New White Watson 853 10/325 Problem - What Is Going On!?

Hello all,

I am a longtime chronic pain sufferer. I have taken opiates for pain for over 10 years. I recently got a prescription filled (from a well known pharmacy chain in the U.S.) and I was given these new Watson 853 white (not yellow) hydro 10/325 pills. I wanted to ask the forum here if any of you have had the same experience with them as I have. I know there are some very smart people with advanced chemistry knowledge here that may have delved deeper into whats going on with these things. They are ineffective for me. I've taken hydrocodone 10/325 for 10+ years and have never ever had a problem with pills being ineffective but that is the case with these pills. I've had about every brand you can think of and never an issue. Ever. I thought nothing of the color change when I got the pills home from the pharmacy... I've had the yellow Watson 853's before and figured they just changed the coloring. I've seen people complain before about differences in brands before, but I've never experienced anything like that.... Mallies, Watson, Qualitst... all the same to me. I didn't start looking around for answers until I noticed these pills were not working well at all. Something is 100% wrong.

Based on some initial research I do see that they have taken the yellow dye out but there are other reports from people with the same issues as I see. Obviously you just don't know how reputable some of these reports are... I've seen posts talk about pharmacists telling the patient that the pills now are structured to release hydrocodone slower (even though its an IR pill... what?)... that Actavis/Watson employees have claimed there could be "kinetic imbalances" in their formulation when upset customers have called them... etc.

The only truth I know is that there is something amiss with these things. Any response would be appreciated from you guys.... experiences/info/links to other similar reports, etc. This is the most frustrating thing I have ever run into and it just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment with whats going on....and the implications this could have if these pills have been truly altered by the manufacturer in some way.

I know it doesn't mean much to just say it on an internet forum, but I'm not the type to cry wolf over something like this. I realize it could be a bad batch I've received, but it looks initially like the problem is more widespread.

TIA for any responses to this thread! I came here because I believe this site has people that have the intelligence/knowledge to get to the bottom of it. Again, any info at all in relation to this would be appreciated greatly.

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REPORT

At this point, they are still claiming to have only removed the dye…..but from your post, as well as many others, it does seem that something else has been changed.

There were very similar problems when the Oxycontin formulation was changed to help prevent abuse, it just didn't seem to work as well for many people and it was also found to cause very unusual side effects.

I wish I could get to the bottom of it, but without them listing any changes in the ingredients, there's no way to do so, at this time. They are listing everything to be the same, just sans the coloring agents.

Learn more Vicodin details here.

I wish I had more information for you, but at this time, I do not. However, I will keep searching for more details and post back, when I do have info on it.

Does anyone else know anything new?

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No change for me in day 2 of taking this medication. I'm 100% certain that something has changed and I think you are on the right track in that they may have added something to discourage abuse of the medication.... just like what happened with changing the OxyContin formula.

Here is the problem though. OxyContin was extended/timed release in the first place.This medication is instant release. It's purpose is to help with breakthrough pain. It really does seem like they have altered it to curtail the instant release or have decreased the amount of hydrocodone in it. I think its the former as they could get into a lot of trouble easier if they were fraudulently labelling it as 10 mg hydrocodone. They have to be within 20% of what is labelled.

I think you are right on the money with suggesting that the release mechanism of the pill has been altered. I have taken slow-release medication and it feels like this is what these pills are. The problem is that for people who need breakthrough pain medication, many need instant release. I need it and this medication doesn't cut it.... it's garbage.... and its supposed to be instant release. I really hope I don't have to get switched to oxycodone because of this. The sad truth is that is what is going to happen to countless pain sufferers because of this outrageous BS.... something that has worked great for many people for many years is going to have to be substituted for something much stronger. Part of me believes the alteration of this pill is designed just for that purpose... maybe to get everyone switched over to the new instant release hydrocodone product that is going to hit the market soon if it already hasn't. The one without any compounding of acetaminophen... just straight hydrocodone. Think of how many pockets could get lined over that kind of thing.

If this is what they have done, its just as fraudulent as decreasing the amount of hydrocodone in the product.

We need an analysis done on the contents of the medication and someone with some pharmaceutical/chemistry expertise who can identify any ingredient that would act as a timed release agent.

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I have just been given the "white" version about 15 days ago. After almost 20 years! I AM IN PAIN! I hurt so bad I have to stay in bed all day. What the Hell is going on?

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I agree. Not only did I.suffer through the past 3 weeks with my month worth of 10/325, but I decided along with my excellent physician, that I would prefer reducing the milligram to 7.5/325..as I have been taking this medication 10/325 for several years due to severe disc disease and two recent knee surgeries. My reason for reducing mg, is to wean off. It has become extremely difficult to pick up my med every month, I use the same pharmacy, they switched to white Watson norco which was extremely noticeable in its effectiveness, and I am tired of battling pharmacies. I took new rx for LOWER mg norco 7.5/325 to same Walgreen s I've been filling monthly pain med. Not only did I sit in pain, for 45 minutes until finally having to get back up and ask if it was ready, but immediately I had two pharmacists in front of me telling me I could not fill my medication yet. I asked why, and was told to "cut my other week remaining pills in half"
I explained I still had pain, and cutting 10/325 in half =5/175. Not 7.5/325.. so, no it's not the same. " yes it is" yelled the rude pharmacist.I had never seen him and he was new or filling in. The other pharmacist mouthed" you going to dump the other stronger ones..". in a degrading manner.
My doctor called, arguing with them and they refused to fill but wouldn't give prescription back.im complaining to corporate about this, btw..but to my original point..I'm afraid there are new changes..they are not working as long or even nearly as well. Something terrible is going on, especially when they won't even release a lower mg ( however, they processed it through my insurance) and lied to me. Well, today I'm suffering minor withdrawal due to generics. I can definitely state it's a difference in generic as well as a change in generic white Watson from the past two days experience. I was given duplicate rx of 7.5 & went to a different pharmacy. They were great in processing my rx, arguing with Walgreen s to release their rx that they billed my insurance for but wouldn't give me, confirmed that my doc rewrote rx..and filled it. I received the m366 generic..took it and noticed I felt a bit off. Today I felt worse so I did following test..one 10/325 Watson generic white did not last as long but did help somewhat just made me nauseous and groggy. Unfortunately, the m366 generic 7.5/325 not only did nothing for pain but started to have withdrawal. So on next dose I took two(which in directions it said I could) doing the math, that equals 15mg of hydrocodone and 650of acetaminophen...so why did it still only help barely for pain and do the same relief duration as the 10/325 white Watson!!!# they both are horrible..both generic..this is what is happening to us that truly need this drug. Im miserable right now and stuck. After yesterday ordeal, I just want to quit this ugly med. It used to help...now they treat us like criminals..I wasn't the only one very upset at Walgreen..I state which pharmacy because they all are becoming sick.that chain has turned into thieves of pharmacists quick to make money, but act like doctors and override doctor orders even when on phone with them.embarrassing and they haven't heard last from me. Im exhausted from pain..and now this...what do we do to find help or quality legit medicine that hasn't been altered and cheaply made.??

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I think it's vicoden. Watson makes vicodens & I've never seen Watson produce NorCo. In reading many of the above posts I so think that laboratories are making these pills less strong ( like a placebo effect). Then they're secretly laughing & judging those in pain thinking that they are getting their same pain pills, but they're not the same. They blame it on high tolerance but after weeks of not taking 10 mg and then finally getting the prescription, I took one and it did absolutely nothing. My Motrin worked better than that.

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Just as a fresh update, i have no tolerance and i took 20mg of the white 853 and felt nothing, 30 mins later i took 2 more (now at 40mg) 30 mins later i again took 2 more (now at 60mg) its now been 2 hours and 60mg later and i feel NOTHING. These pills are fake straight from the manufacturer

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Watson 10/325. White oblong pill with watson 853. Sub for Nor . I know I was on 10/325 loritabs. Seems like I still hurt seems like a lot more w headaches , nausea , dizzieness . Just noticed script reads "appre" Hy / Ace 10/325 T. What does the T stand for , I don't recall seeing a T on script before Are these two meds same. I just know I dont feel well . Didnt last month neither but was under a lot if stress ..

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I heard this was some kind of sting operation by the d.e.a. is that true

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get away from watson brand and walgreen drug stores. and never listen to what the pharmacist tells you because there is a big chance that you know more than he does about this medicine. too many pharmacist think they are doctors. so do not argue with them. if you argue with these i****s they will bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience. i suggest going to another drug store and try another brand such as qualitest. these are a lot better than that watson scrap you get at walgreens.

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I just got a script of these Watson 853 and I haven't taken a narcotic in over 6 years. I took one of these and have gotten no relief. I am suffering from carpel tunnel. They make me tired and swimmy headed is all. It's almost like I'm taking a sleeping pill. Something is definitely wrong with these new pills.

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IDK if this is relevant but it almost killed my mother in law 3 days ago and then my daughter's aunt who is 70. takes them just exactly as prescribed and were I live the police are A**holes yet they are putting her in jail due to overdosing herself. that is just bs. this is scary to me because it's screwed up if the government is doing this to prevent people from abusing. we all no when a real abusive addict can't get one thing they are getting something else. it's sad the government is killing people. also why are they having the effects of xanax? something is not right. it's a legal case if you get these prescribed. fight tooth and nail please. my mother in law almost died

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I'm with you something is amiss. Not the same mediation.

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My prescription for 10/325 hydrocodone has not been working. It is Watson brand. ??? I have severe RA and am not able to walk without cutting the pain.

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Yea, certain norcos do have less hydrocodone because as a generic they have a 1.5mg of leniency. Aka. A 10mg Norco generic may only have 8.5mg of actual hydrocodone in it-

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I agree 100% these pills do not have the same effect I just took 3 at one time and it's been over a hour and still I have not felt anything.

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I I'll never go back to any Walgreen's. They were always very slow, rude, condescending, and treated me like a criminal because I had hydrocodone script filled every month. I've been on hydrocodone since 1999 and cannot get out of bed with out it. Just wanted to agree with this person and say that Walgreen's Sucks! And the new 10/335 Watson generics don't work for me either. Insteadnof going to something stronger, I am going to ask my very competent doctordoctor to switch me to percocet. Over the years I have discovered that switching betweenbetween Lortabs and percocets usually works. But back to Walgreen's...don't go there! They only care about the money and themselves.

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Walgreens claims they have not had any complaints about this medication, which I find hard to believe! I thought I built up a tolerance, but had a few yellows and realized I was going to suffer for a month because Walgreens doesn't care. What pharmacy still carries the yellow ones? I have been trying to move away from Walgreens - horrible customer service - I am counting the days to my next refill @ a new pharmacy -

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Yes I couldn't agree with you more. These ones actually make you very sleepy and tired like you took a sleeping pill!!

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Yes I've had the same problem with the white Narco. Yellow ones are the only ones that work to relieve pain. My pharmacist said this is a common complaint of patients no longer getting the pain relief. To be honest...I think big pharma has something to do with it...hate to sound like a conspiracy weirdo but because of the high incidence of addiction, I think they are trying to slowly take it off the market. They are definitely putting different kinds of fillers as well as the pain killer part.

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WOW .. I am so glad I read these comments. Although I don't take these particular painkillers, I have had so much trouble concerning another painkiller made by Watson Activis. Either they didn't work at all, or a couple of batches made me feel sick. I spoke to Walgreens and Activis, and they said nothing was changed by the manufacturer. BOLONEY !! I know my body and what works for me and Watson Activis pills are not the same anymore. My next refill will be from another manufacturer, either Breckenridge or Qualitest. Does anyone know which is better?

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Re: Sandy (# 5)

Wats 853 yellow
And the 853 white then the darn v3601 bright yellow shortage - my doc said that all yellow mends affect
Me best and now prescribes my bars by actavis (yellow 2mg ir) well shoot everything but for the qualitiest 10/325s which my very reputable physician saw in all of his patients some had better effects with white while some didn’t notice while about another 3rd had withdraw

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Re: Verwon (# 1)

None of the pharmacies around me carry Qualitest or Watson any more. They only have Mallinckrodt and it’s about 50% less effective. It sucks. Like younive been in hydrocodone for over 10 years, never had a problem with effectiveness until The brand change. I guess they would rather have us suffer safely.

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Re: Tootie (# 3)

Sorry for your pain. I'm living with major pain myself. Something needs to change

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Re: Tootie (# 3)

I have never been given any "white" Norco that has worked for me. Never. There is something about them and my body, they are not effective for me. Of course, I have for years taken the yellow ones and suddenly I get the white ones and they are generic hydrocodone. I cannot do generic on most medications for some reason and I can tell you in a "blind" test which one is generic. For a long time my Doctor questioned my problem with them, but we did a little test and she was then convinced that I was telling the truth. Back to the white Norco. I started taking them yesterday and I am in horrible pain. I believe I would get more relief from Tylenol at this point. I just called my Pharmacy about these pills and decided to look further into this pill. I ran across the post above and now it is beginning to make sense. I hope someone can help find out the problem. This is totally NOT RIGHT!!!

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Re: Robin (# 358)

I just now have seen your post. I have had ongoing digestive problems, quite severe, for a good yr if not a little longer. Symptoms being nausea, major bloat, off and on, along with not able to eat much, as I get so full eating a quarter of a sandwich, feels like I just ate a huge Thanksgiving dinner. My Dr ordered evaluations n sent me to specialist, (gastroenterologist). Colonoscopy and stomach scope was performed. Results said only a small hernia between esophagus, n where the stomach meets. Specialist insisted that the hernia was too small to cause my symptoms. I was so discouraged not getting any answers. I then went to another gastroenterologist, which was a worse experience than the first one seen. This specialist outright blamed a all my problems on the opioid pain pill. I have taken it many yrs. So I didn't understand how out of nowhere it would cause me to bloat n retain so much fluid. Nausea constant n vomiting mire often than not. I wouldn't have any warning when I was going to be sick. As well as experiencing ungodly pain in court my stomach. Weight fluctuating where I back n forth from size 0-2 to size 4-5 and not being comfortable in the 5's because the stomach blows up so large. Is gradually tapering down taking a probiotic twice a day. Now I am able to eat a piece if chicken and handful of fries or half cup of mashed potatoes, however it's a gradual process where I can't eat it all in one sitting. Because of the fullness so quickly, so it takes me several hrs to eat that amt of food. The specialist couldn't find me answers. So I just deal with it. I get really hungry and for some reason to drink milk, it goes down so much easier. I don't get full on it, like food effects me. Actually started when the Norco was changed to a different brand. I didn't put that together until reading your post.

Is anyone else out there experiencing any similar symptoms since changing brands and/or drug manufacturers, along with the medicine not being effective anymore, since the opioid epidemic started? We all need to speak out. Those of us living with chronic pain, that is going to continue and possibly get worse as time goes on, depending what each individual condition or injury is because it's not an option for the majority of us to not have pain med if we want to function. It's not helping us with the companies changing the medicine, whatever they're doing to it. I am glad to know it's not just me experiencing this. Come on all. There is strength in numbers. We have to be not only heard, but listened to. For most chronic pain sufferers, addiction to a pain medicine isn't a concern because we have to have it to live and function with the physical pain. It's not going to go away for a lot of us. We shouldn't be singled out due to the strength of Norco being changed by the companies. It is wrong. Must be a better way to correct the problem with the ppl on streets getting ahold of it for recreation. I don't understand that. I take four a day. When the Norco weren't messed with, they did give some relief. My blood pressure is high now because of pain. Norco, Watson and the m367 are even worse.

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Re: Lynn Pain (# 370)

I am so relieved to know that I am not psychologically crazy, which I was beginning to question. Last yr my Norco medicine was changed from yellow to white. Was explained to me that many are allergic to the dye coloring in them. At that time, over yr ago, there was a small difference in the effectiveness, but however, I was able to tolerate the pain, as I also took Excedrin in-between doses. Also chalked it up to completely eliminating the fentanyl patch on my own when I had a person attempt to break into my home, knowing I was across the street at church.

She tried breaking in knowing my dog bites, (is a whole nother nightmare). However back to the Norco. This year, several months back, Norco was changed to Watson. I seriously questioned if my Dr or pharmacy lowered the strength or even put placebos in my script. Well this last month, my pharmacy changed brands without telling me, where I could've had an option to take my script to a diff pharmacy. This brand is mellicrift (not spelled correctly), but I'm sure u know what I'm talking about. Different binders in them and my system isn't absorbing the pain med. My Dr told me to try ibuprofen with the pain pill to help the medicine work. This month has been awful. Every pain pill. I take 4 a day. I have to take 800 mg of ibuprofen with each one, along with Excedrin or more ibuprofen in-between every dose as well. I literally have taken a total of 60 ibuprofen, since filling my script, along with 30 Excedrin, and I have 10 more days to go before I can have another month's prescription. Soon as I thought my pain med couldn't get any worse, because as I said earlier, they definitely did something with the Watson pain pill, several months back, in my area anyway. But thus month has been the worst.

I have a hangman's break in my neck, a 7'in screw literally in my neck, with the odontoid peg fractured n spreading through my body along with a fractured skull and spinal cord damage from a car accident in 2005 and in 2008, close to 09, that I even knew I existed. Got my records to even know what happened. Was 9-10-05, two a.m. that accident happened. Neck surgery performed, and discharged 9-14-05. Usually for a much less severe broken neck surgery a person is kept in the hospital for six weeks or longer. Also had hemorrhaging in the brain, place that controls coordination, expressiveness, organization. Specialist told me I was far luckier than most, if u want to call it that. Said most all ppl with injury, hemorrhaging in that area of the brain remain clueless. Never know they are here and alive.

The ppl out there abusing n selling pills are destroying the help for us people that truly do suffer with real chronic ongoing pain. There are more of the ppl abusing the medicine than evidently there are of us who are suffering worse than what we already were. I just pray that somehow my liver n stomach can last another 10 days. My pain wasn't controlled to begin with. I have asked Dr many times to change the Norco to something else that would really help control my pain. I haven't had any dang life because I suffer so terrible with the pain. Am already 56, am running out of time to accomplish all the things I want n need to. Instead live in my house isolated and in pain, missing life and work, everything. Now they're screwing with the little bit of relief I had.

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I have been taking this medication Narco since 05 for chronic pain for neck and back and I suffer from muscle spasms, and there is a difference between the yellow and the white.I have to take white all through the day to relieve pain,where I can take 4 at the most of the yellow and have a very comfortable day! I got refilled today with some white pills and I know its going to be a long month!! There's a big difference!!!

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i experienced lack of effectiveness w the 7.5s the efficacy has been terrible. whatever filler they using is bunk.

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The problem is Watson pharmaceutical was bought out by Activis that is the problem. I too have suffered for many years and was taking the percocet 10mg/325 mg which worked really well to manage my pain until I could no longer get the normal Watson brand or the Malincrocrft brand. Everyone starred pushing these pills from Activis or Amneal Pharmaceutical which doesn't work. I went through withdrawals taking it. No one wants to listen they think your a damn junkie and you don't know what you are talking about it but I was fortunate enough a very nice pharmacist that worked for CVS actually wrote me a note saying that the binders used in the manufacturing from Activis and Amneal doesn't agree with me and I was lucky enough to find another pharmacy that carries the Malincrocrft brand that I having been using for over a year now without interruption but I did have to drop down to the 7.5 / 325 to keep the Malincrocrft brand otherwise it would be the Amneal or Activis brand. These pharmaceutical companies are supposed to be using the same ingredients but I know fir sure after going through withdrawal several times they aren't and no one seems to give a crap. I psychological twice the money using the pharmacy I use but I don't want to chance getting stuck with the ones that don't work and being sick so I gladly pay more every month so I don't .

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My best recommendation is to change pharmacies for a different brand. Stay away from walgreens because they carry them. I've had better luck with CVS. There's something wrong with those Watson white 853. There's either not enough hydrocodone in them or more realistically the buffer is to hard pressed that they don't activate the right way. Which is why is makes it seem like a weak time release. I contacted Actavis, and seems that don't want to here it. So just stay away from Actavis made products altogether. They won't be able to stay a float. Then they lose. You the consumer have more power then you think. Don't buy their brand. They go away. Just my opinion. Take care, and to all those suffering everyday from pain. My heart goes out to you. Try to stay strong, and resolve issues. You don't have to sit there and take it. I'm for sure not. Keep your head up. Much love.

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