glendon Avenue
Los Angeles, CA 90024
310-209-6500

Dr. Randall Espinoza
300 UCLA Medical Plaza Suite 2420
Los Angeles, CA 90095
(800) 825-9989
310-206-1544
(310) 825-0867
uclahealth.org/RandallEspinoza
[email protected]

Edward Fruitman, MD
Trifecta Health Medical Center
115 Broadway, Suite1300
New York, NY 10006
Tel: (212) 233-2830
Fax: (888) 348-5193
trifectahealthnyc.com/our-services/depression/

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Gerry,

At first I thought the Ketamine was doing nothing for me but over time I'm thinking that it helps little by little with every dosage. I'm beginning to feel much better and have not had a depressive episode since being on the intranasal Ketamine and Naltrexone, both prescribed by Dr.Sajben.

I've had to take a high dose before I felt any effect. I had to reach that proverbial K-hole for it to do anything to my depression. Timing was also a factor. It worked best for me when I felt a depressive episode coming on, when negative thoughts would flood my mind.

Though it's been helping with the depression, it does little for my energy. I'm still dealing with low energy.

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The Mayo Clinic in AZ is currently recruiting participants who suffer from Treatment Resistant (Refractory) Depression for a study of the effectiveness of ECT therapy using (guess what...) KETAMINE as the pre-ECT anesthetic.
Of course the study therapy is free and some select participants may be reimbursed for travel, etc.

I'm sure the Ketamine anesthetic pre-ECT will show a marked rate of remission/symptom improvement over the comparative std. anesthetic/ECT combo.
Why not leave out the ECT, and just do a Ketamine trial? Oh, right... $$$

While I will not consider ECT therapy, even after my 23 years of unsuccessful treatment for Refractory MDD, this study may be just what someone could really benefit from.
I agree with Em that Mental Health Care in AZ is horrid, having lived in the state my entire life.
It's a shame there aren't more progressive PsyDocs/MDs in the state.

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I would love to find an open Ketamine study, but don't want to do ECT. I've already done ECT and found it a horrible experience, with no remission in my depression. It's incredibly frustrating to know that there is a possible treatment out there but that it's not available if you don't have thousands of dollars! Please let me know if you hear of anything else. I contacted all the Ketamine studies listed on NIH, but no luck so far. There is a Riluzole study in Houston still open (their Ketamine study is closed).

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Does anyone know what experimental medication is being used in the Marigold Study in San Diego? It mentions - it's apparently a pill by Roche. The advertise it as "modulating the receptors of glutamate".

marigoldstudy.com/index.htm

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This ketamine study is recruiting in many cities:

A Study to Assess the Effect and Safety of AZD6765 in Patients With Major Depressive Disorder

Clinicaltrials.gov Identifier: NCT01482221

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Is AZD6765 Ketamine?

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I am wondering this as usually in Ketamine trials they use Midazolam, or Versed, as the "placebo" - because the subject will know if they are getting saline solution in their IV (versus Ketamine). But in this study, the placebo is saline. I will look into it anyway. Please let me know if you have further details! Thanks!

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Ive had MDD for 20 years, 6 without any remission. No docs in AZ so I had to apply to a study in Bethesda MD.

Not sure if I'll get in but if not no more drugs left to try and spent everything I save for retirement on wasteful meds, docs & treatments. Ketamine is my last hope. If I can't find a local doc or get in the study, I'm done with the suffering.
I've literally tried everything medical and natural. Some people just get bad DNA.

No family or friends/support has made it worse. Why can't I find a doc in AZ that uses it for severe MDD and not only pain??

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I passed the screening for this but decided not to do it yet. The doctor told me it's basically the same as ketamine.

AZD6765 is an NMDA antagonist (* source - neurotransmitter.net slash new drugs)

Ketamine is also an NMDA antagonist. Here's an excerpt from an article about some research at Yale:


"So Duman and colleagues decided to investigate the effect of ketamine on the brain to see if it might reveal suitable targets for other safer and easier to adminster drugs.

" ... the mechanisms underlying this action of ketamine [a glutamate N-methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) receptor antagonist] have not been identified," they wrote.

They found that ketamine acts on a pathway that controls the formation of new synaptic links between neurons, encouraging synaptogenesis; they wrote that they observed:

" ... increased synaptic signaling proteins and increased number and function of new spine synapses in the prefrontal cortex of rats."

Moreover, they found that a critical point on the pathway, involving the enzyme mTOR, controls production of proteins needed to form the new synapses.

The researchers concluded that:
"Our results demonstrate that these effects of ketamine are opposite to the synaptic deficits that result from exposure to stress and could contribute to the fast antidepressant actions of ketamine." "

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Just a disclaimer, I don't condone the use of any prescription or experimental chemicals without the supervision of a trained medical specialist. That being said...

There is a grey market chemical that I found while researching Ketamine. It's called Methoxetamine (MXE). It's a derivative of Ketamine that may have the same antidepressant effects as K. I even went so far as to inquired about it from a chemical supplier in China. I never got ahold of any nor have I tried it. I just wanted you to be aware of it's existence.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methoxetamine

There is also anecdotal evidence of it's antidepressant efficacy out there.

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Dextromethorphan (yes, OTC "Tussin" or "DXM") as a potential rapid acting anti-depressant:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21367535

An interesting read. Is a dissociative at higher doses - like Ketamine, can have serious dose-dependent side effects a like Ketamine, acts on NMDA (among other systems) - like Ketamine, and can immediately lessen or eliminate depression symptoms - like Ketamine.

By no means am I in favor of anyone buying a bottle of DXM containing cough preparation from the local market and self-dosing. As well, OTC cough preparations typically contain 1 or more ingredient in addition to DXM, which very well could pose another hazard to self-dosing.

I just wanted to post an interesting tidbit, as Ketamine isn't the only drug that has such immediate anti-depressant effects (not to mention it's other special effects like increasing neuro-plasticity, etc.)

Another to check out (while it's still legal "for research use only" is Methoxetamine "MXE". Seems to have all the benefits of Ketamine without Ketamine's noted effect on the bladder.
Methoxetamine is a "designer drug" based exactly on Ketamine's structure with one tweak, which seemed to eliminate the bladder effect. While MXE is currently deemed a party-drug (like Ketamine was/has been for so long), Methoxetamine deserves open-minded research, in my humble opinion.

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Does anyone want to enter this study with me and share the transportation and housing costs while we are there? Not sure if I can even get in, but I am working on it!

youtu.be/_PewsbwZCiA

It's a Ketamine study in NYC at Columbia with Dr. John Mann, and it sounds promising!

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I just found out about this Ketamine study in NY - at Columbia. It doesn't offer housing, so I'd love to be able to room with other people in the study to save money. I'm in the process of applying. The recruitment is a video. There are two studies going on. They include the Ketamine infusion and follow up medication. These are the YouTube URLs for the two recruiting videos by Dr. Mann.

youtu.be/LL87PyXKwCg

youtu.be/_PewsbwZCiA

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Okay. I am desperate. I am on Medicare and SSDI - so I get $1042 to live on. It is not enough to pay $1000+ per Ketamine treatment, unless I live on the street, stop eating, and stop paying my bills. I have a fundraiser to either afford the San Diego treatments, or afford transportation and cheap housing in NY for the Columbia Study. Please pass this on to everyone you know!

indiegogo.com/projects/190906?a=892391

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