New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!? (Page 2) (Top voted first)

Hello all, I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong. Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc. The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way. I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread. TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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Yes, you are correct as I heard Ms Hillary Clinton again mention opioids. This has got to stop, if not people will turn to illicit drugs. I do not want pain meds from a company in Iceland. The hell with actavis. They have had recalls on their oxy among other drugs from them. I can truly feel everyone's pain here it's not right!!! I'm on my way out cancer let alone blown shoulder neck back. I'm in good Ole pill mill floriduh and these *****s have messed it up badly for us folks. Something has got to give. We all need to form a massive group and complain to the fda / dea- and whatever government officials to get this out in the open asap. I hate to say this but I think this is what the government wants people to do; turn to the streets. I know I will come final stage of my life and I'm not getting any relief from their watered down bull. They are passing the medical Marijuana bill which is a huge plus. It works indeed then we can say the hell with big pharma and their bogus non effective pain medications.
People we have got to take a stand!!! I wish all here the best and let's go after these pharmas. It's not right not right at all!!!

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I noticed the same. my 7.5 norcos seem like taking a 5 mg or even less. I've been on opiates for ten yrs plus also and have came down from 30 mg roxys to the norco (not by choice) no dr seems comfortable in prescribing strong meds anymore ... but not to sound paranoid i noticed this change in my pills lately and thought it was my tolerance to them but this subject is every where. do you guys think that the pharmaceutical companies are in bed with the government secretly lowering the amount of the actual drug in our pills.... just food for thought. it would make sense to do this trying to curb abuse. remember the changing of the oxy formula, the once best pain killer on the planet is relatively useless and ineffective now hmmmmmm?

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Wow, I thought I was the only one that noticed. I've been taking these for years. At the beginning, they worked great. Now I'm having to take four or five at a time to do what one pill used to do. They have definitely changed something and its making us with pain suffer. Its cruel and they should be punished for doing so. My wife also has crushed discs in her back and can barely move at times even after taking her new medication (hydrocodone) and she's saying they're not working any more either. F*** these as*holes.

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I think that. The wasted effect which I don't get. It's the being sick all of a sudden and it not being as effective in the pain control. Not every body abuses these pain meds and there are plenty of people who have really bad chronic pain me being one of them in which it is debilitating. I don't think the rest of us should pay for those who abuse the drugs.

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Dr.D, I don't understand what you are saying. What do you mean by wasted effect? If the doctor is trying to help patient with pain,why is this okay with the physician?
If you believe some people really have chronic pain,it seems the physician would want to be an advocate for the patient. Clearly it is not the same medication that relieves pain.

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Well after reading the below post (DrD).. I think we can all agree that what we believed to be true this entire time about our Hydrocodone (Norco) is in FACT true. No more guessing. The FDA has changed the medication....tampered/adjusted the effect of the IR!!! ( I do understand that just because someone says they r a Dr doesn't mean it is necessarily true..but his post confirmed our questions) I mean we all have known this.. We can tell by simply taking the ineffective meds! They don't work!!! We r all now taking pain medication that doesn't relieve the pain?!? Really??? This is horrible. They wanted to call it removing the 'wasted effect'?? I would rather call it removing it being 'effective'!!!! The medication isn't the same ,(as the dr confirmed) they removed some key ingredients and every one who is in pain can tell. So this post basically confirmed what we all have been saying all along. There r our answers as to what the hell is going on with our medication/Norcos! I find this all so disturbing and so wrong in many ways. But it is what we have all been asking about this entire time, what all these post have been about- us questioning what the hell is going on with our medication!!?!?! We all knew it was different. That's the FDA/Government for you. To have people who are in need of pain medication because they r in chronic pain and now get medication which doesn't work- all because they (FDA) is trying to curb drug addiction? Where is the justice there/here??

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I just came from my pain management doctor visit today. I point blank asked him, what is going on with the quality of narcotic analgesics these days? He told me that for years now the government has been funding the pharmaceutical industry to create narcotic analgesics that can't be abused and these watered down versions are the result. He also said that because of this people who abuse the drugs are taking huge amounts causing overdose deaths to be 10 fold higher and the government is trying to hide this fact. My doctor was kind of upset about the government tying his hands by inferior pain medications with ridiculous prescribing guidelines. He said, they weaken the drugs effectiveness and then say to prescribe a lessor amount to the patients. It's just ridiculous. He also said, that this has been happening in 12 to 20 year cycles. They crack down, then all the unintended consequences come to light. Meaning people needlessly suffering and the next generation of politicians lessen the restrictions and allow doctors to treat the pain as medically necessary. Right now we're on the down swing which will last till politicians are out of office who started the down swing. I've been in pain management 27+ years and know exactly what my doctor is talking about. I've seen it change 2 times, this is my second down swing.

Like I've said numerous times before, anytime the government gets involved in anything the innocent will always needlessly suffer. We're the victims of their failed policies! The innocent ones here are the severe chronic pain sufferers. Instead of going after crooked doctors and drug addicts they go after the easiest target US! I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, my doctor told me that no matter what prescribing guidelines they come up with that he would never lessen my dosages and could easily justify it and other doctors and the medical board would back him! But most people are going to see a reduction in their medication regime or a discontinuation of all long term narcotic medications. Other posters on here are right about new ridiculous prescribing guidelines and it's coming fairly soon, depending on the state you're in... Sorry to have such bad news for people who already are needlessly suffering, but it is going to get alot worse before it gets better... I'm very sad and upset about this! I'll be getting what I need, but most people won't be. My wife just came in while I was writing this and could see my crocodile tears and ask me what was wrong... I told her it's for the people who are going to take their lives because they can't live with the pain and all because of the *****s who run this country who are clueless about everything thing they do... Severe Chronic Pain Sufferers Lives Matter Too, but unfortunately a low life means more these days...

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These are junk. This company activis needs to be investigated asap.. I don't know what they are putting in these but they are no where near the old Watson yellow 853. The same with there crap oxy A214 I'm telling you folks they are extremely different.
Whom do we can contact fda? One of these made by the real manufacturer Watson 853 pain relief with in 15-20 min. Not with these whatsoever. Complete junk. If anyone else out here is having issues with this watered down junk please let's take a stand asap.
Something is horribly wrong here. And for us folks dying this is not right!!! Noway would I be able to take 4 of the real Watson 853s in less then two hours and still have pain issues!!!!!Nothing has not touched my pain feel like I'm taking a sleeping aid pill with zero effect on my pain!!!!!!!

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I know in butte county the DEA is really involved in the opiums that are being prescribed to people like me my dr was told he could no longer continue giving me them anymore and one year ago i broke two vertebrae in my neck c6c7 and they told me it is because the DEA is cracking down on them because too many people are getting the hydrocodone and other meadications i dont know if this situation is similar to your county but i have recived the same ones and i feel nothing i have taken these for a very long time so maybe they are changing it to see if people are truly needing them to see if they notice or just being really cruel

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If the purpose of this board is to clarify and enlighten one another (as well as to share opinions and personal experiences) about hydrocodone pain meds, why not read through the thread a bit? It may help answer some of your questions or, at the very least, give another perspective to consider.

But, once again, the color, per se, of the pill is not the actual problem. Nor is a person's tolerance to the drug - to a degree this may impact the drug's effects, but not to the extent we are seeing and hearing about on this board.

For the final time, it is the abuse-deterrent properties used in the manufacturing process of nearly all scheduled/controlled drugs that have changed the potency of a particular medication.

I posted a link on here somewhere but won't do it again. It is a link straight from a government site that specifies which drugs are being altered (reduced in potency) and when this whole thing started; it began in stages several years ago. Europe got in on the act, too, but that's another story with other, UK documentation, if I recall (not included with my post).

Say what you will, think what you wish, hope for the best. But this is what we've got now, and no pharmacy is going to have that certain brand or color or strength, etc. of hydro that replicates (or even comes close) to what you got in the past.

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Yep,same problem here. Something isn't right,but with big pharma we may never know. The yellow ones worked....no problems just normal with pain relief. The white ones...just sleepy.

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I'm with you. Been doing a lot of research and you're right there is something wrong and I don't like being lied to about my medications. I've heard many different reasons why this pill isn't working but after40 years in the medical field...I know some thing is not right here.

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I've been taking very little that does work lately. I do feel that the DEA have got involved and they have scared the makers into putting lower doses of hydrocodone in it pills.also wal greens and Walmart order so many pills the sit for months and seem to be old and therefore weaker.I also get Xanax and have that problem one I never had prior to the new DEA class lowering tactics they put in place..Blame it on the government they find a way to f..k up all things in some lives !!

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It's alot more than just Norco that has been messed up... They only care about drug addicts getting high and have absolutely no problem letting legitimately suffering people suffer. Only in America do drug addicts have a higher priority than people suffering in pain! This is just further proof of how out of control our government has become in our lives and we all know all to well when the government gets involved in anything it's always a certifiable nightmare for the innocent!

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It is important to remember that credentials are not verified at MedsChat. Just because someone claims to be something, does not mean they are.

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I complained to the FDA. My pharmacist and was told by both that it was just me and they had no complaints and both pretty much blamed me and said I was alleric to my medication that I've been taking for years and never had a problem with it before. They both also referred me to go back to my Dr. To find an alternative. To me this is my answer that something is not right!!!!!

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BL- i had a reaction to the 'filler' in Norco by Millkrofot (spelling ?) and when I tried to discuss this with the pharmacist.. He said they were all the same different name. I just had to laugh. That is where all my research started from- when CVS quit carrying Qualitest and moved to the other and I got migraines. Through my research- yes each company is only to hold the active ingredient their fillers can differ. Also my friend is a head nurse- from him his friends are doctors & pharmacist. He inquired for me when I was having trouble finding yellow Norcos (anywhere & everywhere) and he told me that the pharmacist friend told him that he had attended a conference and Norco were a topic of discussion. Apparently the FDA was cracking down on this particular medication because of drug abusers & over doses that have the death rate up. Also that they were attempting to remove the yellow Norcos off the market because there what the drug addicts seek out. Hence when I would go to a pharmacy and ask what brand they looked at me crazy and simply dismissed me, as if I were a junkie requesting a free high!!
All this is what it has come to. I don't think any of it will ever change back:(
I myself went to my doctor and asked to be switched because of all this and the way I was being treated when I was only trying to find the kind of medication that worked.
To everyone in the blog post- we suffer and it sucks. If you can see if your doctor can try and change.. Something. To be in pain all the time is simply unacceptable.

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Hey queeniek the pharmaceutical company I think you're trying to say is Mallinckrodt and they make some of the worst narcotic analgesics I have ever taken for my severe chronic pain. I've taken their Percocet and Norco generics and they have all most zero effect on my pain. Anyone who says they actually work aren't in severe chronic pain. I've complained to the FDA, pharmacies and doctors only to be treated like I'm the only one who has an issue with the medications, but we all on here know the truth about what they've done due to loser drug abusers. It's not that the active ingredient has been reduced to say 8mg because I used to be able to take 1/2 of a 10/325 Norco and get some pain relief, but now I could take 2 of these new white 10/325 Norcos and get almost ZERO pain reduction. If that's not proof of a weakened analgesic, then I don't know what more proof anyone would need. Those of you out there know exactly what I'm saying who have the misfortune like myself who have to take this stuff to tolerate being alive in our broken bodies... I had an epidural abcess from L4 to S1 from a back surgery 27 years ago. Made worse by having me on IV steroids for 10 days with the infection. I'm lucky that I'm alive and not paralyzed from the waist down, but my spinal cord and nerves at 3 levels are covered with a massive amount of scar tissue that can't be removed because of where it is. Until I abuse the privilege of having these narcotic analgesics to combat my severe chronic pain I shouldn't be subjected to watered down narcotic analgesics nor treated as a drug seeker by any health care professional with an ounce of common sense and the government has absolutely NO business making policies or decisions about my course of medical treatment by any doctor or going to pharmaceutical companies and having them lessen the quality of the actual active drug ingredient.
If we complain, we all get treated like we're the drug seekers and all we want is some reduction in our suffering to have some dignity in our lives. I won't even go to an emergency room anymore for any reason because I'm not going to let anyone treat me like I'm a drug seeker! As soon as they find out the medications I'm on the only possible reason I'm there is for more drugs or I must have injured myself because I was high on my medications or I injured myself to get more drugs...
Because we're such a small group of people it was real easy for the low down politicians to further ruin our destroyed lives even further without any worry of reprocusions. Because their going after drug abusers which society wants them gone... Until someone can actually get the attention of the news media and keep this in the spot light about how suffering people are made to suffer further because of people who abuse drugs. This is only going to get worse and because the government is behind this... You can bet your life they will do everything thing possible to make sure what all of US are saying will never see the light of day!
Could you imagine how angry normal everyday people would actually be if they knew that suffering human beings were being made to suffer more because of drug abusers and the government was trying to justify making innocent people suffer further because of their failed policies, so they make innocent suffering people suffer more to cover up their broken system...
I can remember 25 plus years ago when doctors were afraid and intimidated as to not prescribe the more powerful schedule II opiates to anyone outside of a hospital without cancer. Then the laws/regulations changed/lessened and doctors started helping people like us have some dignity and quality of life. Now it's going back to what it use to be and on top of it they ruined the drugs themselves and think that lying and denying about what they've done is just fine because it's what the government does about anything they messed up... Basically, we the extreme minority of suffering American citizens are being stuffed in the closet because of a broken system. Cowards will always go after the weakest people first because their unable to defend themselves and be silenced with little to no effort, that would be US :-(...
Some how all of us have to ban together via social media, the Internet and petitions signed by millions of Americans. Me personally I'm in to much pain to get much accomplished these days. 27+ years of suffering has taken its toll on my body and mind. Its taken me 2+ hours to write this. Years ago on the old OC Oxycontin and the old Roxicodone I would have written this in less than 20 minutes. This once again shows how little pain relief we're getting from the government having their hands in the pharmaceutical industry these days. We have all witnessed their ruining Healthcare and then touting how great of a job they've done=BS. Everytime they tell doctors what to do patients suffer=Fact.
I can only hope and pray that someone with actual integrity will get elected and see this injustice that has been done to suffering Americans and right this wrong, but I fear that since we're such an extreme minority that our plight will continue to fall on deaf ears...
It makes me incredibly angry and sad that I actually live in a country that has now placed a higher priority towards loser drug addicts than helping suffering people=Odumbo!
I'm sure the government has a new one sided totally blind study to say none of us should be on any narcotic analgesics long term for any reason, but you can bet your life if any politician is suffering they'll get the best of everything and as much as they want!
I wish help and comfort to all of you who are suffering more these days because of coward politicians who have attacked our quality of life because of loser drug abusers...

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How about a petition on change.org? I've seen good things come out of this site? What do u guys think? Who is well versed to write a proper petition up? We can't speak outta anger but instead facts and the repercussions of the FDA meddling in our medication? Just a thought.

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I was just speaking with my husband about the changing of the formula of Hydrocodone. At first when on pain management, our doctor had him on 10mg Methadone-4 x a day and 10mg Oxycodone/325-4x a day. Our doctor left town because the clinic he was at didn't like him prescribing anything narcotic. Even when a patient had documented proof of pain. This doctor also diagnosed him with Huntington's Chorea. For 10 years we searched for a pain clinic after our doctor left because as we all know, family physicians do not like to prescribe anything narcotic, even when someone is in severe pain. We found him a clinic finally, and they put him on Methadone 10mg-2 x a day and 50mg Tramadol. This didn't work for him so the finally upped him one more Methadone. But they changed the Tramadol to Norco 5mg-3 x a day. Then they upped him to 4 Norco. Then they added one more Methadone. Then they took away one Methadone which put him back to 2 a day. They did up his Norco to 5 a day. He told me that they don't seem to work as well as they did as when he was first put on them. The clinic used the excuse with the Methadone that the government said he was on too many (3)? I don't think so. His do not seem to work at all any more. I feel bad for him. He's dying. What the hell does it matter how many he is on. He did really good on the 4 Methadone and 4 10mg Percosets. But they won't switch him to those.. Watching him, I am positive that they HAVE done something to the formulation. And I think, but it's only my opinion that since the pharmaceutical companies are so greedy and price gouge when they can, they have removed some of the drug to make more money.. I am sure of it reading some of these.. But again, it's only my opinion. And I'm not a scientist either. Who or where can we go to, to see if these can be analyzed for proof of what amount is really in them?? Are we paying for what we're not getting??? And don't get me started on these co-pays that are through the roof, either... Thank you for letting me speak my mind

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