2014 New Pain Medication Laws Dictating To Doctors That They Cannot Prescribe Anything Equivalent 120 Mg Of Morphine Or Higher A Day Per Patient (Page 6)

I was told Friday by my Pain Management Doctor at my monthly appointment that the DEA was implementing a new law dictating to doctors on how much pain medication they could prescribe per patient per day. It could be equal to no more than 120 mg of Morphine per day per patient and they had to comply within 3 months for all of their patients. I am trying to find out as much information on this as possible. I don't know if my Pain Management Doctor is stating fact or if he is just running scared and if he is stating fact, I don't know if this is federal or state (Alabama) mandated. I spoke directly with the Southeastern division of the DEA in Atlanta this morning and they are not aware of any law of this nature coming into effect and I also contacted another pain clinic locally that has never heard of it either. So I have been trying to reach my Pain Management Clinic and get a copy of the law itself so I will know if it's federal or state and if it is an actual law or just a state regulation and if it's even true but so far no one has called me back so I thought I'd try my luck here and see if anyone has heard of this. This really has me bothered. It looks like either way, true or not, to get adequate pain care I am at least going to have to move out of state if not the entire country. I will ask my questions about that in a different post. But if this is in any way true, and it seems my pain doctor is going to be going by these guidelines whether it is or is not true, it is going to cut my pain meds by almost half. I am on 120 mg of Oxycodone and 8 mg of Dilaudid per day which I was told equals 212 mg of Morphine per day. And before someone decides to tell me that I don't need that much pain medication, I will go ahead and say to you, you don't know me, you don't know what conditions I have that cause me Daily Severe Chronic Pain and other Daily Severe Pain to warrant that much medication, you don't know my tolerance for pain meds, I do NOT take any pain medication to feel high, I ONLY take pain medication to relieve some of the pain as what I am on doesn't even relieve all of my pain, I do NOT drink, I do NOT do street drugs, I see my doctor every 28 days just as I am supposed to, I take my medication as prescribed and the way I am supposed to take it except when I had extreme oral surgery a month ago and I did have to break up my tablets for about a week but they were put on my tongue and NOT up my nose and they were IR tablets so I was fine doing that as I had checked with my pharmacist prior, and you don't feel what I feel or see me lying in bed 24/7 crying from the pain because it is so excruciating and unrelenting so please before anyone starts telling me that I don't need that much pain medicine just stop now before you even start. Those of you that have to live with daily pain will surely understand where I am coming from being this defensive as I'm sure you know you are treated as a drug addict by most doctors even. Thanks in advance for any help with my question.

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Chris, just because somethng isn't against the law does Not mean that a pain dr or any other dr, will treat you or continue to treat you if you break their rules and/or lie to them. Even if you have the bottle and your medical records and a dr can look you up in the Florida PMP and verify that information, that doesn't mean a dr will consider it acceptable. The only thing having the bottle that the med originally came in means is that if for any reason the police were to find one of those tablets in your possession that they more than likely wouldn't arrest you for possessing it without a script. But, if the pills in that bottle don't match what was dispensed, that is a different story. Drug stores keep records on the details of drugs that are dispensed. So it would be easy to check out.

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This is not an official "regulation", it is a "rule" which means it is not technically a law per se but something they can enforce by practice. Each state and certain areas within those states may vary highly as to what the "rules" they are choosing to enforce are. Ther DEA has hundreds of field offices throughout the country and each one functions semi independently. For example, in Houston TX, which is known for its hundreds of "pill doctors" has much tighter rules that they enforce because the rate of abuse is much higher than say...Missoula MT.

The doctor is telling you that it is a law...it isn't technically a law...it is a guideline which the DEA Is making them enforce in your area.

To complicate all that, your state can also make more restrictive laws....

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I would be delighted to see an actual link to a law regarding 120mg of morphine equivalent...issued by the federal government as part of the Code of Federal Regulations that the DEA is to enforce....it does not exist in writing. I am a pharmacist and though they may be telling you so...it is not true....exactly. Please see my other reply

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Wrong, in no state can a pharmacist change a prescription from one drug to another without your doctors permission. If however your doctor is part of an insurance group which says he must use certain drugs, he may have signed a paper that he would allow prescriptions to be change...but in doing so, he gave permission.

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You think so, huh? Post-dating of Controlled Substance scripts, especially C-IIs, is not longer permitted. Hydrocodone is a Schedule II opiate. I might be able to get away with writing 30 scripts in one day ONCE, with the excuse that I'm covering my residents who aren't fully licensed, but only an i**** would believe that. (We have an alternate system —the hospital's DEA Reg No. + the four-digit code assigned to that resident.) A doctor who sees and writes scripts for 30 patients for Hydrocodone in one day is a bad doctor — corrupt, too, Im sure. 30 scripts for the same patient? He can kiss his license and DEA Reg. good-bye FOREVER and expect to do some hard time. Your reasoning is not only specious, but totally unsupported by any facts, regs or citations. If you want to be a pharmacist, go get your B.S. Pharm and R.Ph. (thats the license that enables one to practice pharmacy). Otherwise, don't dispense nonsensical advice — there are some folks who might actually take you seriously.

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MellexRx, 120 Morphine/Morphine Equivalent Daily is the FDA Guidelines, this is Not law. Although most drs are going by it. And unfortunately many drs chose to lie to their patients and tell them that things they do are because of new laws instead of because it is what in their professional judgement is best. Although with the way some chronic pain patients whine and complain I don't really blame the drs.

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Calling people in true pain that are pleading for help whiners and complainers is unfortunately very shallow minded. I have not broken to that point yet however pain that in unbearable 24/7 can wear a person's patients and until you have walked in thier shoes tread lightly on manner of speaking. Also the ones in true pain barely complain. The ones that may not need possibly do.. everyone is individual and only people that are caught breaking any kind of law should be treated like we are being treated now. All of us should not be treated like criminals for having pain we would rather not have. Also the meds have been around how is it that only now after 100 years is it just now dangerously adictive? Sounds like hype to drive price and contol. And impliment death panels on the poor.

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Posters,

As most know my background I need not repeat. MEDCO has been doing this prior to change that was put into effect under the shady auspices of Odummacare. Try it, you'll see it happen. Physicians warn you directly not to call back and use one pharmacy for a reason--they are overwhelmed by the power given pharmacists.

My rare case is being chicken s***ted on by so called physicians who although 120 mg. equivalent is NOT law are too ball (less) to stand up have heard of several other rare patients as myself being left to die.

When the tides turn in a few years we will be dead, you easy guys who need a few pills will get by, not those like me.

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Pharmacist?

If you knew Houston or Montana you'd know Houston is cleaned up years ago before this crap and Montana is one of the driest states in America and harder on those in pain.

Now those on pumps (which I was considering due to this life threatening crisis for me) because physicians are not making enough money doing refills need I say more between paying physicians incentives to let chronic cases die, this is all Odumma.

This is not about the poor either its about prejudice!!

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Chris,

They can ship it out to the lab in Tennessee that does the LE, sports figures and not only get extended knowledge but a fixed report.

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Unfortunately, my friend, state [pharmacy rules and regs have been he;d to have "the Force of Law". I didn't believe it at first either, but as a onetime "Expert Witness," I have friends in overalls DA's offices and they got me an "on paper" binding legal opinion. Unfortunately, we don't get to VOTE for the people who put theses "rues and regs" in place.

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Joey,

If you know a pain specialist I am in dire need I have all records and came from the top specialist in America.

You never got back to me on this I will get on a plane to save my life whats up with all that?

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DrJoeyMDPhD , my apologies. I meant to write that a dr can write up to 3 30 day prescriptions for a Schedule II med without seeing the patient. That would last a patient 90 days. Federal law states that a dr must see a patient at Least once every 90 days if they are taking Schedule II meds for chronic pain.

VALID PRESCRIPTION REQUIREMENTS-(See-Issuance of Multiple Prescriptions for Schedule II Controlled Substances)
http:/­/­www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/­pubs/­manuals/­pharm2/­pharm_content.htm

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I've been trying, but we can't find anyone taking new patients, even from me. I know you have all your docs and your creds are away more impressive than mine, but NYS is like the Sahara when it comes to treating real pain. My CII scripts for opiates are filled in my hospital's pharmacy and they don't look too closely at MY Rxs. I'm going to do a county-by-county search with the help of the NYS Medical Association next.

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Thanks for the link. I've done this a few times myself, so I don't have to look it up. My shrink and old friend has done the same. I WILL NOT ask him to lie and put the ADD/ADHD or Narcolepsy codes on on my Ritalin scripts. (Ritalin boosts my Prozac and Effexor's efficacy; I'm a tough guy to treat,) Thanks for the correction. You understand how that first post sounded, I hope. No hard feelings!

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Thanks, Spyz

Never heard of that procedure. I will check it out on Utube as you suggested! Thanks.

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Thanks, Spyz

Never heard of that procedure. I will check it out on Utube as you suggested! I will also ask about the other drug yoy mentioned if I am ever able to get into a PM doc.

Thanks.

Sylvie

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Regarding Houston...I personally know people from my old neighborhood who make their living by going to pain doctors every single day of the week - I know of 12 individuals who pick up homeless people to take as "patients" to pill docs every day....and who did so every day of LAST WEEK....your information about the pill docs being shut down is simply wrong and frankly delusional. They have been tightened and there are a few hundred less but there are still hundreds there - and hundreds of pharmacies filling prescriptions. As for Montana....it was by comparison as an opposite to Houston.

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BL - The original poster said that they were told it was a REGULATION. I did NOT say this.... in fact I said the opposite. It is a guideline....a rule, which different DEA offices can choose or choose not to decide to pressure docs to comply with their ideas. Many doctors, many pharmacies will say it is a Law to get the patient off their backs. It shuts most patients up and makes them go away as they are powerless to argue. Once again, read my comments and see clearly I said it was NOT a law.

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DrJoeyMDPhD, no hard feelings. I have RA and nerve damage in my hands and sometimes typing is more difficult than at other times. My mind knows what to type but my fingers don't always coorperate.

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