Hydrocodone Ip 115 (Top voted first)

My pharmacy just switched to the Avkare brand of Norco 7.5. The imprint on it is IP 115. I feel like these do not work at all for me. I would like to know if anyone else that are on these or ever have been on them can let me know how it works/worked for them.

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You are definitely not imagining this nor are you "growing tolerant" of your med. The problem you have, like almost everyone on pain meds has had in the last year or two, is the DEA / FDA letting them sneak in unstudied clinical trials on these "anti-abuse" additives, and laws that govern quality all at the same time. I will briefly explain; I am a masters level chemical engineer with a minor in biochemistry and polymers so this is all factual information based on over a year of personal research and lab tests. If you would like sources, or to see some of the pictures/results of my tests on these pills please ask; I think people need to know the real problem.

First off, generics are now allowed to vary by 20% coming in with the schedule-II change, it was more readily taken advantage of by the greedy pharma companies like norco. They bought out many smaller companies, a study done by a team at Vanderbilt in 2016 found on average the norco 10mg pills contained only 8.4 mg of hydro (within 20% being above 8). Does anyone else feel ripped off yet? Isn't a 20% tolerance extreme when it governs a medication? Why only pain meds? A 20% deviation in BP med or insulin could be deadly, why not deviate above as well? If you only take approx 8 in a 10, every 4 pills made the savings, makes a 5th for free. Scale this up to nationwide sales, that's millions more for them at our expense. If you get 60 pills, in reality you're only getting roughly 48 10mg equivalents; you were just shorted 18% of your prescription.

Next: hydro is salted with bitartrate, where 98% of other meds are simple hydrochloride salts. This matters because HCl is very little weight added, where bitartrate is a 4 carbon, di-carbonyl-di-hydroxyl sugar acid. In simple terms, the hcl is less than 35 g, but the sugar acid with its 6 oxygens and large structure weighs in at 149 g. This is a THIRD of the hydro weight, so saying 10 mg of hydrocodone bitartrate is actually saying 3.4g bitar and 6.6g hydro. Now apply this to the already lessened generic of 8.4, we're now at 5.6 mg hydrocodone in a "10" mg pill....now do you feel shorted? That's almost half!

Last and most important is the new anti-abuse additives. It used to be just hydrocodone, acetaminophen, and a bit of necessary but harmless fillers like silicon dioxide, possibly a touch of starch (starch is a complex sugar such as in potatoes) which is digestible. Now, up to 8 man-made polymers are added to prevent "abuse". That's great... In a way...laws cant outlaw people from making bad decisions. For the ones still at it, these new water-soluble plastics are completely unable to be broken down by our bodies and will prove MUCH more fatal in the blood than the act alone prior to this act to "save the abusers". PEO is in many pills now, PE (polyethylene) is the plastic coke bottles are made of. Povidone and crospovidone are in most and will be in all by 2019 if no one objects. These are pretty, shortened names for some nasty synthetic polymers designed specifically not to release the med into a water solution preventing inj... They dont tell you this also means that it prevents proper absorption, not to mention "cross-linked polyvinylpyrrolodone" (the real name of crospovidone doesnt sound as harmless) is a rubberized form of povidone (polyvinylpyrrolidone) and is present along with the water-soluble un-rubberized form, along with modified cellulose (hypermellose), stearic acid (nice way of saying soap), and several others.

I've already written much too much, but I separated, purified, and analyzed most of these polymers myself. The results were horrifying. Piles of goo resembling elmer's glue, sticky slimy substances that would be extremely difficult to pass through the gut, unsoluble crospov. ball of slimy rubber, glassy-brittle plastic crystals of PEO, ALL of which are completely unable to be processed by our bodies and block absorption. I have pictures and great in-depth detail of this matter if anyone cares to learn more. If just one person hears the truth, all my dedicated time was worth it. I hope this clarified some of your concern. Bottom line, this control has gotten out of hand when our meds are cut and health patients are actually put at risk for some companies to make a little extra money.

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Re: Chad K (# 9)

Hi Chad,

I would like to see your research if possible please. Your research was phenomenal and I would love to read more.

Lisa

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Re: Chad K (# 9)

I'm very interested in your work on this subject and would like to see and read more, if possible.

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Re: Chad K (# 9)

Holy crap, who are they helping doing this? I can tell from taking pain meds for a few yrs due to back problems that the hydrocodone doesn't work as well as it used to and something has changed with the meds.

I've been told it's because the body builds tolerance, bla, bla, bla.....But this info proves it's the meds that have changed for the worse.

What can us that take these meds for relief do about it and stop these pharmacy companies and the dea or whomever is letting this happen?

It's us the ones who go to the dr and play by the rules who are getting screwed. All because the street dope heads.... it makes me sick and disgusted.

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Thank you Chad K (#9) for your detailed comment. Had no idea there could be such variation in prescribed medications. Really makes me angry - I wouldn't be taking this stuff if I wasn't in pain! Now in addition to still being in pain because this med is ineffective, I'm having the side effects of nausea and headache!

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Hi Maria, I was also taking the same madication as you and was given the IP 115 this time around. I agree that it just doesn't seem to work as good on the pain, not sure what the difference is since the bottle reads the same dosage as my last prescription. I kind of thought it was a mind over matter thing for me since it's a different looking pill then I read your statement, just wondering how you are doing now with them since it's been a while.?

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Re: Chad K (# 9)

Can you send me more info so I can fight with my pharmacy. I am in so much pain just because of the switch.

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Re: Chad K (# 9)

Hi Chad,
I am seriously ready for you to share anything and everything you have please!! This is absolutely appalling to learn of the deception!!!

God Bless!!
Cindy

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Re: Julie (# 4)
Pharmacists are getting involved in a person’s treatment plan without having any information on WHY the patient was prescribed a certain medication, without having any of the patients medical records, and last, but not least they are PHARMACISTS—- NOT DOCTORS. While they do have a pharmacy degree they are NOT Doctors. I do not know for sure how to stop these Pharmacists from practicing medicine but that is what many are doing. Just, FYI many of the pain medications have been reformulated after this so called “opioid crisis”. I have been informed that not only do these manufacturers get away with putting in up to 20% less active ingredient in a pill they have also reengineered the medication to have 70% less Oxytocin in the pill. They thought that by reducing the oxytocin in the medication that it would make it less addictive but the problem is reducing the oxytocin also made the medicine almost worthless as a pain reliever. It is less addictive with less oxytocin but it is also way less effective. They engineered the pain relief out of these pain pills which is why many are prescribed them in the first place.

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These pills are garbage! They make you sick to your syomach!

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at one point n time i had been on them n several months i did receive the IP brand n YES THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN THE MEDICATION, you will be told you will get use to it dont let anyone fool you, cause if your in pain n was use to taking the 7.5's and they were working its like going from 7.5's back down to the 5mg. All i can say before you get your script filled is ASK THE PHARMACIST, it can't hurt n if your state is like mine (KENTUCKY) you have to go to ONE PHARMACY, so you will have to call your dr.'s office an tell them you have to go to a different PHARMACY, or they will accuse you of PHARMACY JUMPING, SWAPPING, or what ever they call it, in other words (((WE ARE GETTING TO WHERE WE HAVE OR ARE GETTING TO WHERE WE ARE BEING ACCUSED OF SOMETHING THAT MOST OF US ARENT DOING.)))
hope i was a lil help to ya...

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Re: Chad K (# 9)

Thank you so much for your post. I would like any more info you would be willing to share. I work for a Family doctor. He has several patients with chronic pain. We hear the complaints all the time about the generic meds.

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Re: cliff j (# 36)

You are so right Cliff!! Im glad Im not the only one who has ecperienced both of these!! The pain meds these days dont work!! What gives any corporation the right to change our medications!!?? THEY ARE NOT DOCTORS EITHER ????????

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Re: Maria (# 3)

Julie (# 4) —To all of you complaining about your pain medications aside from the fact that by law manufacturers have been allowed to lower the active ingredients by 20% recently, to try and reduce the addictive qualities they have reduced the oxytocin’s by 70%. This has made the medications almost worthless. While trying to reduce the substance that they believed reduced addiction they, at the same time, made the medications almost worthless. Many of the manufacturers are being sued by people and States that have bottomless pockets financially and they simply want to drive these manufacturers into bankruptcy and hopefully out of business. All the while people with inoperable conditions and use their pain medications responsibly are caught in the middle.

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Re: Verwon (# 1)

Very informative! Never knew of the Hatch-Waxmen Act of 1984! Wow, this sure opens up a can of worms & answers the question we are all having as we suffer new miserable side effects of especially generic brand pain meds. Its been obvious the drastic sudden change of formulation ie; percocet oxycodone & hydrocodone! This Act from 1984 must be given the “hachett” as we are all suffering & getting sick from bogus fillers & less active ingredients that are allowed by FDA to assist Big Pharma in making more $$ & meanwhile disregarding the health/well-being of the patient!

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Re: ThunderHeart (# 37)
The issue of the manufacturers changing the formulation of the pills is that they are being cheered on by BOTH parties in Congress and allowed to have a free hand in whatever they do as long as they do not kill people instantly. Never mind the long term. NO, manufacturers are NOT Doctors but if you are given a free hand to do whatever you want and the people that are supposed to monitor you to be sure you are manufacturing an EFFECTIVE drug just look the other way then you will just manufacture any piece of crap pill because the only ones who suffer from your transgressions are the long term chronic pain sufferers. Since they cannot get to the real culprits which are the street drug addicts then they need to take their problems out on the ones they can get their hands on which is the chronic pain sufferers that get their medications legally through scripts and have never abused them.

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Re: Mejane (# 57)

The people who want to come down on the so called "opioid abuse" cannot get the REAL street addicts so it is just easier to attack the Chronic Pain patients and that way they can say "Look! We are doing something". Actually they are prosecuting the innocent because they cannot get the real culprits.

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Re: cliff j (# 63)

You have that right Cliff!!

I cant start a forum so I hope you dont mind if I jump in here. I WILL be reporting this to the FDA tomorrow. AMNEAL COMPANY drugs should NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE UNITED STATES!! Why they are allowed to dump their lousy medicines to our pharmacies is beyond me. Their drugs are pure s***!! And they know it while laughing all the way to the bank at how stupid the U.S. is in not having the FDA monitor the making of medicine. These are my experiences with Amneal made medicines- In New Mexico I had a prescription for hydrocodone. I went to a pharmacy near my home. I got the Ambeal IP s***. I noticed right away it DID NOT RELIEVE MY PAIN. But i had severe reactions that put me in the ER. Vomiting, diarrhea, itching, sneezing headache, cold sweats. I took that crap back to the pharmacy. They could not take it. Went to my doc for a new script and got my medicine from Smiths. No problem with the Mallinckrodt, even though it is weak. 2nd experience with Amneal s***- I picked up xanax from a Walgreens in Reno. Xanax normally gets me out of panic attacks with no side effects. Once again I had severe reactions. It DID NOT WORK. It made me get muscle spasms and twitches. Along with itching and more panicky feelings. I looked at the manufacturer and sure enough it was Amneal s*** again. We back to doc and got a new script and went back to Smiths. 3rd event- tonight I broke open a gabapentin capsule. I powder my medicines. The capsule was empty. Read the label and it is made by Amneal. No surprise.
Walgreens is guilty of dispensing Amneal products. I found that out the hard way. I raised a stink with them and told them to stop dispensing this garbage!! Amneal is pure crap!! This company needs to be stopped from selling its s*** medicine here. It is made in India. The most polluted and dirty countries. I'm contacting the FDA once again. Beware people. Ask your pharmacists before you pick up your meds who the manufacturer is and refuse it if it's made by Amneal. Get another brand. The generics the insurance companies are forcing on us these days are garbage and I am pissed!!! INSURANCE COMPANIES DID NOT GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL!! They have no right to force generic garbage on us!!

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I told the pharmacy tech that I hated these ones and she said she hears that from people a lot. They still don't work for me so if my pharmacy can't get a different brand then I will go elsewhere

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So it's the pharmacy and not the doctor that decided on this medicine? I guess I'm stuck with this crap for at least the next month right? Ugh they do not work for me and I feel so tired all the time.

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