Taking Subutex And Percocet Together (Page 16)
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My doctor just put me on subutex along with percocet. I've been on percocet for yrs for severe and chronic migraines. He told me to take the subutex and if it doesn't work to take a percocet. I usually take 15 mg percocet at a time. I've read some stuff online that worries me. Some people say if you take percs with subutex you'll go into withdrawals. I went through severe withdrawals with fioricet months ago and I don't want to go through that hell again. I took my first subutex about an hour ago and I still have a migraine so I want to take a perc now. Can I do that or will I get sick?

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Wow, sorry about that. This has never happened to me which has me very puzzled. I take only 1/4 sub twice a day. If I take a pain pill, I get no effect from it.

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Hi, I was confused about this too. I've been on subutex, suboxone and pain meds off and on now for years. Up until a couple months ago I used to be able to take a pain pill first, then either a suboxone or subutex, this would help the pain meds to last longer, now I get nothing. I've not taken high doses of either. I'm just wondering why all of a sudden no pain meds work? My normal dose of sub is 1/4 in the morning and 1/4 in afternoon. That lasts me all day. The sub is made to block the receptors from letting the narcotic affect you. If at first one takes a pain pill then a sub, it's ok. The other way around and one gets nothing from the narcotic. I get nothing at all now! I too thought the naloxone was meant for opioid users, so that they couldn't administer it intravenously...No idea what's going on but I can't get pain meds to work at all! A month ago I have to take 2 20's of oxy at a time every 4 hours. That's absurd for me.

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First of all I don't know of any Dr that would give their patient pain meds and sub together. That's strictly a no no. It's one or the other. Sub is to help ease withdrawal symptoms when you must suddenly stop taking pain meds. I've been taking both off and on since sub first came out. I have taken a sub, 1/4 mg in the morning, then later a pain pill. You will get no effects from the pain meds as the sub blocks it. On the other hand, if you first take a pain pill, then sub, that's a whole different story. It used to work for me but hasn't in the past couple months. Going to discuss this with my Dr. on Mon. 6-13-16...I kept going back and forth hoping to not need pain meds, but each time I would try and wean off, my pain was still so bad that I'd need pain meds, again! I hate this vicious cycle I've gotten myself into. What I want to hopefully do is get off the sub as I'm eventually going to have a knee replacement. But, like I mentioned, I could take up to 70 mg of oxycodone and get nothing! This is the first time this has happened. I've never taken that much in one day. This just recently started happening. So, what's a person to do other than allow myself to go through awful withdrawals by not taking any sub for at least 72 hours, or more. That's scary. Sorry for making this so long. Thanks for reading

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Hi, are you referring to me? Regarding posting again and be a whining baby? If so, I don't understand..sorry

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Hi, I believe it's because I have the sub in my system. I've been taking it and pain meds for many yrs and only in the past couple months have I noticed this. It's obviously frowned upon to take both, back and forth. Dr.'s tell me, one or the other. Before this I would take a pain pill in the morning, not wanting to take too many I would then take a sub after an hour or so. Pain free and feeling better. Not the case now. I do see my dr mon and the pain dr soon. I will discuss this. Thanks!

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DEB: Sorry, just wanted to get it all straight; you are saying that the Oxys don't relieve your pain anymore? If that is the case, you have probably developed a tolerance. That's what happens with opioids, unfortunately. If you take a certain dose long enough, you stop getting the usual effects from them and have to take more. That would be my guess. Have you talked to your doctor about this?

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Hi, I've been taking suboxone, subutex and pain medication for many yrs. It used to work when I would first take the pain meds then the sub. However now it doesn't at all. In fact I have oxycodone 10's and I get nothing from them. Still have pain and feel absolutely nothing. I'm thinking it's because I've been on sub for so long. What do you think? I mean I would have to go without anything for like 2-3 days then take the pain meds. I'm not sure what's going on but they just don't work anymore.

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DEB: That's if you take the percs AFTER the Suboxone. If you do it the other way around, take the Subxone too soon after the percs? That's when you can be in withdrawals.

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You will not go into withdrawals, the narcotics will just be ineffective. It's true I tell ya. I've been taking both off and on since sub first came out. One must wait at least 72 hrs for the sub to be out of your system. Otherwise it's just a waste.

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REALLY: I would like to thank you, though. Because you are such a whining, sniveling child, you went ahead and re-posted all that information I originally wrote YET AGAIN! Now maybe those who didn't see it the first time will see it and NOT be thrown into Precipitated Withdrawals! Thanks for that!

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SCOTT: Thank you Scott. Maybe people will actually believe it if they see a physician saying it. I just CRINGE when I see people on here saying "oh, it doesn't have the 'blocker' in it, so you are ok"....when it is the Bupe ITSELF that is the "blocker". And then this "REALLY" guy giving me a hard time because I don't sugar coat things. If he/she had ever been in Precipitated Withdrawals as I have, maybe he/she would be a little more forceful about it too. It was a completely horrific experience, and I would hate to see anyone on here actually believe these people and end up in a horrible rattle as I was. I am all over these forums, and I have helped countless people. That's just a fact. These are serious issues, and apparently I didn't sugar coat it enough for "REALLY". Like I care. I will continue to help people as best I can, and not worry about one whiner who got his/her panties in a wad.

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REALLY: And for your information, I have been on here for YEARS, and have PERSONALLY saved more than one person from making the same mistake as I did. So yes, I am serious about this. If you see me posting a serious reply regarding a serious issue as "venom", well I guess that's your problem, not mine. Many MANY people on here keep telling people that it is ok to use opioids right along with Subutex; THAT is going to do way more harm to people than anything I've said. THOSE are the people you need to be going after, not me. My comments were directed at them, which is why I actually addressed my responses to those particular people. I have had many people on here thank me for my advice. I don't have a "hostile and indignant superiority complex", but it sounds like you do. My advice has been GREATLY appreciated on here. These are serious issues, sorry if I didn't sugar coat my answers for you. And I'm not going ANYWHERE, I will continue to share my knowledge as a pre-med student, medical researcher and addict on here for anyone who needs it. I highly doubt that anything I have said on here has caused anyone to "make mistakes that harmed them or killed them", so land the plane on that one. Yes, I speak in real talk, sorry if you can't handle that. Maybe it is YOU that shouldn't be on here.

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REALLY: I have no "anger issues" at all. I am just tired of seeing people come on here and tell people that using full agonist opioids with Subutex is ok, when it is not. I have been through Precipitated Withdrawals, and they are Hell on Earth. I certainly don't want to see someone else go through that because they listened to some *****n on here who does not know what they are talking about. Not sure why me saying that is such a problem for you. Not sure that I care, either.

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I'm a physician and an addict clean 6 yrs relaps then suboxone, anyway you are correct! In fact the naloxone (narcan) is an inactive ingredient due to liver metabolism. So only becomes active in IV form, so you cannot administer suboxone intravenously. That's it, no other reason. The buprenorphine is the active ingredient and is called an agonist/antogonist, anyway it binds very tightly to the mu receptors (morphine or opiate receptor) and blocks other drugs from binding, it binds tighter than any other opiate used. So yes it will straight up knock what ever drug you're taking off the receptors, which is a sudden change and will send you into withdrawal. So does not matter if suboxone or subutex and the junkie experts pretty much make stuff up. Anyway you're right but there will still be those street experts that will say I know cuz my cousins dog did this or when I was at the door house I did it this way.

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Sorry, my reply about having anger issues was in response to the following post by "kkh":

"JAMES: Like this DJ TRU guy. "One has the blocker, the other doesn't, end of story!" Oh boy, not only is that not the "end of the story", it isn't even the RIGHT story. Unreal. You can break it to them, in scientific fact, and they will still be saying "no way dude!!" Because they have been able to take a Perc with a tiny dose of Subutex, hours apart, well that proves it! Not to mention the part about "lets see how we can take our Opiate Replacement Therapy meds, and get away with taking our dope at the same time!!" Besides the fact that I personally experienced precipitated withdrawals, the binding affinity of Bupe is a scientific fact, it isn't my opinion! That is something I NEVER want to go through again! I thought I knew what "withdrawal" was all about, having been a 30 year+ addict....OMG. That was INSANE! You know how they say "climbing the walls"? I was LITERALLY climbing the walls, and banging my head against them, and begging my spouse to smother me with a pillow. The spouse started shoving Trazodone down my throat, and I FINALLY passed the heck out. Friggin TRAIN WRECK!

ONCE MORE FOR CLARITY: Buprenorphine ITSELF can and will throw you into precipitated withdrawals, whether it contains Naloxone or not. Of course there can be exceptions depending on how long you wait and how much you take of either substance, but these are facts, not my opinion. This also comes from my own research and two different doctors who are addiction specialists. One of these doctors was the Addiction Specialist for the Denver Nuggest NBA team. So people, be my guest, don't believe us, believe these amateurs, go for it! Take some good, strong, full agonist opioids like Fentanyl, Oxys. (not a Percocet, which is a LOT of Tylenol) Take your dose and then wait about an hour or two, and pop about 12, maybe 16 mgs of Subutex....please, by all means! I would LOVE to hear how that went for you! Ridiculous."

In which I said "You seem to have some SERIOUS issues, anger issues being just one of them. Good luck with that.", because I was appalled by their senseless and unnecessary, out of place, venom.

This is a place people come to for help. Take your hostile and indignant superiority complex elsewhere. Horrible attitudes like yours are why some people are scared to even ask life saving questions, questions with simple answers, and it is why some of those people end up making mistakes that harm them or even kill them. Shame on you.

OP, I had to make this second comment to clarify. I apologize. I did not want you to think I was addressing you, or anyone other than this "kkh" character, or whatever the name was.

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You sound like you have some SERIOUS issues, anger issues being just one of them. Good luck with that.

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ZACH: Yes, exactly, and yet look at all the comments saying otherwise. It's just a medical, scientific, proven fact. Yup, what Zach said. These *****s are going to throw someone into a really bad time. Hopefully people on here won't believe their BS.

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One must be in moderate withdrawal from opiates before they can take any form of bupe, including subutex, otherwise you will experience precipitated withdrawal. It is NOT the naloxone alone that causes this. It is the buprenorphine.

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I'm also on a wait list and yes, it truly irritates me to no end when I see people selling or trading their bupe. They either don't realize or don't care that there are people who take their recovery seriously and really need to be on a maintenance program in order to start rebuilding their lives and they are wasting a spot in a clinic or whatever. I hope everything works out for you and your daughter, James.

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JAMES: Like this DJ TRU guy. "One has the blocker, the other doesn't, end of story!" Oh boy, not only is that not the "end of the story", it isn't even the RIGHT story. Unreal. You can break it to them, in scientific fact, and they will still be saying "no way dude!!" Because they have been able to take a Perc with a tiny dose of Subutex, hours apart, well that proves it! Not to mention the part about "lets see how we can take our Opiate Replacement Therapy meds, and get away with taking our dope at the same time!!" Besides the fact that I personally experienced precipitated withdrawals, the binding affinity of Bupe is a scientific fact, it isn't my opinioni! That is something I NEVER want to go through again! I thought I knew what "withdrawal" was all about, having been a 30 year+ addict....OMG. That was INSANE! You know how they say "climbing the walls"? I was LITERALLY climbing the walls, and banging my head against them, and begging my spouse to smother me with a pillow. The spouse started shoving Trazodone down my throat, and I FINALLY passed the heck out. Friggin TRAIN WRECK!

ONCE MORE FOR CLARITY: Buprenorphine ITSELF can and will throw you into precipitated withdrawals, whether it contains Naloxone or not. Of course there can be exceptions depending on how long you wait and how much you take of either substance, but these are facts, not my opinion. This also comes from my own research and two different doctors who are addiction specialists. One of these doctors was the Addiction Specialist for the Denver Nuggest NBA team. So people, be my guest, don't believe us, believe these amateurs, go for it! Take some good, strong, full agonist opioids like Fentanyl, Oxys. (not a Percocet, which is a LOT of Tylenol) Take your dose and then wait about an hour or two, and pop about 12, maybe 16 mgs of Subutex....please, by all means! I would LOVE to hear how that went for you! Ridiculous.

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