Taking Subutex And Percocet Together (Page 29) (Top voted first)

My doctor just put me on subutex along with percocet. I've been on percocet for yrs for severe and chronic migraines. He told me to take the subutex and if it doesn't work to take a percocet. I usually take 15 mg percocet at a time. I've read some stuff online that worries me. Some people say if you take percs with subutex you'll go into withdrawals. I went through severe withdrawals with fioricet months ago and I don't want to go through that hell again. I took my first subutex about an hour ago and I still have a migraine so I want to take a perc now. Can I do that or will I get sick?

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You are correct, to many Dr. here lol...
The Doctor said you can not take Subox and opiate you will be sick, and that is why he gave me Subutex, you can take an opiate all day on it and you will not feel any of the effects of the opiate.

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Yes u can, thats why theres both subutex an suboxone. the subutex does not contain the opiate blocker called naloxone which will make u sick if u combine it with a protagonist opiate.

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Amy I want to come off the 30s I have Subutex do I wait until the opiates are out or can I start Subutex with the perks or will I go right into withdrawal I like your quote it made me laugh

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I have always been told that narcotics or opoids actually caused migraines..i have been hospitalized several times and given dilaudid which is the hydromorphon that is mentioned in another reply and every time ive gotten migraines and ive also taken subutex and gotten migraines and my dr had mevon fiorcet for a long time which has always worked for me but it quit and my new dr put me on a med called maxalt. Its non narcotic or barbiturate. Which is what the main ingredient in fiorcet butalbital is,a barbituate.

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MOLLY APPLECAKES: People don't realize that Buprenorphine is a partial agonist/partial antagonist opioid. It is the ANTAGONIST part that sends you into withdrawal. Naloxone is also an opioid antagonist. They think as long as there is no Naloxone in the Subs, they are ok. NOPE. Bupe ITSELF will throw you into withdrawals. Now as you said, you could probably do 2, 4, even 8 mgs of Subutex and be ok. (there are obviously a lot of variables there) but any more than that, and you are gambling. I PERSONALLY went through hardcore Precipitated Withdrawals from taking 20mgs of Subutex too soon after opiates. Yet I am being told by people like KIKI that what I went through "just isn't possible".....um....yeah. So many people on here who have no idea what they are talking about, posting things as if they are the World's Foremost Authority. Every time I read another "authority" talking about how it "isn't possible" for Subutex to send someone into withdrawals, and I remember what I went through, I can only shake my head.

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ENVI: I have to say that what you wrote has to be the biggest load of mis-information I have read on here in a LONG time. Please do some more research before posting. Unbelievable.

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SWEETPEA: Holy crap, calm down!! I am not saying I have "all the answers" whatsoever. I am actually AGREEING with you, and am merely explaining (to ANYONE on here, not solely to YOU) how these things work. While you may know how they work, I come across people on here DAILY who actually do not. I never once said you were "wrong" or "mistaken", and you seem to want to read a whole TON of your own insanity into what I said! Jeez, maybe you should look into some psych meds next or some sedatives or something. Wow, just.....wow. Relax already!!

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SWEETPEA: Right. People who say things like "there is no way you can have withdrawals as long as you take Subutex" are indeed, wrong. These are not people who are posting their "experience", these are people who read about Naloxone, but know nothing about Buprenorphine itself. They think that if there is no Naloxone in there, that they are safe. They are, point black, giving bad and downright dangerous advice. You were posting your experience, and I was merely stating WHY you most likely had that experience. I never once said you were "wrong".

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JOHNNY: Yet again, we have another authority on here dispensing bad advice. I just got through sitting up with someone who with into STRAIGHT UP, HARDCORE PRECIPITATED WITHDRAWALS. Guess what, genius? They took SUBUTEX too soon after full-agonist opioids, NOT SUBOXONE. The Naloxone? Makes NO difference. It is ONLY in Suboxone to keep people from taking it intravenously. This person was SIX DAYS off of methadone and STILL went into a really bad rattle. From SUBUTEX. Geez, I wish you *****s who know NOTHING about the drugs you take would stay the heck off of here.

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DAVID: Thank you David. Naloxone is indeed an opioid antagonist ("blocker" for lack of a more scientific description) but Naloxone also has a very low bioavailability when done under the tongue (sublingually) meaning about 10 percent or less of it will even get into your system. Naloxone is given INTRAVENOUSLY to users who are overdosing, which means 100 percent bioavailability. Bioavailability is how much of the drug is used by the body versus how much is wasted. For example, pills taken orally have a much less bioavailability than things administered intravenously, which go directly into the bloodstream. So the bioavailability of intravenous drugs is 100%.

It is THE BUPRENORPHINE ITSELF that throws you into precipitated withdrawals in Subutex/Suboxone, NOT the Naloxone. If I had a nickel for every misinformed "expert" on just this forum who have it wrong, I could have retired long ago. And I don't care if you, Pharma dude, ARE a pharmacist. You won't be the first pharmacist who is misinformed about this drug, and you won't, unfortunately, be the last. Hell, I've come across DOCTORS who have it wrong. As stated earlier, I personally went through it years ago, and just recently watched someone else go through it with SUBUTEX, because they took it too soon after methadone. NO NALOXONE. This person's DOCTOR told them to wait 12 hours after methadone, and also stated that since it was only SUBUTEX, that he would be ok. THIS WAS A LICENSED PHYSICIAN!!! (who BTW, is now under investigation and will most likely have his Schedule II license pulled). So someone coming on here saying "well, I'm a pharmacist, blah blah..." means nothing to me. I'm done. All you "experts" can think what you want. I know the FACTS.

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KIMM86: Subutex and Suboxone are the same drug, as the Naloxone in the Suboxone isn't really absorbed by the body when taken sublingually. You are just plain WRONG, and since you are dispensing bad and completely incorrect advice, maybe you should just stay off of here. There is enough bad info on here without you adding to it. Go do some research before spouting nonsense, and you will see how WRONG you actually are. EVERYTHING I wrote is correct, true information. I am involved in medical research and work with the leading addiction specialist in my state. It is YOU who are "confused", not us. You are so confused, it's scary.

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I say bs. Withdrawals? I take subutex, oxycontin, oxycodone and whatever else and never have I experienced withdrawals...ever. y'all are way off. Maybe you won't feel the full effects of the oxys but withdrawals? Nah! Good luck though.

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AARON: You will most likely feel them if it has been that long. Just remember not to start up the Subs too soon AFTER the opioids. When I was still "cheating", I would feel the opioids after about 24 to 28 hours of being off the Bupe.

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21CHAPKA: Here we go again. You are wrong. The naloxone in Suboxone does NEXT TO NOTHING unless it is injected. The bioavailability of Naloxone when taken sublingually is less than 10%. So the Naloxone ISN'T the problem.

It is the BUPRENORPHINE ITSELF that "throws you into withdrawal", NOT the Naloxone. Once more (I've only posted this like 50 times) IT IS THE BUPE ITSELF that causes withdrawal. The only reason that Naloxone is in Suboxone is to keep people from administering it intravenously. Holy crap, I am so tired of seeing people who have NO CLUE of what they are putting into their bodies, dispensing bad advice and mis-information on here. "21Chapka"? You are just plain wrong, and I sincerely hope NO ONE takes your bad advice. Sorry to come off harsh, but you clearly don't understand how this drug works. The Bupe itself is throwing you into withdrawal. That's what it is SUPPOSED to do.

So one more time; Suboxone AND Subutex will put you into withdrawals, because it is the BUPRENORPHINE ITSELF that does it, NOT THE NALOXONE. When taken sublingually (under the tongue) Naloxone is BARELY bioavailable, meaning that very little of it will get into your system. It is ONLY in Suboxone to keep people from intravenous use. When you inj. things, they are 100% bioavailable because they are being put DIRECTLY into your bloodstream.

Please people, if you don't know what you are talking about, refrain from dispensing "advice". Thanks.

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KKH is absolutely correct. Buprenorphine (without Naloxone) CAN cause precipitated withdrawal. The proof can be found in the links below. Hopefully the information herein will help put an end to this unneccesary debate:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2094723

The following excerpt was quoted from The National Alliance of Advocates for Buprenorphine Treatment:

"It is a common misconception that the Naloxone in Suboxone initiates precipitated withdrawal. This is false. The Naloxone can only initiate precipitated withdrawal if IV'ed into a person tolerant to opioids. Taken sublingually the Naloxone has virtually no effect."

Source: naabt.org/faq

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SASSYGIRL: Yes, you took a tiny bit of Percocet, and then hours later, you took a tiny bit of Subutex. So it makes sense that you would be fine.

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MICHAEL: Starting off on either Subutex OR Suboxone is the same thing. I walked into the doctors office and was given Suboxone the same day with no problems. Neither drug is going to put you into "rapid detox", unless you take them too soon after full-agonist opioids like vicodin or methadone. Then EITHER DRUG will be a problem, because it is the BUPE that can be the problem, NOT the Naloxone. The Naloxone is only in there to keep people from administering the Bupe intravenously, as it is BARELY absorbed when taken under the tongue. Whether the Naloxone is in there or not really doesn't matter unless you are trying to inj. it.

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if you take the percocet a while AFTER the sub, it shouldn't send you into wd. But that being said, you probably won't feel the effects of the percocet. If you do feel it, it will be greatly diminished.

Now if you did the other way around, took the percocet first and then the sub, then it could send you into precipitated withdrawal. The bupe in the subutex would literally rip out the percocet molecules from your opioid receptors and replace it with its own. (This is because of its high binding affinity). It wants to bind to that opioid receptor so strongly that it'll displace whatever's currently there.

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REAL: Then YOU are some sort of modern medical miracle and should be studied by medical researchers, because that is the most incredible story I have EVER heard in all the years I have been an addict, been WORKING with addicts, and been doing research. I doubt it highly. 20 pills a day with only two strips. Right.

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There are plenty of variables involved and to consider, so it's not an absolute and you're soooooo wrong. I've done both directions. Never gotten sick either time. You really shouldn't mislead people As you obviously have no idea what you're talking about

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