2014 New Pain Medication Laws Dictating To Doctors That They Cannot Prescribe Anything Equivalent 120 Mg Of Morphine Or Higher A Day Per Patient (Page 3)
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I was told Friday by my Pain Management Doctor at my monthly appointment that the DEA was implementing a new law dictating to doctors on how much pain medication they could prescribe per patient per day. It could be equal to no more than 120 mg of Morphine per day per patient and they had to comply within 3 months for all of their patients. I am trying to find out as much information on this as possible. I don't know if my Pain Management Doctor is stating fact or if he is just running scared and if he is stating fact, I don't know if this is federal or state (Alabama) mandated. I spoke directly with the Southeastern division of the DEA in Atlanta this morning and they are not aware of any law of this nature coming into effect and I also contacted another pain clinic locally that has never heard of it either. So I have been trying to reach my Pain Management Clinic and get a copy of the law itself so I will know if it's federal or state and if it is an actual law or just a state regulation and if it's even true but so far no one has called me back so I thought I'd try my luck here and see if anyone has heard of this. This really has me bothered. It looks like either way, true or not, to get adequate pain care I am at least going to have to move out of state if not the entire country. I will ask my questions about that in a different post. But if this is in any way true, and it seems my pain doctor is going to be going by these guidelines whether it is or is not true, it is going to cut my pain meds by almost half. I am on 120 mg of Oxycodone and 8 mg of Dilaudid per day which I was told equals 212 mg of Morphine per day. And before someone decides to tell me that I don't need that much pain medication, I will go ahead and say to you, you don't know me, you don't know what conditions I have that cause me Daily Severe Chronic Pain and other Daily Severe Pain to warrant that much medication, you don't know my tolerance for pain meds, I do NOT take any pain medication to feel high, I ONLY take pain medication to relieve some of the pain as what I am on doesn't even relieve all of my pain, I do NOT drink, I do NOT do street drugs, I see my doctor every 28 days just as I am supposed to, I take my medication as prescribed and the way I am supposed to take it except when I had extreme oral surgery a month ago and I did have to break up my tablets for about a week but they were put on my tongue and NOT up my nose and they were IR tablets so I was fine doing that as I had checked with my pharmacist prior, and you don't feel what I feel or see me lying in bed 24/7 crying from the pain because it is so excruciating and unrelenting so please before anyone starts telling me that I don't need that much pain medicine just stop now before you even start. Those of you that have to live with daily pain will surely understand where I am coming from being this defensive as I'm sure you know you are treated as a drug addict by most doctors even. Thanks in advance for any help with my question.

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Re: Patrice (# 683)

Wow, attack much? The truth is a scam WAS done to make a lot of $$$ for the drug company and Dr’s were given a cut or incentive. The drug was called “SubSys” and was/is a fentanyl sublingual spray that is immediate release. Fentanyl patches have helped many people continue to work and function. It’s available in generic form, so to keep the highest profit they did as they often do...change the delivery method. Dr’s were told it was good for all pain types and “not addictive”. I’m not a Dr. but I knew what fentanyl was, and didn’t want to take it yet, saving the strongest meds for when I HAD to have them. I went to my pain management Dr. one day and was told I was going to be put on this new drug “SubSys” 600mcg. It was sent UPS right to my house. Each dose was in its own applicator. It resembled an asthma inhaler, but each one had only one dose. The one month supply took up a box a little bigger than a box of reams of copy paper. Very inconvenient, no more putting it in my purse or hidden easily. My son was in high school and I was very careful so he couldn’t just help himself. Sadly, teens do experiment with things. The starting dose for opioid tolerant patients was 100mcg (according to the drug info in the box. I told my Dr. (a Yale Grad) I didn’t want this drug, but he said it was that or nothing. My co-pay was $3,000 a month, but was paid by a charity foundation. I got alarmed when I saw a car following the UPS truck that I saw pull over and write something before driving away to follow the truck. I knew what the box looked like, so anyone could see too. You may be in denial about people who get affected to powerful opiates, though they don’t have pain, they use it to feel good and keep withdrawal at bay. I quickly packed a bag and left. If addicts (yes, addicts) will rob drug stores, breaking and entering is a walk in the park compared to robbing a drug store. After I moved and had my Dr. refer me to a pain specialist in the area I moved to. I got the referral, but my records and imaging were not sent.

Looking back, that was red flag #1. I would run out before the first available appt. but my old Dr. refused to order another months worth. Told me to call the new Dr. as I was no longer his patient. The new pain specialist couldn’t prescribe me anything without seeing me first. My appt. was 3 weeks later, and I was out in a couple of days. I went into full withdrawal. Though I’d never abused my meds it was horrible. My mom called to chat and I told her what happened. Her husband drove her to my house, and took me to my new PCP. They couldn’t get a blood pressure with the normal machine, but my pulse was 40, and my blood pressure taken by the (Dr. or nurse-it’s so fuzzy) was very low. I’d been fighting to just get to the bathroom, a trip to the Dr. and waiting in the office was torture. Mom brought out a wheelchair and got me, wrapped in the warmest blanket I had (in July in AR) my body was struggling just to remain alive. Horrible is way too nice in describing what I was feeling) my PCP prescribed me just enough (opiate pills) to get me through to my appt with the new pain Dr. after I was able to walk and eat, sleep and think...I wanted to donate to the charity for their help in paying my co-pay. I was told it was a charity that helped cancer patients pay for their meds. I gave them my ID# on the card, and was told my Dr. had told them I was a cancer patient! I was shocked. I actually thought I must have cancer, but my (old) Dr. knew I was alone, my kids grown and no caregiver. That’s a strange feeling. I decided I’d rather not know. Just as long as my pain was managed, I’m not afraid of death. In fact, that’s the only thing that will stop my pain completely.

I expressed my desire to take the smallest effective doses of the meds I needed to be able to live alone. Live with dignity. Years later I found out the whole story. That drug, “SubSys” was only approved for cancer patients. The Drugs manufacturers had set up a whole system allowing non cancer patients to get this name brand only drug that in reality was $30,000 a MONTH. The first month put me into catastrophic coverage, my part was only 1%. ($3000). Another greedy grab by big pharma. Yes, Dr’s had to be part of it and willing to say the patient had cancer while knowing they didn’t. Maybe some didn’t know, but couldn’t resist the reward or incentive offered by the reps. OxyContin was also falsely claiming to be safe and abuse-proof. (When it first came out). The truth comes out in the end, and patients bear the repercussions. In the case of SubSys, I think some Dr’s were reprimanded if they knowingly broke the law. Some were arrested for writing “too many” prescriptions to patients. Pain specialists...well, that’s what they do! Of course they write more pain RX’s than other Dr’s. Greed was behind this whole “opioid epidemic”. Not greed by pain patients, but we get the end result. Pain that’s not treated effectively. Suffering, and the lost ability to care for themselves. The addicts I was talking about that you got so upset that I “dare” to blame are junkies. Apparently illicit drugs are now much stronger, and there have been more overdosing. Those deaths are listed as “opioid deaths” along with pain patients. The numbers aren’t being separated. It makes it look like we (pain patients) are dropping like flies from overdoses.

After decades of pain management I never overdosed, never abused my meds. (I never got OxyContin either) The problem is pain patients are being thrown under the bus from greed by drug companies, some Dr’s, and junkies. If you want to stand up for junkies, that’s your business, but if someone can go through rehab and get off narcotics and have a good life, free from pain, but don’t...yes, I hold them responsible. Anyone who doesn’t have pain but abuses opiates is the enemy in my book, along with greedy drug companies and Dr’s who don’t take their patients best interest into account are the enemy in my book. How Dare I? I dare use common sense. I dare to research and find the truth. I’m trying so hard to live with more pain than I can handle after asking for my meds be lowered to the minimum effective dose so I don’t get such a tolerance that my pain can’t be controlled. Now my minimum is too much. I’d cut my dose (before SubSys) in half, and it’s been hard, but it’s been hard my whole life, but now, that half dose is now 1/4 what I was taking before SubSys. I was able to be active, and was going to get another BS in something I can do from a wheelchair. Now I’m barely able to take care of myself, but I’m afraid to tell them because I’m afraid I’ll end up in a nursing home. I dare speak the TRUTH. Sorry you were offended.

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Re: Grace C. (# 6)

Just now read your message I go to pain consultants of east Tennessee. Been going for 25 years. Doctor Joe browder. They are in weisgarber road.

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Re: GimpyD (# 680)

Before you start pointing fingers at anyone you need to stop and think before you open your mouth. There is no law about how much pain medication your doctor can prescribe. Instead of listening to doctors who are lying to you, go to the AMA website. All that has been written are suggestions. PERIOD. Your doctor can write you anything he/she thinks you need. If your doctor is telling you anything different then he/she is just scared, who knows maybe your doctor has a reason to be scared. Don’t you dare blame this on people who are addicted to the meds that our Doctors wrote us. I was given opiates, barbiturates and even quaaludes at a very young age. I was an addict before I knew what the word even meant. You are no better or worse than me. I’m sorry for whatever you were born with that is so painful but don’t you blame people for what the Pharmaceutical Companies started with their OxyContin. BTW. I’ve never even taken the drugs you are talking about. If you need to blame someone then ask your doctor why he/she is lying to you. That’s no one's fault.

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Re: Eileen (# 9)

I? have been told the same information from my pain management doctor but even more recently told been told that that no more than 90mg total per person per day may be prescribed recently had a medicene pump put in so medicene needed should be less and side effects also will be less this was not a easy decision but with the government sticking their nose in where it doesn’t belong they will continue to force doctors hands to be tied and frankly do not feel would want to continue to live in constant pain with no relief in site this is not a easy road we travel for good headlines for the government. this is going to be my answer praying one bad apple has made it tuff for all of us good luck God Bless

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Re: Anne (# 18)

Hi, I'm in the same boat with the 120mg "law". My Dr. has cut me from 100mcg of fentanyl to 25mcg in 2 months. Also I was taking 15mg of oxy for breakthrough pain. The withdrawals are unbearable, I had 3 back operations & a spinal fusion. Also after all that I still need an operation on another disc (L5-S1) which I begged my surgeon to do at the same time to include it in the fusion. But we patients don't know anything about our bodies or our pain. Due to a very low hemoglobin problem (for which I've received 7 blood transfusions in less than a year) I can't even consider surgery. I've been seeing my pain Dr for over 10 yrs & it took years to get the right combination of medicine to be able to have some quality of life. Now it's all been taken away by some jacka**'s that don't know what chronic, long-term pain is. My basic civil rights to lead a somewhat normal life are being trampled on. And I'm sick about it. Whoever is in charge or formed this group to resist and call this so-called mandate, but not a real law out as the b.s. it is please contact me.

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Here’s what I see going on...Big pharma made tons of money on OxyContin and SubSys (sublingual fentanyl spray) at up to $30,000 a month! They told Dr’s these meds were “abuse proof” and not addictive. Good for all pain from headache to cancer pain. Dr’s wrote prescriptions like crazy thinking it was “safe” (and getting kickbacks) well, they were addictive, and addicts found ways to abuse them. They are now generic so not making big bucks for pharma...But ya know what is? Subutex and drugs that stop withdrawals in addicts. No pain relief at all. Every other commercial is about “addiction is a disease and addicts deserve compassion and dignity"...then they give numbers to call to get off the drugs they abused. Get their lives back. Sunshine and puppies and rainbows...yea, no more addicts, as long as they keep taking the expensive drugs that hold off withdrawal and literally can’t be abused. That’s what gets to me.

Big Pharma and addicts who don’t (or no longer) have pain caused the disaster we're in, and they are taken care of. Pharma gets $$$, addicts get their life back without going through withdrawals. Pain patients on the other hand get no compassion. We are made out to be addicts because we take these meds to live the closest thing we have to a normal life. Cutting my pain meds just means I won’t be able to take care of myself. I’m alone so it looks like a nursing home for me. I get enough to lay in bed If I’m very careful. One wrong move and I’ll be in the ER and they are told not to give any injections, and only enough pain pills to get us through until the next day the pain Dr’s office is open. Not like they’ll be able to see me. Genocide. Get rid of pain patients if big pharma can’t keep making big bucks off us. Opiates are labeled “evil” now. Anyone taking them must be an “addict”. If we can’t function on the reduced levels then we need to go away one way or another. It’s just driving me nuts to watch commercial after commercial about “getting your life back” when mine is going down the toilet. We didn’t ask for this. We didn’t get rich or abuse our meds, but we are being shoved off to side in this circus and it’s not funny. No compassion for us.

Nobody understands this kind of pain unless they live it. What’s ironic is I cut my meds back myself because I know I’m not going to get better. I wanted to save the stronger drugs for when I HAD to have them. I chose to take on more pain so there would be meds that worked later. I was taking the minimum dose I need to just live in my house, not a nursing home. Now they are cut back to an amount where I just can’t do anything. My mom died. She’s all I had. She understood. I’ve been struggling since birth. She knew I don’t lie, and how hard it is for me to ask for help. I learned very young that sometimes I’m just stuck in pain and there’s nothing I can do about it. I wanted to move but now it’s too late. Now I just pray to die. I won’t kill myself. No way. But I see no help on the horizon. I’m tired of surgeries. I’m tired of pain. This body is worn out. But I’m still here. If I were a dog I’d be put down. I wish they’d at least have the decency to do the same for me. It’s beyond cruel. Thanks big pharma and addicts who don’t even have pain that makes doing normal things impossible. Enjoy your lives. You ruined ours. I’m glad I don’t get that karma.

I don’t know what I did in a past life that made me be born with defects, and go through all I did just to be given to pain management when they couldn’t cut on me anymore. Greed. Medicine for money. This is what we’ve sunken to. I hope some intelligence comes soon. If not for me, for crippled children that will be me at 60. To deny such a basic right as the right to use effective pain medicine if it’s proven to allow me to live independently. Nursing homes are going to be over capacity anyway. Putting pain patients there when we could be reading to children in schools, teaching a struggling child to read. I did that 25 years. I miss it. I miss having friends. Going out to eat. Camping, having a family. Beware the precedent this is setting. It’s happened before. I’d hoped it would never happen again. It is. I can’t be the only one who sees it for what it is...I’m much less afraid of dying than I am of what I see this country becoming.

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Re: BL (# 675)

It’s what my pain specialist is telling me and other patients. No exceptions. She is young and only does pain patients, so I’m assuming she writes more RX for these meds than most because there are few options in this state. People drive hours to get to the nearest pain specialist. She’s probably still paying off loans. It seems older Dr’s who’ve seen it all are more compassionate and know they can just retire if they have to. That’s just an observation, no proof.

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Re: BL (# 673)

Your correct. I talked to my ex yesterday and he told me the same thing. He’s upset that they won’t write his prescription for one more pill a day. He is in horrible pain. His whole personality and even his looks have changed. You can see the look of pain pills in his eyes. The only thing that’s going to happen is black market sales will soar. The FDA/DEA aren’t helping anyone. This is all about the WOD’s.

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Suffering Daily from Pain (thread starter) --

Hi suffering... I’m not judging you and I hope no one else does either. You are right, no one but you knows how bad your pain is, so if anyone says anything then that’s their stuff. Ignore them. I went to the AMA.org site today looking for the guidelines for doctors concerning chronic pain sufferers. There is no law telling doctors what or how much they can prescribe. What it is are suggestions... While I’m certain that doctors are scared, that’s all it is. A doctor has nothing to fear if he/she is not overprescribing. I gave you the website so you can read it and hopefully you will feel more at ease. When you get on the site it will be easy to find.

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Re: BL (# 668)

I’ve got them, but they were from when I was first sent to pain management and the surgical DuPey disaster. That was 2008. I need new scans and X-rays. Have to try to get them before Jan.

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Re: GimpyD (# 674)

Please post the link to that Arkansas Law limiting 100 mg Morphine/Morphine Equivalent. Daily Dosage. I have looked for it. But, I can't seem to locate it. Thanks.

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Re: BL (# 673)

Yes, and Arkansas passed a law making the limit 100mg of morphine equivalent. Even worse than the federal guidelines. Ugh. It’s gonna be a hard year. What countries can pain patients move to and get quality care without politicians playing Dr?

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Re: Patrice (# 672)

The seven day limit for CVS is for Acute Pain. It is not for those with Chronic Pain.

Some States have passed laws limiting prescriptions for Acute Pain and first-time opioid prescriptions to seven, five or three days. Laws vary depending on the state.

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Re: Bart (# 19)

You're right... All the DEA did was write a letter to Doctors suggesting those guidelines. The problem now however is Pharmacies like CVS are limiting patients to a seven day supply... In Ca there are doctors sending their patients to Methadone clinics. Problem with that is the clinic by law can only treat addicts, so Chronic Pain sufferers are having to lie and say they are addicts. These new laws aren’t going to help patients at all. There is going to be a huge black market.

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Re: Grace (# 26)

I used to live in Knoxville I went to one called Omega and there was one right of the interstate you can see the signs. My wife said it is National Pain Institute. I hope this helps.

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He is not being completely honest with you. This is a mere SUGGESTION NOT MANDATORY! Just as they are claiming primary Dr. can no longer write monthly scripts also NOT TRUE. COMPLETELY UP TO EACH DR. Many don't want the ramifications of all the headache that comes with people not being responsible and I believe many Dr.s overprescribed to people that didn't necessarily need such quantities and afraid of losing their license. I'm speaking for NYS laws.

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Re: Grace (# 26)

Grace, have you tried Beardon Pain Management Center? I have a relative who started going there after her PCP said he had to wean her off all pain meds, because of new laws, they are putting the squeeze on PCPs. Best, will say a prayer for you.

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Re: GimpyD (# 665)

You can call your previous doctors and hospitals to see if they still have a copy of your medical records. You usually have to pay for the cost of copying medical records. But, if you were on a high dose of opiates it probably won't make any difference.

If a dry climate helps with your pain. It would be best for you to move. You also might want to see other pain doctors before you move. You have no way of knowing what another pain doctor will prescribe you until you see them.

Be sure and get copies of your medical records from your current pain doctor and other doctors before you move. It will help with your new doctors when you move.

Your Medical Records-
hhs.gov/hipaa/for-individuals/medical-records

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Its not a law. The state and federal Government is investigating any doctor that prescribes over 90mg. My doctor pushed me down to it. He then dropped me and anyone over that dosage. I will be out of meds in 3 days more than likely hospital in 4 or5 days. If my heart survives. Good luck. Doctors just dont care nor our government.

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Re: Duran Duran 4 life (# 660)

He did cut me down to 90mg a day from 366mg. I have found out that they will make him do insane paperwork to keep me. Also he dropped me as a patient and many others. I will be out of meds in 3 days. I was sent to a possible replacement he just come here from ohio. Told me he did not want a patient that has been chopped up from incompetent doctors in my area. I have seen over 100 doctors. This doctor should have not gotten his license her. I expect to be in hospital in 4 or 5 days. Good luck.

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