Subutex Question For Someone That Really Really Really Knows!
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Looooong read. I warn you now :)

Ok. PLEASE don't explain how it works or what it does. Save yourself the time. I am extremely familiar with how it works and what it does.

But I have a question that's been on my mind for many moons, forever actually (10 plus years) and I can't seem to get a straight answer to it no matter how many times I ask it and where I ask it. I am asking it here for the first time.

Just always get the usual, familiar rhetoric explaining to me how it works and where it binds and what it does, blah blah blah, but no one ever can explain the "why" behind all this wonderful science!

And at the end have one first hand case PROVING what I'm questioning to be true.

Ok so follow. So if buprenorphine is stronger than and has a higher affinity than let's say Oxycodone as a real life example, and will kick off that opioid from the receptor, this meaning it "replaces" it and fills it, then WHY bother waiting to take it?

Immediately or 24 hours later, either way, it's going to sit in that same receptor and do the exact same job!!!

I'm so tired of reading about this precipitated withdrawal crap. Now, tired of reading about it does NOT equate to not believing it. You would be an ***** not to believe it because there are just too many cases of it to be ignored so it's a real thing. I just don't understand WHY it's a real thing?

Because I cannot POSSIBLY imagine why having the opiate kicked off the receptor immediately, or having the remains of it kicked off 24 hours later, can produce such drastic night and day results?

Heck, I've know addicts that were given Narcan to reverse overdoses who didn't go through such pain as you read about some people trying to come off with Subutex or suboxone too soon and not waiting long enough!

24 stinking hours? Seriously? I mean I just don't understand WHY it would be ANY more painful OR horrible OR agonizing to just take the Subutex at anytime you want whether it's during opiate intake, an hour after Intake, or 24 hours after opiate intake, either way, no matter WHEN it is done, it is going to perform the exact same function. It's going to kick it off and replace anything that's in its way!

So why if you took it too soon would you go into agonizing withdrawal? You should NOT be going into ANY withdrawal whatsoever even if you take it immediately, because it immediately fills the receptor and prevents withdrawal.

I mean that's the entire purpose of this drug is to prevent withdrawal. That's what it is designed to do. That's what it's made to do. Whether you take it immediately or 24-36 hours later?

I mean if it took a couple weeks after you stopped taking opioids to go into withdrawal and then you could use Subutex maybe I could understand why it would matter if you did it immediately but 24 hours? That's absurd to my brain!

Now for the proof I was speaking of. After enduring watching my wife going on and off Suboxone a dozen plus times, each and every time having to watch her in agony as she detoxed off Percocets for 24 hours first. (Heavily researched this drug before I tried to put her on it for the first time and had that SAME question THEN 10 years ago)

Sitting back and watching her do something that I had ALWAYS considered to be useless, what I ALWAYS considered to be needless and what I ALWAYS considered to be nothing more than a ploy the doctors PURPOSEFULLY do as well as the manufacturer, that is to put the patient into DEEP detox so they can become their NEW PIMP, and heroes and rescuers, I ran across a small psychiatrist in Texas..

Giving up on explaining my theory to him as I had already convinced myself there was no need to detox first, was only being done to hook the patients on a very expensive product, the psychiatrist started laughing when I asked him about the usual 24 hour detox.

He became my white knight in shining armor when he said "no that's ridiculous, Suboxone will immediately replace the opiates and there's no advantage one way or the other to doing a detox first"

Smiling from ear to ear but refraining from telling him I have always thought that, for the first time after dozens of times I gave it to my wife WITHOUT waiting and guess what?

Yep that's right, she immediately responded, felt great, and took up right where she left off after just doing a couple Percocets a couple hours before, thus proving that she NEVER needed to do that 24 hours first as I have always thought.

But my question remains, I have seen far too many documented stories of precipitated withdrawal as well as read tons of agonizing stories that were NOT precipitated but just more or less people who went through living hell by doing it too soon... when there's absolutely no medical or scientific reason why they should have???

What gives???

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Re: Me (# 1)

I believe it is really each person is different so not everyone will. I used to be a hard core iv Oxy user and then they came out with suboxone and nobody knew how they worked. Me and everyone I knew learned the hard way that of we started taking the subs before going into actual withdrawals, we automatically go into them and they were worse. Now I do not if this is accurate but this I why I think it happens. When you abuse opioid your brain stops producing its own, right? So if you are dependent on the opiate to make you feel normal, then if you stop abruptly you will be sick, right? Right! So, if you take your last dose of oxygen, then take a sub an hour later, your receptors are pretty full of the oxys, that you sub comes in and fights it and pushes it off that receptor because he's just bigger. But, it has problems attaching himself to the receptor because it's not exactly like the oxygen. They are similar, but subs are bigger. So it tries to get on but is just too big and gets lost in the commotion of all the other receptors fighting with eachother and get taken away or reabsorbed with the oxy. So now you don't have oxygattaching, you don't have subs attaching, and you are not making your own. Hence, precipitated W/D. Again I do not know if that's true but that Is how I imagine it working. Some people though have no problem and can take subs immediately after. Everyone is different.

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Re: Ridgerunner007 (# 16)

Anything ending with Caine will lower oxygen levels in you body. This can affect your lungs & heart. Turn you blue. Circulation problems.

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So, it's actually 8 hours after taking something like a pain pill, but it's supposed 2 be at least 24 hours after taking another opioid. After the allotted amount of hours, the level of the drug isn't as high & has already basically left the receptors in your brain. The drug may be in your system for a week, but it leaves the receptors after a certain amount of time, insert cravings, not withdrawal, but cravings. That's when your brain is telling u "Hey. I have no more happy stuff in here! Gimme more!" So if u don't wait those hours, there is a possibility u can go into DT's bc the naloxone is pushing everything out of your system at once & making way 4 the buprenorphine 2 enter. I can take it as soon as I've taken something else & be fine, but I've watched people take it too soon & go into SEVERE automatic DT's. They also have to give whatever drug time to get into your system, attach itself to the receptors & then start 2 leave. They have an intense detox system that gets u clean in just 3 days. They hook u up 2 an IV of 100% naloxone & it just literally pushes all the drugs put of your system, so a 2 week detox happens in matter of hours & apparently it is f***ing painful. But that is the why. The drugs leave your receptors within hours of taking it & if Suboxone is used before it has had time 2 completely vacate the premises, then u have a forced eviction

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I don’t remember waiting to take suboxone when I switched over.

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If you get the white pop out under the tongue that you slide out with, read the how, what, when and why... It will answer all your questions.

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Hi, thank you for writing about this issue. I've been on subutex since 2007 8mg x 4 daily. So I also have alot of knowledge about buprenorphine. A few times I did try to get detox off with no luck. My last attempt was in june. I decided this time to go back to a pain management dr... He gave me the usual detox meds along with percocet 10s x 4 daily. I took my last sub in the morning a few hours later when my script was filled I didn't have to wait any period of time he said even if I told my last sub in the morning to take it whenever I can...so 9 days later and didn't finish the detoxing off subs. He gave me my subutex script and said go get it filled and start taking your subs anytime you want..the drs. Back when I started buprenorphine treatment in 2007bthey always all said you have to wait to take your new scripts when your in deep detox. There is no need to wait...the newish doctors now a days don't seem to follow that old rule anymore. I've helped alot of people with new buprenorphine treatments. And their dr. gave the medicine right away, no waiting 24 hours anymore. You have written this so well. I hope others are read this because there is no reason to put yourself through the hell of detox.

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In my experience it seemed methadone was the med that would send u into withdrawals if mixed within 72hrs. I lied to the Dr. about my time frame and I paid dearly for it! It had only been about 26hrs! The Dr. could have “slipped me a micky” knowing I’d get sick. And like u say, the next day he comes they like a hero with the super drug! But it’s always methadomes to Suboxe not Suboxe to methadones. Being on domes first so it’s actually in ur system for some time.

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Re: Matty b (# 62)

Thank God, we are back to normal replies before those last half-dozen or so!!!

Hello Marty :) I guess my question would be that let’s assume all of that is correct and it sounds correct to me. The question still remains as regardless of what transpires when you take it, the exact same thing is going to take place 24 hours later as well. The question I am trying to ask is what is the difference between now are 24 hours from now? That’s what it all comes down to.

So what you’re really saying is that the sub is only going to knock the oxy off one receptor which means the other two receptors will stay full which is all the MORE reason to believe that there’s no need to wait 24 hours.

In theory waiting 24 hours will actually be worse because then you’re going to have two extra receptors that are empty and only one when you take it where as doing it immediately all three are full. So again something is still not right :)

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How’s everyone doing!? Subutex is only a partial opioid. There are 3 different receptors that I know of. Buponorphine only has an affinity for one as full opiates bind to all the receptors. Taking subutex is stronger when binding to the specific receptor kicking in off the weaker oxy ect... throwing the body into a chemical imbalance hence precipitated withdrawals can incur

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Re: Kim (# 60)

I changed my mind. You’re not stupid and mentally unstable. You’re evidently 12-years-old after that last post!

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Re: Master Plumber (# 46)

Idk!youre such a smart ass you know all of everything! You ask and answer your own questions . If you’re a real plumber I wish you’d plug up that big as hole in your head that u use to talk with!
I hope u get your fat a;:- stuck under a house! I And have to crawl in raw sewer! U turd! While your in detox would be FANTASTIC! ! I doubt nobody would look for you!

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Re: Kim (# 53)

Blah blah blah blah... You and your newfound cohort that up until this point was an excellent thread and had dozens of fine replies was great till you and Mr. ***** came along making fun of me and the doctors who replied and attacking the thread is a sure fire example of how you are mentally unstable as well as your other friend Rusty (rusted in the head). Just the fact that you’re wasting your time on such a thread is nothing more than a clear example of how useless your life must be. Going to have your husband kick my butt??? My God go away!!! LMAO

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RustedOne (# 54) --

Are you still here? Must have a pretty worthless life to get your excitement off of a thread!!!!!!

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Thanks for the amusement. I wonder if you've ever even taken a sub. How long are you going to continue arguing on your thread? I'm going to keep notifications on, as every reply gets me a good 15-20 seconds of giggling.

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Re: Master Plumber (# 45)

And men that attack a women or nothing but animals! And if u were within driving distance my husband would show you what a dead animal is u ah! Big Man U r u r

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Re: Master Plumber (# 50)

I wasn’t making trouble! I was being as polite as I could be!! TILL I WAS CALLED NAMES! IT IS ME THAT'S STARTING TROUBLE!!!! It takes a big man to mistreat a 140 lb women online!

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Re: Master Plumber (# 52)

I didn’t come for help! U did! And it doesn’t look like anyone’s going to answer a question that’s somewhere in a 1000000000 word question!

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Re: Master Plumber (# 46)

PLEASE! I’ve been on sub for probably longer than you've been alive! I understand it just fine. What I can’t understand is, WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS? Or you're so freaking bored u find time to call names online?

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Re: Kim (# 51)

LMAO!!! Read like the first sentence and stopped. It’s all useless babble. You are seriously a disturbed individual. You DO know that right??? You need help. And you probably won’t find it here. Bye :)

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Re: Master Plumber (# 41)

Do u realize how seriously stupid u sound? Duh, I don’t give a flying s-:()” what u do or how u do it YOURE STILL GONNA HAVE W/D PERIOD! From the sounds of it you haven’t been on subs for very long or u WOULD understand how w/d are ! I don’t care if u taper down to a tiny tiny crumb of sub! ITS GONNA HURT THE SAME AS IF U WERE ON 8 mg! And there’s no difference in subutex and suboxone except for suboxone sucks because it stops u from being able to take other p/m with it. So like the guy said bla bla bla,
Nope, I GUESS IM STUPID FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING YOUR MILLION WORD QUESTION!!! Maybe if u shortened it then just maybe,,, SOMEONE COULD ANSWER IT! On the other hand you’re such a smart a”” why don’t u figure it out! And I guarantee U one thing if u ever had the balls to speak to me face to face You’d be more like a dead animal! Now that’s a FACT!

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