New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!? (Page 2)
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Hello all,

I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong.

Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc.

The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way.

I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread.

TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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Re: Richard (# 6)

I have been experiencing the same thing. About a year ago the pharmacy I was using changed the yellow norco to white. Said was same thing without the dye. The white didn't seem any different, then I had to change pharmacies. Was alright for a while then this past month I was given the 10/325 mg generic white oblong with Watson 853 imprint on one side/ a slash down middle on other side and I haven't got any pain relief from them. Have taken a total of four in last six hours and still no relief. I finally have taken 3 excedrin and obviously then could tell I took something. Not alot of pain relief at all. I have been on couch since I filled my script on the 20th of August. I have been on the norco since 2005 because of a fractured skull and broken neck. I don't expect meds to be as effective but now with the Watson 853 they don't do as much as even an aspirin. Also feel like withdrawal symptoms. Could a Dr give a script for a placebo without the patients knowledge.

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If I had a nickel for every post I've read about a pain pill not working because they removed a yellow dye. Or that a different company's version is worthless. Everyone one I've read negative comments on, I've taken, and they've all worked.

Now, don't anyone try to tell me they've been on hydrocodone for 10 years and they still worked as well as they did 10 years ago.

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I've been taking Watson 3203 for 6 months or so due to a neck injury. At first they were peach colored and worked fine. 3 a day. Then switched to white, and then they were still fine. Now after the second month of no pain relief from the white Watson 3203, what's up?

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Wow I have had nausea for about a week and a half and the doctors want me to take all these Gastro test. I had blood work and everything came out fine but thinking it's the pills makes more sense than anything else. I have been on 10 325's for six years and when I'm in severe pain they gave me now 4 mg of mophone... ( sp) which helps a lot. I have also cut my pills in half trying to get off of them but now they cannot give me any more of the other medication because the pharmacy won't fill two alike medications which in fact they are not like at all. Hydrocodone barely works anymore that's why I get the other meds.

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All pharmaceutical companies have guidelines.. they are allowed to put UP TO 22% of the Active ingredient, meaning the hydrocodone.. key words UP TO 22%.. some pharm companies use less some more.. look it up

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Go to CVS THEY GIVE YOU YELLOW PILL STOP GOING TO WALGREEN

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I agree ive never had a problem with the yellow Norco 10-325 but recently have been given this white oblong Pill Watson 853 which is suposed to be Norco1-325 But It DOESNT WORKfor me either. Frustrating because ive had 3 failed Back Surgeries so I usually take 3 a day which helps but these Watson 853- are not working at all. In one day I took 4 and still nothing. Waste of my money.

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I did find the white Watson less effective. I did find breaking them up in halves, that is still taking the full dose but break them up they work better. Hope this helps.

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I heard from a pain management doc. that they can have up to 30% less active ingr. and still be labeled 5, 7.5 and 10. same with oxy. shame. on them. But at this point I'm thinking of paying the difference and get brand and use some sort of coupon.

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I don't know what it is but I have experienced the exact same issue!!

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I'm a sheep I hate to say. I'll leave out the bio. But it was 6 years before I new I was physically addicted to pain meds. Mine wasn't and isn't a small thing that can be fixed or could've been fixed. However they could've explained what addictive meant to a 17 year old guy who enjoyed working 60+ hours a week. Having a brand new car, awesome girlfriends etc. That all lasted from 3/27/87 until about March of say 1991 @ the latest. When I realized that these 7 total Lamenectomys I was being sold & the promises of how just 1 more surgery will do it, not only was unrealistic but borderline out right lying. As for the current Opiate craze, I've seen it go full circle. In the late 80's, early-late 90's it was nearly impossable to get enough meds for my tolerence going up & the constant changing of Doctors. Even if they were in the same practice together, different m.d's had different meds they preferred. Yes now since the explosion of Pain meds in early 2000 & now the fall out from that. It's gotten so people in need can't get the amount or drug that works best because the M.D's are being told what & how much to give by & large. So yes Sheep beware we are headed to the slaughter. Funny how the movie the "Bourne Ultimatium" Jason had to cycle on blue & green "Chems". Funny those colors were picked. lol

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SAM, prescription drugs have to meet FDA regs in order to be sold in the U.S. It sounds like it would be best for you to specify the generic that works best for you when you drop your prescription off. I will be surprised if the insurance company reimburses you for buying a generic they do not cover.

Pharmacies don't always carry the same generics. It is possible Walgreens might have the generic that works best for you the next time you have a prescription.

Trixie, abuse-deterrent medications come in Extended Release form only. It can be deadly for some people to crush or break an Extended Release tablet or capsule because too much of the medication can get into their system too fast. Immediate Release medications are not abuse-deterrent.

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Yes, i do believe they are experimenting with making the hydros abuse deturrent. Because if i take a whole one of par, it never kicks in. So now i have to take a half or 3/4 a pill at a time and crush it to make it work at all. The people adjusting the formulas today havent had the same schooling as the chemists did in the 70s. The training is poor nowadays. So we get the experimental batches for a few years, while they slowly learn. Meanwhile drs are up-precsribing, because they know the hydros dont work well enough. They dont pack the punch that they were originally designed to do. They ARE adding a filler that actually downregulates the (punch) of the medicine. The body has to break this down first before the active ingredient becomes available. I can see why this whoul make someone want to take another pill. But the more you take the less it works. So, cut it in half, crush it up, take it with a fatty meal or cranberry juice sometime helps it kick in for me. So yes they are making it abuse deturrent, only the chemists of today arent qualified enough to understand what they are doing. They didnt get that 2 extra years of playing around in the lab like their predecessors. Also, they use gluten fillers from cargil byproducts that bother some peoples stomachs.

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As an RN with chronic pain from Osteoarthritis, I have been taking hydrocodone 10/325 for 8 years. This is the first time I've ever received the white Watson 853. I had to change pharmacies because my insurance covers my medication at Walgreens only. For the past three weeks I have suffered immensely. I cannot work a 2 hour shift, much less a 12 hour ER shift. I will pay for the medication out-of-pocket until this issue is resolved. I am alerting my insurance company to the problem so I can get reimbursed for the medication. I am also asking a pharmacist at the hospital to analyze the white Watson 853 for the compounding properties. This is ridiculous.
I cannot even work! SAM...BSN

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Ali , hydrocodone and acetaminophen combination drugs are not time released. If a generic says it contains 10 mg of an active ingredient, it can contain anywhere from 8 mg-12 mg. Fillers and binders vary from one drug to another. Fillers and binders can affect the way a medication is absorbed in your system. All pharmacists have to go by are the ingredients the pharmaceutical company lists.

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I don't understand how the pharmacy's are getting away with not disclosing the truth about these pills. They say they are the same but they are not quite the same. They are the same ingredients however they don't work the same because they are time released now. The government is trying to eliminate people becoming addicted as well as eliminate all the death that occur due to prescription drugs. The pharmacy's seem to be caught in the middle of the government the manufactures & the patients.
The patients whom have been taking the prescription medication for a while shouldn't be part of this change that the government is enforcing.
It is not right to change the medicine on patients that have already been taking their medicine responsibly according to how it has been prescribed. What's even worse is to not reveal the change to the patients. The pharmacy 's have even been saying that it is all in their mind. Which leads the patient to either question their own mind or can they trust the pharmacy which gives & make up their medication.
This is unacceptable totally unnecessary & inhumane behavior the way patients are being treated. Something must be done.
But where do you start & who do you hold responsible?

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Few drugs are abuse-deterrent. So far hydrocodone and acetaminophen combination medications are not abuse-deterrent. Hysingla, one of the Extended Released Hydrocodone medications is the only hydrocodone abuse-deterrent medications on the market.

Hydrocodone and Acetaminophen combination drugs have not been allowed to have more than 325 mg acetaminophen in each tablet since March 2014. Nor has any other prescription medication.

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Sounds like a lot of addicts are afraid they're going to lose their euphoria to me. It's placebo that makes you think its working different. Big pharma has been killing opioid users off anyways. Try the "evil natural drug" thc, marijuana. To bad it was criminalized. But you let your pharmacist sell you opiate scripts and methadone scripts... America's ass backwards and we sit and are led like sheep to slaughter. Keep your eyes open, you've been warned.

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KLH, I am glad to hear your pain has been relieved via the current pain medications that are available. However, these drugs are formulated differently from the way they were in the past. In your post you refer to the yellow Watsons (they were the "Norco" brand and contained a lower dose of acetaminophen combined with 10 mg of hydrocodone). If you were to get those yellow pills in today's market you'd find them to be quite inferior from the way you remember them. The reasons for the changes in potency are here on post #334.

The pills of today have been going through a gradual metamorphosis thanks to efforts by the government (in conjunction with the drug companies, scientists, etc.) to make narcotic prescription drugs less susceptible to abuse; in other words, they've been on a mission to make all controlled drugs more resistant to abuse and to tampering. They've added lots of different "stuff" to controlled drugs that make it almost impossible to feel euphoric (something that painkillers were meant to provide, considering people in legitimate pain don't want to feel worse than they already do), and they've attempted to impose a "ceiling effect" on controlled drugs, i.e. once you've exceeded a certain amount of the drug you won't necessarily get a "better" effect and you most certainly won't feel euphoric. You'll probably just feel kind of sluggish and maybe nauseated.

If you are achieving adequate pain control then your pain is being ameliorated by the acetaminophen they're putting in the pills.

G.I. distress is one of the signs you've taken too much of the drug, and this is done deliberately by the powers-that-be to discourage abuse.

So here is the way I see it, for what it's worth. The prescription drug epidemic will diminish thanks to what I just posted above (government, drug companies, etc. collaborating to discourage abuse and tampering) and doctors taking a less liberal approach to dispensing those medications. BUT for people who are legitimate chronic pain patients there may be 3 options: Consider morphine or something stronger in patch form (not sure if they've figured out how to diminish the potency of patches yet), accept the fact that "it is what it is" and use alternative, natural methods to fight the pain.

For recreational drug users who already had a taste of the old, preferred pain meds, the option many of them will choose is obvious. For new users many will probably go right to illicit drugs since doctors are under the gun to curb liberal prescribing practices and the new formulations of prescription drugs are just sub-par, in my opinion. There. I said a whole lot, but you form your own opinion.

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There's no need to be a complete a$$ when speaking to people. Talking down to chronic pain patients will never help them. I'm so glad and so lucky to have a wonderful, caring and compassionate doctor who understands me and lets me express to him how I'm feeling without him judging me. You need to "get used" to speaking compassionately. I'm glad you're not my doctor and I feel for any patients you may have.

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