New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!?
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Hello all,

I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong.

Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc.

The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way.

I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread.

TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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Re: Sandy (# 5)

Wats 853 yellow
And the 853 white then the darn v3601 bright yellow shortage - my doc said that all yellow mends affect
Me best and now prescribes my bars by actavis (yellow 2mg ir) well shoot everything but for the qualitiest 10/325s which my very reputable physician saw in all of his patients some had better effects with white while some didn’t notice while about another 3rd had withdraw

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Re: Verwon (# 1)

None of the pharmacies around me carry Qualitest or Watson any more. They only have Mallinckrodt and it’s about 50% less effective. It sucks. Like younive been in hydrocodone for over 10 years, never had a problem with effectiveness until The brand change. I guess they would rather have us suffer safely.

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Re: Tootie (# 3)

Sorry for your pain. I'm living with major pain myself. Something needs to change

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Re: Tootie (# 3)

I have never been given any "white" Norco that has worked for me. Never. There is something about them and my body, they are not effective for me. Of course, I have for years taken the yellow ones and suddenly I get the white ones and they are generic hydrocodone. I cannot do generic on most medications for some reason and I can tell you in a "blind" test which one is generic. For a long time my Doctor questioned my problem with them, but we did a little test and she was then convinced that I was telling the truth. Back to the white Norco. I started taking them yesterday and I am in horrible pain. I believe I would get more relief from Tylenol at this point. I just called my Pharmacy about these pills and decided to look further into this pill. I ran across the post above and now it is beginning to make sense. I hope someone can help find out the problem. This is totally NOT RIGHT!!!

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Re: Robin (# 358)

I just now have seen your post. I have had ongoing digestive problems, quite severe, for a good yr if not a little longer. Symptoms being nausea, major bloat, off and on, along with not able to eat much, as I get so full eating a quarter of a sandwich, feels like I just ate a huge Thanksgiving dinner. My Dr ordered evaluations n sent me to specialist, (gastroenterologist). Colonoscopy and stomach scope was performed. Results said only a small hernia between esophagus, n where the stomach meets. Specialist insisted that the hernia was too small to cause my symptoms. I was so discouraged not getting any answers. I then went to another gastroenterologist, which was a worse experience than the first one seen. This specialist outright blamed a all my problems on the opioid pain pill. I have taken it many yrs. So I didn't understand how out of nowhere it would cause me to bloat n retain so much fluid. Nausea constant n vomiting mire often than not. I wouldn't have any warning when I was going to be sick. As well as experiencing ungodly pain in court my stomach. Weight fluctuating where I back n forth from size 0-2 to size 4-5 and not being comfortable in the 5's because the stomach blows up so large. Is gradually tapering down taking a probiotic twice a day. Now I am able to eat a piece if chicken and handful of fries or half cup of mashed potatoes, however it's a gradual process where I can't eat it all in one sitting. Because of the fullness so quickly, so it takes me several hrs to eat that amt of food. The specialist couldn't find me answers. So I just deal with it. I get really hungry and for some reason to drink milk, it goes down so much easier. I don't get full on it, like food effects me. Actually started when the Norco was changed to a different brand. I didn't put that together until reading your post.

Is anyone else out there experiencing any similar symptoms since changing brands and/or drug manufacturers, along with the medicine not being effective anymore, since the opioid epidemic started? We all need to speak out. Those of us living with chronic pain, that is going to continue and possibly get worse as time goes on, depending what each individual condition or injury is because it's not an option for the majority of us to not have pain med if we want to function. It's not helping us with the companies changing the medicine, whatever they're doing to it. I am glad to know it's not just me experiencing this. Come on all. There is strength in numbers. We have to be not only heard, but listened to. For most chronic pain sufferers, addiction to a pain medicine isn't a concern because we have to have it to live and function with the physical pain. It's not going to go away for a lot of us. We shouldn't be singled out due to the strength of Norco being changed by the companies. It is wrong. Must be a better way to correct the problem with the ppl on streets getting ahold of it for recreation. I don't understand that. I take four a day. When the Norco weren't messed with, they did give some relief. My blood pressure is high now because of pain. Norco, Watson and the m367 are even worse.

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Re: Lynn Pain (# 370)

I am so relieved to know that I am not psychologically crazy, which I was beginning to question. Last yr my Norco medicine was changed from yellow to white. Was explained to me that many are allergic to the dye coloring in them. At that time, over yr ago, there was a small difference in the effectiveness, but however, I was able to tolerate the pain, as I also took Excedrin in-between doses. Also chalked it up to completely eliminating the fentanyl patch on my own when I had a person attempt to break into my home, knowing I was across the street at church.

She tried breaking in knowing my dog bites, (is a whole nother nightmare). However back to the Norco. This year, several months back, Norco was changed to Watson. I seriously questioned if my Dr or pharmacy lowered the strength or even put placebos in my script. Well this last month, my pharmacy changed brands without telling me, where I could've had an option to take my script to a diff pharmacy. This brand is mellicrift (not spelled correctly), but I'm sure u know what I'm talking about. Different binders in them and my system isn't absorbing the pain med. My Dr told me to try ibuprofen with the pain pill to help the medicine work. This month has been awful. Every pain pill. I take 4 a day. I have to take 800 mg of ibuprofen with each one, along with Excedrin or more ibuprofen in-between every dose as well. I literally have taken a total of 60 ibuprofen, since filling my script, along with 30 Excedrin, and I have 10 more days to go before I can have another month's prescription. Soon as I thought my pain med couldn't get any worse, because as I said earlier, they definitely did something with the Watson pain pill, several months back, in my area anyway. But thus month has been the worst.

I have a hangman's break in my neck, a 7'in screw literally in my neck, with the odontoid peg fractured n spreading through my body along with a fractured skull and spinal cord damage from a car accident in 2005 and in 2008, close to 09, that I even knew I existed. Got my records to even know what happened. Was 9-10-05, two a.m. that accident happened. Neck surgery performed, and discharged 9-14-05. Usually for a much less severe broken neck surgery a person is kept in the hospital for six weeks or longer. Also had hemorrhaging in the brain, place that controls coordination, expressiveness, organization. Specialist told me I was far luckier than most, if u want to call it that. Said most all ppl with injury, hemorrhaging in that area of the brain remain clueless. Never know they are here and alive.

The ppl out there abusing n selling pills are destroying the help for us people that truly do suffer with real chronic ongoing pain. There are more of the ppl abusing the medicine than evidently there are of us who are suffering worse than what we already were. I just pray that somehow my liver n stomach can last another 10 days. My pain wasn't controlled to begin with. I have asked Dr many times to change the Norco to something else that would really help control my pain. I haven't had any dang life because I suffer so terrible with the pain. Am already 56, am running out of time to accomplish all the things I want n need to. Instead live in my house isolated and in pain, missing life and work, everything. Now they're screwing with the little bit of relief I had.

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I have been taking this medication Narco since 05 for chronic pain for neck and back and I suffer from muscle spasms, and there is a difference between the yellow and the white.I have to take white all through the day to relieve pain,where I can take 4 at the most of the yellow and have a very comfortable day! I got refilled today with some white pills and I know its going to be a long month!! There's a big difference!!!

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i experienced lack of effectiveness w the 7.5s the efficacy has been terrible. whatever filler they using is bunk.

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The problem is Watson pharmaceutical was bought out by Activis that is the problem. I too have suffered for many years and was taking the percocet 10mg/325 mg which worked really well to manage my pain until I could no longer get the normal Watson brand or the Malincrocrft brand. Everyone starred pushing these pills from Activis or Amneal Pharmaceutical which doesn't work. I went through withdrawals taking it. No one wants to listen they think your a damn junkie and you don't know what you are talking about it but I was fortunate enough a very nice pharmacist that worked for CVS actually wrote me a note saying that the binders used in the manufacturing from Activis and Amneal doesn't agree with me and I was lucky enough to find another pharmacy that carries the Malincrocrft brand that I having been using for over a year now without interruption but I did have to drop down to the 7.5 / 325 to keep the Malincrocrft brand otherwise it would be the Amneal or Activis brand. These pharmaceutical companies are supposed to be using the same ingredients but I know fir sure after going through withdrawal several times they aren't and no one seems to give a crap. I psychological twice the money using the pharmacy I use but I don't want to chance getting stuck with the ones that don't work and being sick so I gladly pay more every month so I don't .

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My best recommendation is to change pharmacies for a different brand. Stay away from walgreens because they carry them. I've had better luck with CVS. There's something wrong with those Watson white 853. There's either not enough hydrocodone in them or more realistically the buffer is to hard pressed that they don't activate the right way. Which is why is makes it seem like a weak time release. I contacted Actavis, and seems that don't want to here it. So just stay away from Actavis made products altogether. They won't be able to stay a float. Then they lose. You the consumer have more power then you think. Don't buy their brand. They go away. Just my opinion. Take care, and to all those suffering everyday from pain. My heart goes out to you. Try to stay strong, and resolve issues. You don't have to sit there and take it. I'm for sure not. Keep your head up. Much love.

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I have two bulging discs, and one herniated disc in my back. I have Waston 853 10-325 white pills from Walgreens. They do not work at all!! I've just contacted my doctor for other options. These pills are bad, and something is definitely wrong with them. There's no doubt about it.

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I agree with the government/pharmacy conspiracy. I had a horrible month due to bad quality or certainly defective new generic norco. I had no pain relief & a migraine headache, from a company called aurobindo (later found it was made in India - found many others w/ the same horrible reaction. I obviously can't do anything about it for at least 30 days. Family Fare pharmacy was NO HELP AT ALL (where I got this crap). Barely made it through the 30 days, then got the white Watsons- was told it should be fine, wrong! Not a migraine, but still had bad headaches & very little pain relief. I'm trying to find out the best generic brand of norco 10-325 but have to struggle thru another 30 awful days first! I've been hearing the pale yellow Watson is better, but would like to be sure. I don't want to keep going thru this craziness. I have real pain issues!

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Re: Vicki (# 367)

I have no idea where your pharmacist got his information. But, it is wrong, I seriously doubt your pharmacist believes what he told you.

If a generic says it has 10 mg of an active ingredient. It must have 8 mg-12 mg of that active ingredient. Perhaps the manufacturer used 12 mg- 10 mg of hydrocodone in the past and now they are using 9 mg-8 mg. Fillers and binders can also affect how effective a medication is.

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U r not wrong. My fellow chronic pain friend, agrees, something is amiss w the efficacy of the change in pills. My pharmacy just changed to the less effective too. I asked why, the co. Saves money. Smh...

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Need to find pharmacy in Michigan that still carries 10-325 in yellow! In too much pain, to say, Government !!! This is what I was told, from pharmacist, pharmaceutical company is getting pressure from FDA, won't let them release medication, that works, due to regulations!! Government on big push, to clean up opioid epidemic !! So they create bigger epidemic, by allowing crap pills to flood the market. Make themselves look good, cleaning up crap, they created!! Leaving those of us, who are seriously hurting, screwed, and in severe pain!

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There is definitely something going on with our opioid meds and it's with politics interfering and the accompanying DEA mandates. They don't differentiate between those that have chronic issues and those stealing them from their parents or buying them "on the streets" for the "high", hence, accidental overdosing. So, we who have chronic issues with genuine intent have to suffer. When we have reason to believe the strength has been tampered with or we suffer from side effects from a different manufacturer, people have the increased forum replies. We don't always accept replies or the excuses because we individually have different responses to the new brand name med's effects or we get pure mad at the meddling for those with legitimate needs. I am one.

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I think they are making me extremely sleepy.

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I am not a lawyer but I have had the same problems as everyone here.I think to start with if you have insuraance we need to contact them file a complaint that we are not getting what the insurance company is paying for.If they have taken hydrcodone out snd putting less in the insurance companys are getting robbed from watson.Its called fraud the insurance companys should of ben notified that watson is putting less hydrocodone in the 10/325s .Another thing we can do is ask your dr for Hydrocodone 7/325 instead I have been on them for years and they work good.Tell your dr about the problems with the 10/325 he may increase the 7s so it is close to the tens as possible.Someone needs to test the watson 853 to see if they are commiting fraud then everyone if proven to be true sue the F--k out of watson.If you are paying for them out of your pockets and watson has not sent you a letter saying the hydrocodone is being cut in the 10/325 then they have commited Fraud.Just a few thought.Oh yes I have been on hydrocodone for over ten years for a number of heath problems.

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Re: Gintlone (# 7)

All the sudden they are terrible. I've been taking them for years and all the sudden now I feel sickly and sleepy. Something is wrong. ALSO..what does the 10/325mg T mean..I don't remember that T either?

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Re: Verwon (# 1)

All the sudden they are terrible. I've been taking them for years and all the sudden now I feel sickly and sleepy. Something is wrong.

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