Seconal Shortage-2 Years, Enough Is Enough

Bausch health, as the sole supplier of this 80 year old insomnia CURE, (and 2 year testament of my success 1st hand with 200mgs a night) and the legions of agonizing deaths of terminal ill patients that have chosen physician assisted suicide have now have been suffering AGONIZING end of life treatments in the wake of this shortage.

These agonizing deaths are on your hands due to your unwillingness to manufacture Seconal. Seconal, first line treatment and painless/peaceful exit of this world w/ their loved ones from their terminal illness. My insomnia has been barely curtailed minimally with heavy benzos to have bare minimum 4 hours a night. These terminally ill patients are the ones that have been suffering the most with their substitute for Seconal, a 3 med concoction which anecdotally is excruciating. Start manufacturing now or this company will have a legion of surviving families with one company in mind in wake of this trauma. Do what’s right.

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The price of Seconal, a very inexpensive drug, and very effective for insomnia, has sky rocketed to thousands of $! Seconal is not ONLY for Dr assisted suicide, that is probably a relatively small percentage of its uses (although an absolutely legit smite one). There is NO reason for the ridiculous increase in price and the extreme difficulty in obtaining it. It could force people to buy illegally on the street as “Reds” where the danger of the drug being ineffective or contaminated with dangerous other drugs (fentanyl etc) is very real. The government should step in, this is an example of Big Pharma becoming greedy opportunists. Seconal is a LEGAL drug and should be obtainable with a Drs Rx at a REASONABLE price. I had a legal Rx but was unable to fill it, both for its unavailability and its price. The Rx was for insomnia! There is no ethical reason for Seconal to be unavailable or exorbitantly priced, regardless of its intended use. Both insomnia treatment (and Dr assisted suicide in states where it is legal) are VALID reasons for people being able to obtain it. This is a disgrace!

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We have discussed and discussed this. I too found it an effective and safe aid for insomnia used properly. PROPERLY means EVERY drug has the potential to be misused or abused or have bad side effects. Yes the refusal to manufacture this drug and PRICE IT reasonably is inexcusable. The FACT that it has been used in physician assisted suicide is IRRELEVANT. There are other methods of ending life. Alcoholism is a form of suicide in some people, plus of murder: drunk drivers kill how many people a year? Yet we aren’t going back to Prohibition. Automobile deaths: how many are suicidal? Reckless behavior is present in some suicidal people. FENTANYL and DRUG OVERDOSE KILLS MORE PEOPLE than DR ASSISTED SUICIDE. The list goes on and on.

The reason for the scarcity and EXORBITANT cost of a formerly very inexpensive drug is....GREED. Plain and simple. Not morality, not concern about misuse, not anything but GREED. And the government has done nothing to address this. “Reds” can be bought on the street. Like “Ludes” & other illicit drugs. Of course buying a drug on the street is Russian Roulette. What is the purity and strength of the drug? How many deaths are caused by adulterated street drugs? Too powerful, contaminated, poisonous... it’s a crap shoot.

We discuss and discuss but Seconal remains very difficult to obtain if at all and then it will cost you thousands. By constantly exposing this issue through forums like this, by petitions to our representatives, by refusing to let this issue go away we can only HOPE to make Seconal available and affordable. The “stigma” of Dr assisted suicide is only a cover for the true reason: GREED. If anyone has an idea please address it. The drug overdose pandemic sweeping our country and the world the fact that first responders now carry Narcan because of how many 911 calls involve DRUG OVERDOSES, Fentanyl, heroin, makes the forced unavailability and exorbitant cost of Seconal a sick joke.

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My concern is the emphasis on Seconal as a method for Dr assisted suicide rather than on its intrinsic use as a highly effective aid for resistant insomnia. This seems to shine a light on Seconal as a lethal medication which, if released on the market at a fair price ( not thousands of dollars) will result in an epidemic of suicides by individuals who might otherwise not die, and a rush of Dr assisted suicide as euthanasia for suffering patients.

Seconal has been stigmatized unfairly.

It was NOT developed as a medicinal murder weapon. Nor were other barbiturates. All of which have become very difficult and/or expensive to obtain. The RISKS of Seconal resulting in both intentional and unintentional ODs have been MASSIVELY eclipsed by the total pandemic of ODs from Fentanyl, heroin, opioids, also illegal drugs which turn out to sometimes be much more "pure" than expected and thus result in unintentional ODs. All of these drugs can be and often are LETHAL. And usually bought on the street. Making them both relatively cheap and dangerous as to their composition. I am not an expert on EVERY form of Dr assisted suicide but I would PRESUME opioids would be very efficient. I would like a statistical study of how many deaths both intentional and unintentional result from opioid ODs vs Seconal ODs, also intentional vs unintentional. I may be just repeating myself but the issue of getting Seconal, an inexpensive medication, made available and REASONABLY PRICED, should be the aim here, as a LEGALLY prescribed medication for insomnia. It’s intended use. Yes it can be humanely used effectively in Dr assisted suicide where legal, and sometimes by suicidal individuals on their own. But we sure have a very effective arsenal of lethal drugs in this country ( and the world) via the manufacture of deadly and addictive opioids of every type. Which can be obtained both legally and very easily illegally.

I definitely agree strongly that Seconal should be available and relatively inexpensive. Not held hostage by pharmaceutical greed. But it also should not be lobbied for availability STRESSING its use in Dr assisted suicide. That is ONE use. And that use should be permitted as legal euthanasia. But I would hazard a guess that successful pressure to make Seconal available and fairly priced should focus on its primary use, an aid for insomnia. Everyone is aware of its "off label" use. But weaponizing it as the rationale for making it available and affordable does not seem to be the most effective way of achieving the goal.

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Re: Nygoldengirl (# 3)

I Definitely hear you, and your rational approach is probably the more straightforward between two ethical parties. Bausch health I believe is as ethical as Joseph Stalin. Bausch not only bought, monopolized, and hiked prices to 3000$, (insurance will cover it FYI just gotta make them do what they are paid to do, as they did for me just make a professional paperwork case and don’t give up) as the generics for secobarbital are MIA since 30 years plus. As a lifetime insomniac all my life proven by sleep study, I promise I will not falter, reason, bargain, or back down until Seconal is manufactured again for sleep insomnia. No comment or judgment on its off label use either way, my point is keep this 80 drug available for insomnia or be prepared for a legal action that I will not cease until it’s either reinstated into manufacturing again, through the Supreme Court, or call in a favor to my generic drug manufacturer CEO contact that’s been itching to make a Seconal generic. -To Bausch Health, Clocks ticking...

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Re: Silent Majority (# 4)

I totally agree and hear your pain about insomnia. I too have trouble sleeping and Seconal used properly is very effective. The outrageous increase in price on THIS particular drug puzzles me. It’s an old drug, some pharmacists actually seem unfamiliar with it, and there has been a slew of alternative sleep meds developed. Most are not as effective, supposedly less “dangerous” but that’s incorrect. Ambien is known to be associated with “ sleep walking” type episodes. Which can be deadly. But it’s wildly popular with Drs. And relatively inexpensive. Therefore my query: WHY jack up the price of a drug no longer a first choice med for insomnia? Well Qualudes are also a very rare med, as is Nembutal and other barbiturates. They were stigmatized as drugs of choice for addicts looking for “uppers and downers”. I have known a few people who were at one time abusers of this type of addiction.

But we have MUCH better options for addiction today! It’s almost laughable in a black humor way. Ecstasy, Rohypnol, Methamphetamine, Heroin, Cocaine, our gift from China that keeps on giving, Fentanyl, is wildly popular with the drug abuser crowd. And very deadly. And very easily obtained...in the street. As far as euthanasia, again I’m not an expert on what concoctions Drs use now but they certainly have a formidable arsenal! And people self euthanize every day. Hence every first responders carrying Narcan, an antidote for OPIOID OD, not BARBITUATE OD, to the best of my knowledge. The push to have barbiturates made difficult to obtain was done years ago before the flood of truly death dealing opioids flooded the market, pushed by Drs as pain meds which can become addictive in two ways: through tolerance and abuse. Drug addiction is partly psychological. Not every patient given opioids becomes an addict but addiction prone individuals can and will.

So we come full circle to your original inquiry: WHY is Seconal suddenly become an outrageously priced medication? It’s not the only one, look how they hiked up Epi pens, a life saving drug! I totally support your quest to find out why this is not being investigated and yes legal action could be an option. Big Pharma is not all bad. R & D is crucial and imperative. Look how much incredible research is being done to rapidly develop a COVID 19 vaccine. And new antibiotics of last resort. R& D is expensive and time consuming. But medications in the USA are in general grossly overpriced. That’s in the news constantly.

But our focus is on an OLD drug which should be available generically, which has long ago been “ developed” and is suddenly outrageously priced. There is a stigma attached to barbiturates because they WERE the first line of euthanasia and addiction. But they’ve been made petty compared to the flood of opiates and the horror of opiod ODs. So I strongly support the quest to get Seconal once again available and inexpensive and for Drs to be educated as to its valuable use as a hypnotic. And insurance should cover it...but right now that’s almost impossible. I believe this price gouging should be pursued by any means possible. It’s irrational GREED. I would caution against stressing its use as an euthanasia drug as to the overriding reason it should be available and inexpensive. It’s ONE reason but that’s not why barbiturates were developed. It’s very well known already that it CAN be used in euthanasia. But as I said were flooded with every kind of lethal opioid today and worse people are self euthanizing...with these deadly opioids. I would suggest focusing on its original and highly effective use: a great help for insomnia. And pharmaceutical greed. And how best to carry this fight forward. I’m with you on that. The gouging on price for Seconal is an outrage and should and must be stopped. The question is how.

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I have insomnia that nobody can fix (tried MGH and DHMC as last resorts) so I googled this out of curiosity. The page I read said they encourage benzos instead. Why so people can get addicted quicker?
This is infuriating.
But if you don’t mind benzos I had good results with timeazepam/restoril. The only problem was my insurance wouldn’t pay for the lowest dose and even after dumping what seemed like half the larger dose in the trash it was still too strong.

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Re: Silent Majority (# 4)

I agree, pure greed. Seconal is very inexpensive, like maybe 3 cents a capsule and Valeant wants to exploit these poor souls. The government knows what is best for you, that's why great sleeping meds like Placidly, Doriden, Quaalude, Tuinal, Nembutal, and Amytal aren't made anymore worldwide. I was very fond of Doriden, also known as Glutethimide. Now we have Ambien and Lunesta which really doesn't work at all for me at least. Sad

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Re: Joseph (# 7)

Man, nailed it perfectly. Psychiatry was at a pinnacle in the mid 20th century with sedative/hypnotics with the tip of the spear: Seconal, Nembutal, Amytal, Quualudes, and Tuinal. Taken as prescribed and did the mission consistently; sleep! It currently has regressed to the dystopian present of ambien buspar and trazadone, these drugs have zero benefits and are detrimental physiologically. BAUSCH HEALTH, I will not cease, falter, or lose heart. Secobarbital will be manufactured again. So either manufacturer your name brand Seconal or wait for a cheap generic secobarital to sweep and dominate the market of insomnia. Clocks ticking, ‘botched-health’

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Re: Determined Insomniac (# 8)

Thank you, Trazodone actually is an antidepressant that is used off label as a sleeping pill, why you may ask- because it is not a controlled substance. It is happening more often these days that doctors don't want to prescribe controlled substances. The last I heard Secobarbital was being made or marketed by Valleant Pharmaceuticals . Like I mentioned Doriden was very good as was Placidyl and the government practically forced the last two companies that were manufacturing them to cease, in favor of Ambien, Lunesta, and Sonata. It really disgusts me.

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The Government of the United States practically forced manufacturing of any of the sleeping pills that worked very well to discontinue them: Doriden, Placidly, Tuinal, Nembutal, and Quaalude. Now we have the 3 Z drugs, Ambien, Lunesta, and Sonata. Also, the off label prescribing of Trazodone (Desyrel) and Amitriptyline (Elavil) for sleep. It really is a shame. Doriden was my favorite.

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Another great sleeping pill that was discontinued voluntarily by its manufacturer, Abbott, was Placidly (Ethchlorvynol). It was discontinued in '99, largely due to the fact that very little prescriptions were written for it. The Benzo family replacing it as well as the other good hypnotics like Doriden, Sopor, Tuinal, Nembutal And Seconal. The company that makes Seconal now, Valleant should be ashamed of themselves for exploiting the people who are prescribed it for euthanasia. It literally takes a couple of cents to make per capsule and they are charging between 25-30 dollars per capsule! I wish another pharma company would start to make the older, more effective sleeping pills again.

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The best sleeping medication in my opinion was Doriden (Glutethimide) especially if taken with codeine. Pure euphoria and bliss, very long lasting too. But in '93 Uncle Sam knows what is best for us and made it a scheduled 2 with a production quota of practically zero. Tuinal, which was a combination of equal amounts of secobarbital and amobarbital was very good too. The secobarbital which is short acting to put you to sleep fast, and the amobarbital which is intermediate acting to make you stay asleep through the night. Seconal alone is good. Nembutal and Placidyl which were great for sleep as was the infamous Quaalude (which stood for Quiet Interlude) were terrific. But all good things come to an end sometime. Benzo sleeping pills are not effective and the Z sleeping pills may as well be placebos. And the off label prescribing of antidepressants like Elavil and Desyrel is not very wise, doctors do this to avoid writing a prescription for a controlled substance. Big pharma please bring back some of the older hypnotics.

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The US DEA practically forced the pharmaceutical companies from manufacturing some of the best sleeping medications that ever existed. That and the advent of the benzos and Z medications. Placidyl, Doriden, Tuinal, Nembutal, Amytal, and even the highly abused Methaqualone were the best sleeping pills. No one makes them anywhere. Another reason is there is not enough demand for them for the pharmaceutical companies to manufacture them. Now they want to give you Trazodone and Amitriptyline, off label prescribing for sleep so the physician doesn't have to write a script for a controlled substance. Its really a shame.

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Re: Joseph (# 13)

I find it ironic if the DEA would discourage the manufacture of barbiturates when they have allowed Big Pharma to manufacture endless supplies of OPIODS! I do not recall a BARBITUATE CRISIS but I certainly know there’s an OPIOD CRISIS! The number of people ODing on opiods of every variety far exceeds the number of people who abused, or ODed from, barbiturates.

I think there are other reasons behind the reduced manufacture, and exorbitant prices of barbiturates. Greed certainly plays a role. Seconal is an inexpensive drug now costing thousands. Didn’t Big Pharma raise the price of Epi pens exorbitantly?

Why are so many Americans turning to Canada for their meds?

Yes Seconal is available on a limited basis for thousands. It’s ironically probably still a street drug, “ Reds”, but I would absolutely not trust a street drug, aside from its illegality because there is no way of knowing what you’re getting.

Only a concerted effort by patients to demand affordable barbiturates seems a plausible route to take, but so many patients today have limited knowledge of sleep aids other than Ambien and it’s ilk. Meanwhile every first responder is carrying Narcan to combat the flood of ODs from opioids and fentanyl. Ironic isn’t it?

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I highly doubt that another pharmaceutical company is going to start making Secobarbital. There is very little demand for it that it qualifies as an "orphan drug ". When the FDA voted to make Doriden (Glutethimide) a scheduled 2 drug with a production quota of 6 grams (a nominal amount, enough for 6 tablets) they said that there is no benefit of Doriden over the benzo sleeping pills currently on the market. That was in late '92. Halsey Drug was the only pharmaceutical company to send a rep to the meeting. The rep said that Halsey would be willing to make the drug if it's moved to schedule 2, but if production quotas are set at a ridiculously small amount they would not "kick and scream ". Doriden was my favorite for some reason it had special qualities to it. They were however made in Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria until 2006, that is when Ranbaxy Pharmaceuticals bought the Hungarian company, I forget their name, and discontinued the products that were not big sellers. I yearn for those days. But as far as the old hypnotics coming back, wishful thinking.

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Re: Nygoldengirl (# 14)

Please elaborate on this quote of yours, “Yes Seconal is available on a limited basis for thousands.“ anecdotally, sourced, or random blog, I need to know on what terms it’s offered at all! This is a game changer. Thanks

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Re: Joseph (# 15)

“I highly doubt that another pharmaceutical company is going to start making Secobarbital.”

I beg to differ sir, Seconal is just my game. Like phenobarbital persists legitimately providing an extreme long half life suitable for essential tremor, seizure, and withdrawal comedown no benzo or name brand snake oil buspar or trazadone could compete. Phenobarbital’s polar opposite end of the barb spectrum with the shortest prescribed half life, Seconal, provides an unparalleled focused treatment to delayed sleep onset insomnia unmatched in 80 plus years. Additionally, this is more ideal and cutting edge for panic attack situations for its mildly short duration but faster onset than modern “competing” drugs efficacy. I’ll build a damn manufacturing plant and fiance a generic if I have too. I’m fired up, let’s make sedative hypnotics great again!

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