Taking Subutex And Percocet Together (Page 19)

My doctor just put me on subutex along with percocet. I've been on percocet for yrs for severe and chronic migraines. He told me to take the subutex and if it doesn't work to take a percocet. I usually take 15 mg percocet at a time. I've read some stuff online that worries me. Some people say if you take percs with subutex you'll go into withdrawals. I went through severe withdrawals with fioricet months ago and I don't want to go through that hell again. I took my first subutex about an hour ago and I still have a migraine so I want to take a perc now. Can I do that or will I get sick?

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You can't go into withdrawals from taking opiates with subutex. It just isn't possible, these people must be confused. You will get sick from suboxone if you take opiates with it, not subutex..Because suboxone has naloxone in it which pushes all of the opiates out of your brain receptors and subutex doesn't.

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Oxymorphone is also called Opana and they are very hard to get. Doctors don't like prescribing them because they are extremely strong and abused. The effects are also very short acting. Buprenorphine isn't strong in a way that makes you feel high.

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Your receptors can't physically hold more than 24 mg of Buprenorphine at a time so you are wasting your meds if you are taking more than three 8mg a day. Just thought I should let you know.

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Today I took 8mg of subutex after getting administered dilaudid and morphine in the hospital and having percs at home and I am not having withdrawals at all.

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MOLLY APPLECAKES: People don't realize that Buprenorphine is a partial agonist/partial antagonist opioid. It is the ANTAGONIST part that sends you into withdrawal. Naloxone is also an opioid antagonist. They think as long as there is no Naloxone in the Subs, they are ok. NOPE. Bupe ITSELF will throw you into withdrawals. Now as you said, you could probably do 2, 4, even 8 mgs of Subutex and be ok. (there are obviously a lot of variables there) but any more than that, and you are gambling. I PERSONALLY went through hardcore Precipitated Withdrawals from taking 20mgs of Subutex too soon after opiates. Yet I am being told by people like KIKI that what I went through "just isn't possible".....um....yeah. So many people on here who have no idea what they are talking about, posting things as if they are the World's Foremost Authority. Every time I read another "authority" talking about how it "isn't possible" for Subutex to send someone into withdrawals, and I remember what I went through, I can only shake my head.

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Kkh.. I'm just saying you must be confused.. maybe you were taking suboxone instead of subutex. I have been on high doses of both subutex and suboxone for years and have never experienced withdrawal from the subutex.. jeez don't get mad because someone disagrees with you.

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KIKI: I am neither "mad" nor "confused". But you are wrong. You think that Subutex has no "opiate blocker" in it? The Naloxone being the "blocker"? Buprenorphine ITSELF is also an opiate blocker. It is a partial agonist-partial antagonist opioid. The "antagonist" part is the "blocker". So the DRUG ITSELF is a "blocker", so to speak. Once more, Subutex and Naloxone are BOTH "opioid antagonists". As opposed to "full-agonist opioids", which is what Oxys, Vicodin and all the other opioids we take to relieve pain are. These are facts. It isn't about "disagreeing" with you, you are simply mistaken.

So no, I am not "confused". I am a medical researcher, and I work with the leading Addiction Specialists in my area. I am fully aware of the differences between the two. I took Suboxone for about a week when I first started on Bupe. I couldn't tolerate the Naloxone and was immediately switched to Subutex. So besides that first week, I have NEVER been on Suboxone, only Subutex. These are facts. I really wish people would do more research before declaring things "impossible", before declaring things to be "facts". I was never on a dose lower than 24 mgs of Subutex for almost 6 years (doses between 24 and 32 mgs, which is the ceiling dose) and I also used very long acting opioids at the time. I was thrown into hardcore precipitated withdrawals from taking about 20 mgs of SUBUTEX, not SUBOXONE too soon after dosing that long acting opioid. SUBUTEX ITSELF can throw you into precipitated withdrawal because SUBUTEX ITSELF is a partial antagonist opioid.

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Sorry your doctor is an i****. To take percocet and then suboxone is like wiping your ass before you s***, please excuse my language but damn that's the craziest thing I've heard out of all the posts. But anyways I wanted to let you know that it's come down to federal government regulations on pain medication due to the havoc it has wreaked in our country. So since doctors can only fill so many scripts of pain medication per month/year that they stay loyal to the patients who have been with them the longest and the rest of us get s*** on bc if they can't keep making a fortune on pain medication then they to devise another legal medication suboxone, subutex, zubsolv, etc....to make money so we have to deal with doctors just doing what they can to keep their job. So rather than educate the patient to what they're actually taking. Most doctors don't have the time (or at least they say they don't which we all know they do) to get to know their patients bc in my opinion most just simply don't care, they see it day in day out so they've become programmers. Your doctor just wanted to try and see if the suboxone would slow your cravings for percocet bc he can't prescribe you as much anymore once again due to regulations so sounds like he just wants to keep your business but doesn't give a s*** what you went through which is what he told you to do, that makes me furious. What a s*** bag, sorry you had to go through that. If you want off the percocet then wait until you start to have withdrawals and then take it accordingly. With too much you could get sick but on the right dosage you will be fine. Also remember if you are taking suboxone and then take your percocet it won't work. It will be a waste and damage to your liver for no reason. Hope that was helpful and hope you feel better. Good luck!! Oh and please find a different doctor.

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Steve, I have been on subutex for years and only subutex. I only recently started taking oxycodone with it because I am going through a miscarriage and need the extra pain management. The doctor prescribed double the dose he normally would because I have also been taking subutex. All I am trying to say is I don't get sick when I take oxy and subutex or the other way around. I never have, not even when I was just getting clean.

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STEVE: My mind is completely blown by the fact that there are doctors out there who are actually prescribing full-agonist opioids right along with a partial-antagonist opioid like Bupe. Completely mind blown. And by the fact that so many people have no idea what they are talking about, and are posting things on here as if they were medical researchers or something. Insane. But the fact that there are doctors, people who are being trusted with people's LIVES, that really are this clueless is not just insane, it is down-right SCARY.

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It must be dependent on dose then. I have often taken Subutex after regular opiates with no problem at all. I'd take from 4-8 mg of Sub soon after dosing.

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DagneyT: I think it is dose dependent as you said. 4 to 8mgs is a fairly low dose, and since there is no Naloxone in it, you are probably ok at that level. Any more than that? You are playing Russian Roulette. I was never on what would be considered a low dose of Subutex. When I was taking Subutex, I was on 28mgs+, and have gotten between 16 and 20mgs into me when the Precipitated Withdrawals happened. So obviously, with Subuxone, you have the antagonist of the Naloxone, PLUS the antagonist of the Bupe itself in there. With Subutex, it's ONLY the antagonist of the Bupe. So that's why you would be able to take a small about of Subutex without problems. Any more than 8 or 10 mgs though? I certainly wouldn't. That was ROUGH... nice user name BTW. Atlas Shrugged.

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Hello i'm new to the forum. I had back surgeries that required oxycodone and i have been taking 2 5/325 pills 2 to 3x a day, for about 4 years. When i hear about others addiction i think i'm not taking much but i can tell it has affected my personality and i want to be healthy again. I don't feel high on them but it does help my pain. I also got diagnosed with breast cancer 2 years ago and had to have a bi-lateral mastectomy. Before that i caught c-diff (antibiotic resistant bacteria) and i was sick for a year with that. On top of it my partner had cancer at the same time and he died a year ago. Just before he died my little brother OD'd, he was 40. I've lived like a hermit for the past several years. I hardly leave my apt and just function. I have a 9 year old son and i'm sure i can be better for him if i get off ALL of the meds. I also take xanax .5mg to sleep at night and i've been on that for 10 years. When i got diagnosed with cancer my oncologist put me on 450 mg of wellbutrin so i'm still taking that too.

I just found this forum and thought maybe it might help to discuss it. I only have 2 percocets left and the last time i took them was yesterday morning (took 2 5/325). I do have subs and i tried that for the first time yesterday 8mg under tongue but i guess i still had too much percocet in my body and i threw up all day long. I feel better today though i'm still in bed. I'm afraid to take another sub because i got so sick and i'm thinking i should just go cold turkey from here. I realize i have another problem with the xanax but one thing at a time. Any advice?

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SYD: Yes, you went through the dreaded "precipitated withdrawals". I would think you would be ok to take 8mgs of Subs by now.

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Sorry if this is a reply. Couldn't figure out how to pos a new comment. Boy, do I need to b**** right now!! I've posted on this thread a few times. I have been on Subutex pills, 8MG, 2-3 a day, for 3 1/2 years. Someone on here pointed out that even though the Subutex pills do not have the full Naloxone blocker that the Suboxone strips have, Buprenorphine in ITSELF is an opiate blocker!! I just went in for surgery. The surgeons were clueless about my Subutex pills, surprise surprise!! And my Subutex prescribing doctor is a DITZ!! He insisted that with zero Naloxone like the strips have, I could remain on my same dosage of Subutex pills right up until the surgery. Partial sedation (SHOULD HAVE BEEN FULL) with Dilaudid and Fentanyl IV. I took it upon myself to wean my Subutex dosage for a week. But of course, too difficult to stop completely for 72 hours. The surgeons kept saying that the hospitals' pain management team would consult with me and my Subutex doctor a week before the surgery. They never did. Well let me tell you right now, the Dilaudid and Fentanyl IV did not do their job!! There is no doubt in my mind that the Subutex pills partially block the opiate receptor sites. In fact, as the opposite has been mentioned on here (going from opiates to Subutex pills, which is what they give you inpatient for detox in opiate rehab...NOT the strips)...REHABS WAIT 72 hours after your last opiate before administering the Subutex pills. Or else you will go into precipitated and rapid withdrawal. So if the Subutex pills are enough of an opiate blocker for rehabs to wait 72 hours after your last opiate, THEN THEY ARE ENOUGH OF A BLOCKER TO MAKE OPIATES NOT WORK WHEN YOU GO IN FOR SURGERY!!! I know that docs have to take a 2-day course and exam to be certified to prescribe both the Suboxone strips and the Subutex pills. It is my thought that every ER, hospital, and surgeon in the country also need to take this course, or else the FDA should take Buprenorphine off the market in general.

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Hello molly ..sorry you had trouble ..I did to I had total hip replacement and the had to do epidural and couldnt knock me out ..wow right its crazy how clueless some drs are I suffered severely and like you my drs were supposed to confer well they did or didnt idk what I know is im not going through that again ....let others learn the hard way if they wont listen any bupe based drug can and will set off the precipitated withdrawal DO NOT USE OPIATES ON EITHER SUBOXONE OR SUBUTEX GOD BLESS AND GOOD LUCK ALL

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Thanks for your support, and sorry that you had to go through the same thing!!

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MOLLY: Yes, unfortunately you were a victim of clueless doctors. And I can't even count the number of times on this very forum that I was told I was wrong about Subutex. Even when I tell people I PERSONALLY went through Precipitated Withdrawals from Subutex. I even had one person tell me that I must have been mistaken, that I was on Suboxone rather than Subutex and didn't realize it!! As if reading a label was beyond me! But for DOCTORS to be this clueless is an absolute travesty. Just ridiculous. We trust these doctors with our LIVES, and that can be pretty scary when you think about something like what you went through. One more time, people: Subutex (Buprenorphine) is ITSELF a partial-antagonist opioid, which is the scientific term for OPIOID BLOCKER. With or without the Naloxone, Subutex can throw you into a world of hurt if taken too soon after full-agonist opioids. Got it?

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Well said said Steve that's exactly what these doctors do.

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DAGNYT: I do wonder though, why you would often be taking Subutex after full-agonist opioids. Does the same doctor prescribe both of these? Taking a full-agonist opioid, and then an opioid antagonist afterwards seems really counterproductive. Take an opioid, and then take an opiate blocker after?

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