Ketamine For Depression? (Page 16)

It was recommended by the members of a separate thread that one be started that directly relates to ketamine and it's use to treat depression.

If anyone besides myself would like to discuss it's use as a treatment for depression, feel free to post your questions, answers and experiences here.

This thread is an offshoot of a related one that discussed a treatment of Scopolamine for depression.

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@Brian No one knows yet, the finalized protocols are not due out till later this month. As with any nasal delivery, the dosages will be more variable than with IV or IM. As a note, IV will typically be most consistent, then IM then IN simply because of the intervening factors.

Ketamine has a very good success rate for acute cases, once a condition gets to the refractory stage the results are more ambiguous, but ketamine has shown excellent short term results even in refractory cases.

One of the biggest questions is going to be how the DEA looks at things. In Georgia and Florida the DEA is cracking down hard on prescribing doctors. 64 have lost their licenses or been forced to retire in the last 18 months in my little area alone. My local pharmacy is currently under intense scrutiny because someone was passing illegitimate scripts and a tech was knowingly processing them.

What really determines the success of something like ketamine is 2 fold:
The first issue is what is the cause of the depression?
Is it primary or secondary?
Is it originally Psychological or is it Psychiatric
Is it the result of 1 Neurotransmitter being out of balance, 2, 3, 4, 5?
Is it due to stress induced Glia cell damage?
Is it due to immune response?
Is it due to inflammation?
etc etc.

Your doctor can help you determine the above answer, if they do not think some of the above even exist, and you have had depression for more than 2-3 years, find someone who is willing to look down other avenues. Different treatments work best for different causes.

The second issue is your own personal biology and genetics.
If you are Caucasian (as I have stated before I mention caucasians simply because though I am a mutt [African, Ashkenazi, Amerind and Caucasian] but primarily Caucasian I am aware of the stats that affect me personally) you have a 1 in 5 chance of having a difference in a group of enzymes known as CYP450 which will skew your metabolism of many medications that affect neurotransmitters. For example, if your liver cannot produce CYP450 2D6 then amitriptyline (a tricyclic antidepressant) for example will not work for you.

Regarding Ketamine specifically, it looks like if you have primary depression that is Psychiatric with a root cause of stress induced Glia cell damage then Ketamine is the way to go. If not, it may or may not be effective long term.

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@Brian.... give us an update, please!

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I spoke with Depression Center in Scottsdale (about 45 minutes from the airport) and I thought I'd post the information I have.

Infusions are $750 each, with generous rebates after a certain number of treatments. Evaluations are done on Monday's and Wednesday's. Infusions are done on Mon-Wed-Fri. There is no wait. I could have an appointment on Monday if I call tomorrow, for example.

Roundtrip airfare to Pheonix is roughly $200 from Chicago. I am serously thinking about scheduling. I just can't be away from home for very long so that limits me to two treatments per trip.

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@citygirl I suspect you would be better off finding a 3 week period and following the established protocols. If cost is a major factor, why not investigate the Dr. in NY offering treatment for $250?

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@Keller... thank you for the feedback. I agree with you but am feeling desperate, as I am sure you can understand. That option is best left for the summer months since I am a single mom.

I am developing a plan of attck. If the Glyx-13 mentioned earlier is still open in Chicago, that will be my first choice.

I am looking at the oft mentioned "Dr. Fanelli of East Chicago, IN" and either their are two docs with the same name, or the guy practices a few minutes from me. However, almost everything I have read about him is very bad. I will ask around about him.

I have considered the NYC option at $250 per, but it is IV. I am less hopeful about that but still tossing it around.

I am prepared to ask my psychiatrist for a Rx for the nasal version next week, It will be interesting.

I am playing phone tag with the ketamine trial in St. Louis (100 hour vs, 40 hours of infusion over 5 days,) That is doable.

So, a good night's sleep and lots of phone calls in the am.

I have enjoyed your posts.

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@CityGirl, I understand. Heck I have considered going to Mexico or India.

You mention IV being an issue, but it is lower cost than what you are saying in AZ. Is the Doc in AZ doing IV, IM, IN or Oral? IV is still the dominant standard for delivery, IN is preferred by some (such as myself) because of cost and mobility. I have not seen any studies on IM, and my understanding is that O isn't even on the table for depression treatment.

Regardless, please report back in. I know we are all interested and I spoke to someone at the Muscadine Foundation last week, and they are following the thread too with an eye towards assistance once they get IRS approval.

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@keller... I am sorry. The AZ clinic is IV. The NYC clinic at $250 isn't IV. Typo on my part.

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I am not familiar with the muscadine foundation. As in grapes?

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@CityGirl The Muscadine Foundation is a Charity based out of Texas working on building up a support system for people needing treatment with Phase 2 clinical trials that do not meet the strict trial criteria and could return to work if treated. Basically they are trying to help people like us. Last I saw they were working on getting 501(c3) status so they could take donations to provide assistance.

More info as it becomes available

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UPDATE: The Chicago GLXY-13 study runs up to 17 weeks and entails weekly INJECTIONS. I am weaning off a couple medications in preparation for the initial medical review. I was hoping for infusions but staying local will be less intrusive right now. I am feeling a bit hopeful :-)

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@CityGirl
Do you have a link to the study, or even better possibly a copy of the protocol?

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I do have a copy. Is there a way to share it here?

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@CityGirl You could scan it to something like Google Drive or DropBox then share it.

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GLXY-13 study protocol

docs.google.com/file/d/VUVLSwU2s/edit

Let me know if that works.

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@CityGirl, Perfect thanks!

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I finally started reading that protocol last night. It does use an IV delivery mechanism. My Pysc doc is good with it but suggests I consider the St.Louis 5 day study first since I would get the study drug for certain. I am waiting to hear if the last spot in St, Louis has been filled.

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John
Thanks for sharing you experience with IV Ket, I'm on AntiDep for long time, and there is no improvement. any recommendation to go from here

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@Keller, it seems everyone on this forum is desperate to find way to cure our Depression, I m on SSRI but no good result,
can you give us some summery what others options we have at this time,
Thanks

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For help, please, please see this article on Ketamine---
theepochtimes.com/n3/84546-treating-depression-with-ketamine-infusions/?photo=2

You could save someone's life- he saved mine.

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@sue How is this going to save lives? If someone is here it is because they are already looking at ketamine as a treatment option. Spamming links doesn't add anything to the conversation. Further, the information presented is out of date/ incorrect with regards to cost, treatment numbers and efficacy. Lastly it treats (or rather does not even examine) the underlying differences at all. It presents a single possible mechanism as the origin in a fluff piece designed to promote a particular treatment.

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