New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!? (Page 17)

Hello all,

I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong.

Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc.

The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way.

I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread.

TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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I have been on them for fifteen years never a problem now i had dr. Switch me to Tylenol 4s with codeine and they work better then the 853s thats really sad cause they used to help alot now its like taking aspirin and they charge us the same for them.

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You are totally right. This is what my dr told me last month. He said the Feds are tightening down so bad bc of some ppl that uts going to be where ppl that get in a car accident and can't get pain meds in the ER. That's how much restrictions there are. I ask him if the ppl making these decisions are in pain and he said no, they push pencils for a living.

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Do they have a smell to them and it looks like these are freshly done pills like they just came out of the manufacture

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Sorry to say but there's no such thing as a "bad batch" and generics are just as effective as the others. It's either in your head, your tolerance has grown (which can still happem after years of use) or your medication was affected by what you ate, the amount of sleep you got, the level of acidity in your stomach, other medications you took that day, or any number of other factors.

The FDA tests all manufacturers and the only thing that has ever changed is the abuse potential and the amount of dye in the meds, usually in the coating. The amount of pain relief is guaranteed to be the same. Maybe your pain is getting worse or was worse at the time.

Tell yourself it's going to work the same and it will. It's usually that simple. I've been in pain management for 10 years and have been on hydrocodone for the majority of the time. If you want the most out of them, eat a fatty meal 30 minutes before taking your meds, as well as a couple extra strength Tums. This will increase the bioavailability of the opiate itself, not by much or enough to be worried about, but at the very least it will lower the acidity in your stomach and increase the enzymes that absorb the opiate. Stay away from citrus and juices as well.

The mind is a powerful thing. Be positive about it and tell yourself it will be the same, and remember it's for your pain, and "feeling" anything other than that isn't necessary and doesn't help the pain relief anyway. Assuming you're in America, the active ingredients are all there, as much as they always were (minus the apap of course). Your body chemistry changes every day though, and the effects change because of that. So try to have a consistent dietary routine and lifestyle, exercise if possible, and take them at the same times every day.

Most people have their minds made up and cannot be swayed in their opinions, but just try to tell yourself otherwise, even if you don't believe it. Repeat it every time you dose, and definitely don't dose on an empty stomach. Your stomach acidity can block some of the effects and the enzymes needed to absorb the medicine don't work at 100% on an empty stomach. Many people have been told the opposite, but it isn't true. A fatty meal 30 minutes prior will do more than you think. And whatever you do, don't take more if you don't feel better. Wait until your next dose. All you're doing is increasing your tolerance otherwise and also, the meds won't work as well when it's time for your next dose.

I hope you all find relief somehow. Less can be more. And more can cause less relief later. Trust me.

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Pops, you need to google the Hatch-Waxman act of 1984 passed by our FDA and educate yourself because you are misinformed. The Hatch Waxman act allows generics to contain up to plus or minus 20% of the active ingredient in name brand medications. Obviously, generic manufacturers are taking advantage of this, as evidenced by most generic pain medications being much weaker than the brand equivalent. I had to switch to name brand Percocet due to this, and it works very well for me. So no, none of this is just in people's heads, it's a proven fact. Look up those facts and learn something before attacking those of us in pain looking for real answers to the issue of not receiving relief from our generic pain medications, and not knowing the reason why.

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Can anyone explain why pain mess have never had any effect on me ( never worked) but at 33 finally made a bad life choice and used my first illegal controlled substance for around 3 months and right at the end of that phase I had a major surgery where moraphine had to be used on me. Now hydrocodone will work on me for pain but only hydrocodone (I have not been exposed to any further morophine which I assume would still work nor oxy which I have no desire to try ). Just wondering if the morophine or the controlled substance could possibly alter a persons chemical chemistry?

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I honestly believe it's a mental issue. I too have had to control chronic pain. 3 major back surgeries, throat cancer, gun shot wounds. They control my pain is all I can say. In fact I have asked my Doctor to help me STOP having to use any type of a Pain Aid. I found this difficult to say after 19 year's of Chronic Pain, wary bones, major nerve damage, the list goes on so why explain. My Pain Management Doctor's mouth dropped, telling me I was his only Patient that asks for something weaker now asking to Stop them completely. Dependence & Addiction are 2 very different Animals, sure anyone that suffers understands me. I am tired, just plain tired of the entire scene! The color changed, I see or feel no difference, they help the pain, that Burning feeling that's intolerable, loss of sleep, constipation, shaking while brushing teeth. Maybe something was changed, they control the pain, they also scare me. Be honest, catch yourself over using at times? Sure we all have, they trick our mind, the Euphoria wears down and we can THINK we need another or 2. I relocated to another State, seen a new Doctor he looked and said I wasn't asking for much. He actually knows my Guy from 800 miles away, certainly he knew about me before we met. I am no drug seeker, he honestly accidentally called in 5/325 instead of 10/325, I didn't look, even notice really my pain seemed to be harder to manage. Next visit I told him, he increased the dosage, a lot if needed. Now decreasing I am still receiving 2 more per day, many would say GREAT! We are doing a Radio frequency procedure to Kill the Nerve or Nerves that create this pain. Sure, the nerve will grow back, I am a Candidate. I think a Sober minded me again, I have never felt as good as when there was NO Alcohol or Medications floating around in my brain. I relish that thought, I remember that feeling SOBER awakening smiling & not thinking of a Pill. I Hope this works, I Hope, a great thought, I can lay watching a Movie, shut my eye's & visualize my own Movie from the sound of TV. I have to say they help Control My pain which has & is tremendous & no way to survive. It's became to much for to long a part of my World. Just being Honest with Me, I do know Pain & Understand other's, this is about me, no one else. I want to have the best quality time with my Grandchildren possible, with no gadgets or mind altering med's in my body. It's became an epidemic, those that sale them, I have known some Die from different types, the OXY thing. 1 fella, his Lady OD'ed and now she's dead, he insists that's all that works for Fibromyalgia, do they not get it? He never appears to be in Pain? I may be off track, possibly there is a difference, I know they control my issues with pain & it does or has been very INTENSE. I understand everyone's concerns and I wish all the luck to you. Daily Chronic Pain is nearly HELL on Earth, we all agree. I Hope this procedure works for me & please be careful each of you. I also concern myself with a traffic accident & someone dies, then blood work and vehicular Manslaughter and a dead child or anyone. If this happened, prepare a Rubber Room for "Ole Vinny". May God Bless all, no one deserves to hurt everyday, I honestly mean this to each of us. Yours Truly...

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Curios in Cali, if u can stick with the hydrocodone. I was on Percocet and or hydrocodone for years. Then in 2012 got put on morphine ER, now Percocet is my breakthrough.
Wish I could have stayed with the just the Norco and Percocet
My best wishes to you

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Curios in Cali , yes morphine stopped my menstrual cycles at the age of 40, I'm 41 now, it definitely changes chemistry, all these opiods do.

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No, No , No. The FDA has laws in effect that any generic medication of any kind HAS to be the SAME strength, effect, and bioavailability, etc. as the brand name version. So it's all in people's heads that a generic medication isn't as good as the brand name counterpart. With people saying, It has a different color or shape from what I'm used to taking. They are all WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. Look it up for yourself at the FDA website.

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Cory, look up The Hatch-Waxman act of 1984 passed by our FDA and educate yourself.

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I do not need to educate myself. I'm a Pharmacy Technician and had to study medicine, pharmaceutical laws and the such. Most people are ignort of such thing. Sorry to bust your bubble.

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Cory,
Only a narcissist won't admit they are wrong when confronted with the truth of their errors. Ignorance is obviously bliss in your case.

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Cory, right off the bat I think you're delusional to believe or trust the FDA. Please read, and you'll see they're tampering with controlled drugs to reduce the efficacy and to discourage tampering, of course. Read through the lines if you dare.

google.com/patents/WO2015103379A1

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Yes, I am exspirencing the same problem with these pills also, only in the last 3 months, they are not as effective as they once where,although they never stopped the pain, but did comfort it some what, customers should be made aware of any changes such as this through the manufacturer or the pharmacist I would think, it is the customer best interest here I would think.

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I think they do exactly what they are suppose to do. I take them to relieve pain, and they do just that. I think people are upset about the change because they are not getting that energy boost/high like they do with the yellow watsons....I'm glad about the change maybe there won't be as many people stung out on them

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Thank you so much Chaos and I hope all is going well for you

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Hi I'm going through the same thing I just had knee replacement surgery the first one blew out within a weak so I had to have a second surgery on the same knee had been on percocet called the Dr for a refill he secretly changed the MED's to Watson 853's so I was not getting any pain relief so I started taking 2at a time still no relief next thing I know I was throwing up blood and going through withdraws I am very sick low body temp then fever diarea and so on I'm currently on disability due to injuries since 2003 had been on norco 10/325's since they helped in easing the pain but these new one's do nothing but are making me very sick have been through withdraws before these are the worst I don't know what's up but am very angry

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There is definitely a difference in the 325. Not effective. Also 325/10 not effective. I've been taking these pills for 10 years. I thought I was crazy that I'm still in pain but after reading all this other input WHAT IS GOING ON?

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Everyone on here is absolutely right. They think we are pill junkies so they really dont care but when you have chronic pain as I do then you know the difference. And one more thing I would like to add is that they may be right about oxys and roxys leading to something such as illicit drugs if they cant get their drug after doctors have had them on this certain medication for years. But just let me point out, why are they so hard on people who use hydrocodone?

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