New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!? (Page 15)
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Hello all, I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong. Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc. The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way. I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread. TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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Its not been that long I actually messed my own self up as I listened to some people thinking I had no clue what subutex was an they said you can go get put on these an all your pain an suffering will be gone, all would be better. so I would not have to take all those pain meds, that subutex is all I need. so I did nothing wrong to or at my doctors office. went to this place to get put on subutex. I was told I'd get the script an be at home. I got there, did the process, seen a doctor, then got a number an got taken to the end of a long line. I had to drive 100 miles to get there, then dose there and then drive 100 miles back home. they told me they take medicaid an medicare but lie #2 cost me $1134.00 a month cash. I get a monthly check an have a family of 4 an get $889.00 a month. I made it 3 months an I just could not do it an I was in pain so bad so its then I found out it was to get off opiate's an they meant the emotional pain not all my pain problems. so by then I'm in so much pain I had fell due to nerve damage. my left leg gives out a lot an I fall, I'm supposed to use a cane. well the place I went to was dirty, got shut down. they found out that the doctor had ppl going there an also he had another office family medicine office an he had ppl going to both giving out scripts of any meds you could buy. so they caught them shut both office's down an found baby and child porn on his computers. not saying all the women he slept with for meds also. so he got put in jail an what he deserves. so I go back to my doctor an had to start at the bottom again an as he was getting me back to get my pain under control he got me back on the oxycontin Er an roxicodone ir. he retired an a new female doctor didn't want to write what I had been on for over 10 years with no problems. I never abused my needed meds. she cut me more than in half so I got to go with what I can but its one hell of a true life story. I lived it an now I'm still suffering from a ton of lies an no paperwork an its not found in the database so it was a waste of some of my life an I'm paying for 1 doctors nasty dirty mistakes and I hope the inmates show him how it feels. Sorry so long and to anyone make sure things are legit before making any changes. Thanks.

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BL- where do I research such information ? I want to follow any and all. Please give me the start as to where I go to read up on all of this.
Thanks

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I just came from my pain management doctor visit today. I point blank asked him, what is going on with the quality of narcotic analgesics these days? He told me that for years now the government has been funding the pharmaceutical industry to create narcotic analgesics that can't be abused and these watered down versions are the result. He also said that because of this people who abuse the drugs are taking huge amounts causing overdose deaths to be 10 fold higher and the government is trying to hide this fact. My doctor was kind of upset about the government tying his hands by inferior pain medications with ridiculous prescribing guidelines. He said, they weaken the drugs effectiveness and then say to prescribe a lessor amount to the patients. It's just ridiculous. He also said, that this has been happening in 12 to 20 year cycles. They crack down, then all the unintended consequences come to light. Meaning people needlessly suffering and the next generation of politicians lessen the restrictions and allow doctors to treat the pain as medically necessary. Right now we're on the down swing which will last till politicians are out of office who started the down swing. I've been in pain management 27+ years and know exactly what my doctor is talking about. I've seen it change 2 times, this is my second down swing.

Like I've said numerous times before, anytime the government gets involved in anything the innocent will always needlessly suffer. We're the victims of their failed policies! The innocent ones here are the severe chronic pain sufferers. Instead of going after crooked doctors and drug addicts they go after the easiest target US! I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, my doctor told me that no matter what prescribing guidelines they come up with that he would never lessen my dosages and could easily justify it and other doctors and the medical board would back him! But most people are going to see a reduction in their medication regime or a discontinuation of all long term narcotic medications. Other posters on here are right about new ridiculous prescribing guidelines and it's coming fairly soon, depending on the state you're in... Sorry to have such bad news for people who already are needlessly suffering, but it is going to get alot worse before it gets better... I'm very sad and upset about this! I'll be getting what I need, but most people won't be. My wife just came in while I was writing this and could see my crocodile tears and ask me what was wrong... I told her it's for the people who are going to take their lives because they can't live with the pain and all because of the *****s who run this country who are clueless about everything thing they do... Severe Chronic Pain Sufferers Lives Matter Too, but unfortunately a low life means more these days...

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Switch to IP 110 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone 325 mg / 10 mg) the other is bogus. Hope helps. Being bed ridden is not fun... I know

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I am am also feeling the swimming head, headaches like I have never had before and feeling like I can't even stay awake

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How about a petition on change.org? I've seen good things come out of this site? What do u guys think? Who is well versed to write a proper petition up? We can't speak outta anger but instead facts and the repercussions of the FDA meddling in our medication? Just a thought.

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jan, Good Luck with trying to get chronic pain patients organized. They have plenty of excuses as to why they, their family, friends, etc can't be vocal and visable, but that's about it. Sounding off on the internet and just contacting politicians won't do any good. It is going to worse because the laws are going to get stricter and drs are going to become more reluctant to prescribe opiates for chronic pain, especially in younger people.

What is happening now didn't come about over night. But few chronic pain patients will invest the time and energy into reading, learning and staying up to date in federal and state laws and guidelines. And a few won't change anything.

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Has anyone tried getting the media, TV, lawyers or other groups together? We can talk on this site but we need to get this information out there. The CDC is going to lower the doses again next year...pretty soon you won't be able to get any pain meds at all. You'd think there would be some docs who are not happy with being told by the government what they can prescribe, would be willing to stand up for their patients.

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Hey queeniek the pharmaceutical company I think you're trying to say is Mallinckrodt and they make some of the worst narcotic analgesics I have ever taken for my severe chronic pain. I've taken their Percocet and Norco generics and they have all most zero effect on my pain. Anyone who says they actually work aren't in severe chronic pain. I've complained to the FDA, pharmacies and doctors only to be treated like I'm the only one who has an issue with the medications, but we all on here know the truth about what they've done due to loser drug abusers. It's not that the active ingredient has been reduced to say 8mg because I used to be able to take 1/2 of a 10/325 Norco and get some pain relief, but now I could take 2 of these new white 10/325 Norcos and get almost ZERO pain reduction. If that's not proof of a weakened analgesic, then I don't know what more proof anyone would need. Those of you out there know exactly what I'm saying who have the misfortune like myself who have to take this stuff to tolerate being alive in our broken bodies... I had an epidural abcess from L4 to S1 from a back surgery 27 years ago. Made worse by having me on IV steroids for 10 days with the infection. I'm lucky that I'm alive and not paralyzed from the waist down, but my spinal cord and nerves at 3 levels are covered with a massive amount of scar tissue that can't be removed because of where it is. Until I abuse the privilege of having these narcotic analgesics to combat my severe chronic pain I shouldn't be subjected to watered down narcotic analgesics nor treated as a drug seeker by any health care professional with an ounce of common sense and the government has absolutely NO business making policies or decisions about my course of medical treatment by any doctor or going to pharmaceutical companies and having them lessen the quality of the actual active drug ingredient.
If we complain, we all get treated like we're the drug seekers and all we want is some reduction in our suffering to have some dignity in our lives. I won't even go to an emergency room anymore for any reason because I'm not going to let anyone treat me like I'm a drug seeker! As soon as they find out the medications I'm on the only possible reason I'm there is for more drugs or I must have injured myself because I was high on my medications or I injured myself to get more drugs...
Because we're such a small group of people it was real easy for the low down politicians to further ruin our destroyed lives even further without any worry of reprocusions. Because their going after drug abusers which society wants them gone... Until someone can actually get the attention of the news media and keep this in the spot light about how suffering people are made to suffer further because of people who abuse drugs. This is only going to get worse and because the government is behind this... You can bet your life they will do everything thing possible to make sure what all of US are saying will never see the light of day!
Could you imagine how angry normal everyday people would actually be if they knew that suffering human beings were being made to suffer more because of drug abusers and the government was trying to justify making innocent people suffer further because of their failed policies, so they make innocent suffering people suffer more to cover up their broken system...
I can remember 25 plus years ago when doctors were afraid and intimidated as to not prescribe the more powerful schedule II opiates to anyone outside of a hospital without cancer. Then the laws/regulations changed/lessened and doctors started helping people like us have some dignity and quality of life. Now it's going back to what it use to be and on top of it they ruined the drugs themselves and think that lying and denying about what they've done is just fine because it's what the government does about anything they messed up... Basically, we the extreme minority of suffering American citizens are being stuffed in the closet because of a broken system. Cowards will always go after the weakest people first because their unable to defend themselves and be silenced with little to no effort, that would be US :-(...
Some how all of us have to ban together via social media, the Internet and petitions signed by millions of Americans. Me personally I'm in to much pain to get much accomplished these days. 27+ years of suffering has taken its toll on my body and mind. Its taken me 2+ hours to write this. Years ago on the old OC Oxycontin and the old Roxicodone I would have written this in less than 20 minutes. This once again shows how little pain relief we're getting from the government having their hands in the pharmaceutical industry these days. We have all witnessed their ruining Healthcare and then touting how great of a job they've done=BS. Everytime they tell doctors what to do patients suffer=Fact.
I can only hope and pray that someone with actual integrity will get elected and see this injustice that has been done to suffering Americans and right this wrong, but I fear that since we're such an extreme minority that our plight will continue to fall on deaf ears...
It makes me incredibly angry and sad that I actually live in a country that has now placed a higher priority towards loser drug addicts than helping suffering people=Odumbo!
I'm sure the government has a new one sided totally blind study to say none of us should be on any narcotic analgesics long term for any reason, but you can bet your life if any politician is suffering they'll get the best of everything and as much as they want!
I wish help and comfort to all of you who are suffering more these days because of coward politicians who have attacked our quality of life because of loser drug abusers...

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Ken, when is the last time that UVA put in writting 360 Roxicodone Immedicate Release 12 a day and 60 mg Oxycontin Er 2 a day, 60 a month? The FDA Guidelines say not more than 120 mg Morphine/Morphine Equivalent Daily. I seriously doubt that you will find any dr anywhere that will prescribe you 60 mg Oxycontin ER twice a day and 360 Roxicodone 12 a day again. The new dr is jjust going by the FDA Guidelines.

The Yellow Vicodin along with many other medications had the dye that gave them a certain color removed because of common allergies that many people have several years back. So if you specifically asked for yellow vicodin after the color was removed, they no longer made them because they are now white.

If you gave a pharmacist a prescription for Norco 10 mg with 500 mg Tylenol (Norco 10/500) close to Jan 2014, they might have said that they no longer made it, which is correct. But, what they didn't tell you is that they still make Norco 10 mg it just no longer has 500 mg Tylenol. It is important to pay attention to details.

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Hello BL I'm in with painmanagement at UVA also that's were my head spine doctor is an they are 2to3hours from me were I live they sent a recommendation letter to my family doctor were I live since I have no transportation so my family doctor had a license to give pain meds so he said OK to treat me by them at first I was on high doses from them they had me on 360 roxicodone ir 12a day an 2 60mg oxycontin Er 60amonth he retired the new doctor out me on 120 15 mg roxicodone ir an 2 20mg oxycontin 60a month an the I was on high doses for over 10years so really the only reason I got cut is the new women doctor didn't want to write that many so till I can find another doctor to write it UVA will send that doctor the okay if I can't find a doctor to write them I'd have to drive to UVA every 28days an they will write the scripts but I have seen a been ripped off by a couple pharmacy's also when I was on the norcos an even now I had a deal with the Morphine I was on I got the wrong type 1month it was a big round purple instead of the small a purple abg so nurse an doctor told me I had a right to ask what med I'm getting to tell the pharmacy's on the type that works an I don't want the one's I got last time I want the small round purple abg I did an they ordered them also I was told to check an count them before I leave that pharmacy an I did an now I get what works an I'm not shorted anymore an I hope this helps some as I told them what I was told bye my doctors an nurses an IV not been labeled a junkie or addict just a person in pain an want what works an not get shorted while getting the right med an it all worked out for me an I wish all of you in legitimate pain not abuse or calling in early I'm in pain 24/7 you have rights let your doctors no how you are treated an hopefully you all will get the hell you need hope this helps Ken

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BL- i had a reaction to the 'filler' in Norco by Millkrofot (spelling ?) and when I tried to discuss this with the pharmacist.. He said they were all the same different name. I just had to laugh. That is where all my research started from- when CVS quit carrying Qualitest and moved to the other and I got migraines. Through my research- yes each company is only to hold the active ingredient their fillers can differ. Also my friend is a head nurse- from him his friends are doctors & pharmacist. He inquired for me when I was having trouble finding yellow Norcos (anywhere & everywhere) and he told me that the pharmacist friend told him that he had attended a conference and Norco were a topic of discussion. Apparently the FDA was cracking down on this particular medication because of drug abusers & over doses that have the death rate up. Also that they were attempting to remove the yellow Norcos off the market because there what the drug addicts seek out. Hence when I would go to a pharmacy and ask what brand they looked at me crazy and simply dismissed me, as if I were a junkie requesting a free high!!
All this is what it has come to. I don't think any of it will ever change back:(
I myself went to my doctor and asked to be switched because of all this and the way I was being treated when I was only trying to find the kind of medication that worked.
To everyone in the blog post- we suffer and it sucks. If you can see if your doctor can try and change.. Something. To be in pain all the time is simply unacceptable.

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I complained to the FDA. My pharmacist and was told by both that it was just me and they had no complaints and both pretty much blamed me and said I was alleric to my medication that I've been taking for years and never had a problem with it before. They both also referred me to go back to my Dr. To find an alternative. To me this is my answer that something is not right!!!!!

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Anyone can say I'm a doctor like me but I'm not going to believe till its verified and some type of proof. say I'm a real Dr Ken hear speaking an I am a just a person that has some knowledge on these types of meds as I suffer in pain 24/7 an I don't abuse it. I'm on it for legitimate reasons an I know tons of people that are in no pain like us that aren't. Also these people all are doing it and then getting way more than me and I need my meds to get by everyday. Its crazy cause us that need help are being punished all because of those people that don't take them or the people that are junkies, they are messing everything up an its not right for people. I need my meds an the new doctor I got cut my meds I was on for over 10yrs in half, now I get hardly nothing but these people are still living the high dollar life while we suffer, its just not fair

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If a generic says that it has 10 mg of an active ingredient, it can have 8 mg- 12 mg of that active ingredient. With brands if it says 10 mg, 10 mg is what it has. There are also different fillers used which affects how the medications are absorbed and effect you. I seems that the manufacturers are leaning towards the 8 mg when it comes to hydrocodone combination medications. I think that up until the past few years they may have been leaning more towards the 12 mg. That would explain it, along with the varies fillers that they use.

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Well after reading the below post (DrD).. I think we can all agree that what we believed to be true this entire time about our Hydrocodone (Norco) is in FACT true. No more guessing. The FDA has changed the medication....tampered/adjusted the effect of the IR!!! ( I do understand that just because someone says they r a Dr doesn't mean it is necessarily true..but his post confirmed our questions) I mean we all have known this.. We can tell by simply taking the ineffective meds! They don't work!!! We r all now taking pain medication that doesn't relieve the pain?!? Really??? This is horrible. They wanted to call it removing the 'wasted effect'?? I would rather call it removing it being 'effective'!!!! The medication isn't the same ,(as the dr confirmed) they removed some key ingredients and every one who is in pain can tell. So this post basically confirmed what we all have been saying all along. There r our answers as to what the hell is going on with our medication/Norcos! I find this all so disturbing and so wrong in many ways. But it is what we have all been asking about this entire time, what all these post have been about- us questioning what the hell is going on with our medication!!?!?! We all knew it was different. That's the FDA/Government for you. To have people who are in need of pain medication because they r in chronic pain and now get medication which doesn't work- all because they (FDA) is trying to curb drug addiction? Where is the justice there/here??

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It is important to remember that credentials are not verified at MedsChat. Just because someone claims to be something, does not mean they are.

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Ditto. Found Watson 10/325 hydrocodone totally ineffective. Had to go to true Vicoden.

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Anyone who is actually in chronic pain knows unequivocally that they have ruined narcotic analgesics because of drug abusers! We who actually have to take this stuff know that it's far less effective on pain than it use to be and that's an undeniable fact! This so called wasted effect has to be the biggest load of BS that I've heard to date. Sounds like another government funded study that always gets the same outcome which is a load of BS the government wants to parade around and shove down our throats! Like I said before anyone in chronic pain unequivocally knows that narcotic analgesics have been tampered with to be less effective because of drug abusers. Those of us in actual severe chronic pain are tired of the government, the FDA and blind doctors peeing on our feet and telling us it's raining! Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows what is going on and government funded studies are the biggest joke in our country today! The wasted effect is the government's attempt at more deception toward suffering human beings which unequivocally proves just how low down people are on this government funded bandwagon! We all know when the government gets involved in anything the innocent always suffer and this is NO different! When Odumbo is gone so are all these government funded BS studies, the only thing that's double blind is anyone who believes this load of BS! Talk about wasted effect!

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Dr.D, I don't understand what you are saying. What do you mean by wasted effect? If the doctor is trying to help patient with pain,why is this okay with the physician?
If you believe some people really have chronic pain,it seems the physician would want to be an advocate for the patient. Clearly it is not the same medication that relieves pain.

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