Taking This Med, The Reaction From This Med (Page 2)
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I was recently placed on this medication for sevear lower back pain. I recently found out that I have a herinated disk in my back, and disk degenerative disease. My doctor placed me on Dilaudid 8mg, which took all of my pain away. I felt very disorientated, though. I am now on the 4mg tabs every 6 hours. I noticed my pain is dull, but still there. Why do I have to fell out of it to be temoraily pain free? I have been on Vicodin HP, Morphine 60mg, Percocet 5, 7, and 10 mg. I have bounced from med to med trying to find the best results in my case. I am lost for what to do. The med that seemed to help the most was the Vicodin Hp, but I was afraid of the addiction factor. I know I will be on pain meds for the rest of my life, should I even be concerned about addiction?

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I've used the morphine pump while in the hospital for a week or two at a time. It worked for pain but after about a day or two I got really bad headaches, we had to change to a dilaudid pump. This worked really well for me. Perhaps I should look into that again. Good idea.

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I'm glad things have settled down here. I flew to Las Vegas for a few days to try some Diversion Therapy LOL! Besides for toting my luggage and sitting more than I like it was nice. Well hot, but it is summer. I was going to let this go but there are a couple things that are important to me here. The first is that I don't always read or hear things the way the writer or speaker wants me to. I can frustrate the most patient of people without even trying. Sleeping meds or not my sleep is not what it used to be and I'm not well rested. I'm stressed from pain and I worry about what the future holds health wise. I'm slower than I used to be and yet I'm at times edgy and impatient. So I understand when others who live with chronic pain feel the same. We all share a common problem and its one that no one else in this world can understand unless they hurt endlessly also. I have seen people on sites like this who are intentionally nasty and it shows. I haven't seen that from any of you in this discussion and I believe everyone has the best of intentions. I get defensive quickly at times because of those negative minded people but I believe we can weed them out and eliminate their hurtful agenda by being patient and understanding of each other. I respect anyone who will take the time to write when they are hurting so intensely.

The issue of addiction is a pet peeve of mine because of the misperception the general public has about narcotic pain relievers. I will say again, Addiction is Drug Seeking Behavior. Worries, concerns, fears or whatever a person might have about taking narcotic pain medication should not involve addiction. If a person has chronic pain they need to take strong pain medication on a regular basis. That is called dependence. Dealing with chronic pain is in the same realm as dealing with Diabetes in that a person with diabetes is dependent on insulin. There have been countless studies on this and one that I'm the most familiar with was done in the early to mid nineties. It involved over 3,000 burn victims. I have had skin grafts and I can tell you healing from a burn is as painful as anything I have ever imagined! The burn victims were all on very large doses of narcotic pain medication for at least six months. When their burns healed they were slowly triturated off the pain medication. The percent of patients who became addicted and continued to seek pain meds after being healed was around 3%. The average addiction rate in America is almost 8%. Meaning that almost 3 times more people in society exhibit drug seeking behavior than those who needed and used the drugs for pain.

I understand not liking how a person feels on certain drugs. There are drugs I plain don't like. Our bodies produce endorphins, our livers have enzymes to break down pain meds and we have receptors for those pain meds. Most all CII meds are broken down easily and well tolerated in our bodies without damage. Medications like acetaminophen will cause damage in large doses or taken for long periods. So people taking Morphine, Dilaudid, Oxycodone, Methadone, Demerol and other CII narcotics need not have major concerns over wanting a natural or holistic approach as they are actually quiet natural.

If a medication is not working or you don't like how you feel on it, talk with your doctor. When I used Duragesic patches in the early nineties I had to put on new patches every 2 days because I would begin to hurt. At first my doctor increased my dose from 125mcg to 175mcg but I still began to hurt on the 3rd day. We finally went back to 125mcg every other day and I did well. Its takes adjustment.

There is another option for people that have not been able to get adequate pain relief from oral doses of the above mentioned medications and they either don't want to use Duragesic because of fears the patch may come off in bed and a child or spouse my come in contact or they don't like how they feel on it. Its called a Morphine Pump. I know several people who have had a pump installed and it changed their life! The pain clinic I go to here in Birmingham has over 160 patients with pain pumps. Its invasive in that a surgeon needs to place the pump inside the abdomen and run a line into the spinal canal. It has a reservoir that holds a month worth of Morphine. The pump can be adjusted outside the body after installation by the doctor with what I believe is radio transmitter so that if more pain control is needed it can be turned up or down. It takes a very small dose of Morphine because it is being injected straight into the spinal canal. You have to go in once a month to have the reservoir refilled by a needle that is poked through your skin. The pump is good for those who have problems with addiction because there is no way to take extra pills and the dose is so low that even if they found a way to turn the pump up it would not be enough to get high.

Best wishes to all of you and hang in there!

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Sleplesnes...what state were you working as a child abuse hotline worker? I worked as a child abuse investigator for many many years as I was finishing up my education curriculums. I think doing that and being raised in foster care caused me to want to be a foster/adoptive parent. I kind of adopted my daughter by accident. My sisters best friend found out she was pregnant and called me and asked me to take her for an abortion appt., I just couldn't do it. She called me back and said she would have the baby if I would adopt her/him. I said fine....19 hours later my daughter, Kira, was born at 22 weeks, weighing only 1lb and 8oz., and 12 inches long. She was so sick with so many types of drugs and alcohol in her system. she was supposed to be completely blind from the oxygen, (she doesnt even wear glasses!), have terrible cerebral palsy, (she doesn't!), have an IQ of 50 or less, (she is not an A student but I will settle for the B's). She is14 years old, 58', 120lbs and a dancer and basketball player! How is that for one of God's miracles? The other two I have now were both failure to thrive babies, they would have lived their lives in the hospital or long term facility. I was asked to try and work with them and now they are both up to their proper weight, and are not delayed, (this took lots of work on my part though, I still have to feed them every 1 1/2 to 2 hours just like infants, and will have to until they are 1 or so. Also, I was a director of group homes for a while when they closed down Byberry state hospital and other state hospitals in PA. I know what you mean about those clients. Some of them came to us without names or birthdates. We had to make up names for them and assign them birthdates. How sad! They had many surgeries and abuse as well. I was glad to be part of closing down those facilities! Okay, enough rambling. I guess we have more in common than we knew we did. I hear you about the grandkids...yo can spoil them and then give them back!

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Jeffrey, I made a mistake...I did not mean to write the bit to you about the Vicodin, it was supposed to be in the email to sleplesnct. She was talking about taking 1000 mg of Vicodin and I was just telling her that the highest dose hydrocodone comes in is 10mg/750, but she and I already got that cleared up. Sorry Jeffrey I wasn't looking closely at who Iwas sending that phrase too. Also, I told you in the last post that I absolutely did not feel like you were complaining about your pain. That whole email was not directed at you, none of it was, but again sleplescnt and I have gotten past that. Did not mean to add to the confusion. Even if you were complaining about the pain (and you werent) we all have to do that at times.

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Very welcome. nenene is also disabled and I know she had a few bad days recently, so if she isn't online today, just give her some time and she will respond. Seems like all us disabled people with chronic pain issue gravitate towards each other. LOL!

I wanted to try pain management myself, but would you believe, when I finally got an appointment and went in, I found out they NO LONGER DO THAT. Geez, the only close to me, too. The doc there is only there part time, so he doesn't like prescribing narcotics or such to people and not being able to monitor them as much as he should, so he stopped doing it. Now they only do post-surgery injections and treatments to help with inflammation from surgical procedues. Mainly steroids, and nothing that would help me at all with my condition, he flat out admitted that, then had the nerve to ask if I wanted a procedure anyway since I was there. I just looked at him in disbelief, then left the place in tears. I just had my hopes so high.

I had been in pain so long, and tried everything suggested by my doc, even no narcotics for over a year. Then I lucked out, and a doc who while being a GP, but has taken pain management courses to help those who can't go to pain management, joined my docs practice. So I am finally getting the help I need, as after viewing my condition, he isn't afraid to sign the scrips, especially since I do not ever go in needing them early or something, so I am obviously not abusing them. I also will stick it out on a dose as long as possible, and I am also open to occasionally adding other things, instead of upping the narcotics. Yesterday we added a steroid pack, the shots helped but the effects don't last very long, so we thought maybe a prescription pack that I take in a descending dose over a few days would help.

LOL! I am 35, with an 11 year old and I could not handle little ones, I just don't have the patience it requires. My own child was different, we wanted to have him, so there was never any issues about it, and if I caught myself getting impatient I would just go off by myself for a little bit and calm down, maybe have some coffee, a cig or whatever I needed. Crying alone for a few minutes doesn't hurt, and it saves a lot of stress on the parent, I wish more would think that way. Then jobs like the one you had could be phased out, but unfortunately our world isn't like that.

Anyway, my husband used to work for, and then managed for awhile, a personal care home for people with the double diagnosis or mental retardation and mentall illness. They all came from a state institute that had been shut down for abuse, so some of these people had surgery done without anesthesia, teeth pulled with no numbing and etc. It was just awful. The company was just trying to open houses as fast as they could to get these people out of there so the state could permanently close the place.

It just astounded me when my husband told me about it, and why these people were being moved to smaller residential facitilies, each of these houses had only 5 or 6 patients at a time. And they really made it just like a home for them, books and bookshelves, no institutional look, they were carpeted, fancy kitchens, and etc. Most of the time, when they first moved these people in, they were terrified to even move, if you sat them in a chair, that is where they stayed, even to the point of not going to the bathroom. So my husband and the other employees had to have a lot of patience with them. Taking them to the doc or dentist was also hard at first, until they learned they weren't going to be tortured anymore.

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zippysgoddess - I'm glad you understood me. Thank you!

nenene123 - Thank you, I will let you know what happens. Actually, I was just asking a few friends yesterday about pain management. Was thinking about looking into it when I get back from GA. I miss her!!!
Oh, a bit of info you may be interested in - It is always wonderful to here about adopting children and being a foster parent....believe it or not, I worked for the Child Abuse & Neglect Hotline at the Department of Children and Families when I had to go out on disability retirement.
I don't think I could manage every day with little ones at 49. When the grandchildren arrive in the future, I can play with them, spoil them, and then give them back!! hehe

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Oh and just wanted to add, for severe pain cases, Fentanyl patches have no been cleared by the FDA to be used every 48 hours to keep a higher dose in your body.

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AUGH! nenene, please calm down, this is really all a misunderstanding, Sleplesnct wasn't trying to be mean. You just didn't get the phraseology he/she used. Not that they were saying the posts and info didn't help much, they were saying that their sympathies to the person would not help much in any way. Don't worry, she just misunderstood, I sent her a note and am clearing it up for you.

She spent many years in academia, studying to get her PHD, and she is not always familiar with the various phrasings that some people use that might be termed idiosyncratic or used mainly in certain areas.

I confused her the other day by using the word dang. LOL!

Anyway, Jeffrey, if you do not like taking all that Acetaminophen, and I understand why, there are new versions available that contain Ibuprofen instead, you can get the same med that works best for you, Hydro, but without the Acetaminophen, they go from 200mgs of Ibu up to 1000mgs in the different meds.

As to preferring the ones with the Aceta or Ibu, but needing a stronger narcotic for pain control, your doctor can write a scrip for higher than the max 10mgs that is already available, then they can send you with the scrip to a pharmacy in your area that does compounding in store, they will create it for you, in capsule form. I know someone who is already have this done and gets 15mgs of Hydrocodone with 200mgs Ibuprofen.

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NENENE123, I WASN'T COMPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING, I WAS JUST PASSING ALONG MY EXPERIENCES, SO THAT SOMEONE MIGHT GLEEN SOME USEFULL KNOWLEDGE FROM IT!! I KNOE VICODEN COMES IN MANY FORMS, I KNOW THAT THE MOST POTENT ONE THERE IS IS VICODEN H/P AND I BELIEVE IT IS 10/650, 10 MG OF VICODEN & 650 OF TYLENOL! I WAS TELLING (EVERYONE) ANOUT NORCO, 10/325, I BELIEVE IT IS BETTER FOR PAIN RELIEF AS IT HAS THE MOST NARCOTIC, 10MG OF HYDROCODONE AND ONLY 325 OF TYLENOL, OR ACETAMINOPHIN!
I DON'T LIKE TAKING ALL THAT TYLENOL THAT IS PRESCRIBED SO LIBERALLY, IT'S DAMAGING TO YOUR LIVER OVER TIME!!
SORRU IF THERE WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING!!
J.K.

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If he doesn't go for that combination of medications, let me know and I could research and suggest some more. Have you thought of maybe going to a pain specialist? Sometimes they are better at this than a regular doctor. I hope your trip to GA goes well. Yes, I love having the children around. I have had 24 foster children so far and adopted my 14 year old at birth. I have had my 9 month old daughter and 11 month old son from birth as well. It looks like I will be adopting them too. I love having them around but I'm not sure if I want to make a go of at 47. Here I go one more time...it is like raising twins. I have always been single so I have raised all of these children a a single, working mom. Our kids bring so much to us though dont they? Mine seem to know when I am in pain and my fourteen year old helps whenever possible. She is a great kid and loves her brother and sister.

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Nenene123....I'm still sorry that you felt I was being rude. My first sentence most probably could have included another word or two for clarification. I've read it over and over myself and see me giving my best wishes and blessings. I have a difficult time concentrating. My central nervous system is starting to cause problems with thinking of words and speaking them. I tried to explain what I meant. I suppose you're right...it's useless. No need to respond.
Am sorry that you are not working anymore. It has been a little over a year for me. It is fortunate for you that you have the children around. Hard for them, I’m sure when they can tell you are in pain. Difficult for you on the rough days, but at the same time must be endearing and comforting to have them around. I hope you have plenty of help on the “off” days. My daughter is 20 and lives far away and her Dad lived in Oregon and just passed away, so I will be traveling to GA to spend some time with my daughter. No, pain can't stop or guess I can say shouldn't stop us from living, raising children, and grandchildren some day. I feel bad for the people that just sort of give up. One of my best friends of 27 years needs lots of encouragement to keep going. Anyway, I would just like to say “Thank You” for the advice. At least I now have an avenue of discussion to go with on my next doctor visit. I definitely need to upgrade!
Once again, bless all and may we all have more comfortable days than not.

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Sleplesnct, I am not going to respond to your posting anymore. We just aren't getting anywhere. I have read it and reread it several times and it hasn't changed the way I feel it cam across. Anyway..back to the original question. It doesn't sound like you have had to used the very strong stuff yet, mosty vicodin and now percocet. Usually, Oxycontin or morphine would be the next step. A lot of insurance companies are not covering oxycontin any more because it is so expensive. Have you thought about using Duragesic or Fentanyl patches? I have found them to be very effective. They last for 3 days and go from 25mg - 100mg. Using something like that and then Percocet for breakthrough pain might help. By the way....I am not working at my job have been on disabilty for 1 year now as I am struggling with lupus, fibromyalgia and insulin dependent diabetes. I miss my work too. I stay at home now and raise my 14 year old adopted daughter and my 9 month and 11 month old foster children, whom I've had since birth. I just cant let pain stand in the way of some kind of life. It is not always easy as you know, moving around and being in pain is no fun. I hope you find the combination you are looking for. Some people are using Lyrica on a regular basis and Percocet for break through pain now and having lots of success too.

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Nenene123, I did not dismiss help from pelota4. I asked for help from the person. It is just a shame that you misunderstood me. I think it is difficult for anyone to tell their story like pelota4 and Jeffrey did. That is what I meant by not that it helps. I did not think I was being rude at all. Since their were all different meds that this person tried, I only posted what my disabilities were in the hope that the person might be able to give me some advice from the medications they tried. Also, I did not dismiss what you said about the dosage of Vicodin...I merely said I took the highest dosage that there is and what I was told by the doctor that administered it to me was that it was like taking two 5/500's. That does not mean that he was necessarily right. Not all doctors are. When I asked for something stronger, I was given the Percocet 10-325. I wouldn't know if it is stronger or not, because as you pointed out the important part is the hydrocodone in Vicodin, which was also 10.
My life is fine, I laugh when I walk into walls or fall and learned not to worry if someone thinks I'm drunk when I'm walking. We all have problems. I did not post here to ridicule or be ridiculed. If you misunderstood me at all, maybe you should have politely asked what I meant instead of smashing me. You don't know me and it is difficult to write sometimes; people can't hear your voice with any kind of tenderness or concern. Writing becomes merely black and white and I've never claimed to be a good writer.
No one is perfect, even pharmacists. I know I’m not, but I do know that I am an honest and good person and would ask someone before accusing him or her. Congratulations to you for still being able to work. I loved my job and can’t be there anymore. No….not complaining, just truly happy for you even after the mean things you said. Since you are up on your pain meds, perhaps you can go back to my original note and see if you know any combination that might help. That’s the whole intent here….to get advice, isn’t it? Take it or leave it. By the way, I’ve never even done this kind of thing before, because I don’t like talking about this stuff. However, when I read these other peoples comments and about their pain and medications they have tried, I thought I’d give it try. Well, there’s a first and last time for everything. Thanks!

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By the way Jeffrey, I know it is hard to find the right combination of medications for pain and I think you are doing the best you can by being willing to try different things. I have found that IV Demerol works very well; however, the pills seem to be useless, unfortunately, the same can be said about the Dilaudid. Have you thought about the combination of your norco and 75mg or 100mg duragesic patches? They last for 3 days and run from 25mg to 100mg. If you have a good prescription plan its not bad. I don't and the 75mg cost $320 for a month's supply. Perhaps Dilaudid and Duragesic (or generic fentanyl) would work. To whoever said that 80mg oxycontin goes for $35; there are folks out here who pay $10 for 10mg; $20 for 20mg, etc., etc.

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No Jeffrey I was absolutely not referring to you. You posted some really good advice. Iwas referring to sleplsnct. No I am not bitter at all, but I just cant believe that you just brushed off anything Pelota4 had to offer. You said thanks for your story and she is a trooper, etc.; however, people who start off their response with not that it helps any have already closed the door to listening to anything helpful; therefore, the posting just becomes a place to complain about their pain. There is nothing wrong with complaining about one's pain most of us are dealing with serious physical, chronic pain so we know what that is like and we all need to complain now and again but to make someone feel like what they had to offer was of no help is just, well....rude.

By the way, you are still completely wrong about the Vicodin. It absolutely does NOT come with 1000mg of acetaminophen. The highest milligram Vicodin comes in is 10mg of hydrocodone and 750mg of acetaminophen. As a pharmacist, I really should know this. I think this is just another example of your inability to hear what people have to say. Why write for advice if you are just going to combat what facts are stated, and or tell someone they didn't help at all? You really should think about how you would feel if someone told you the same thing. Please don't insist that you are correct about a medication when you are not. No, this site is not meant to be mean to anyone. That's exactly what I was trying to point out to you...you were being mean to someone you got a response to. As for me....I am having a great life...too bad I can't say the same for you, as it is obvious that you are not. So sad!

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No Jeffrey, I believe nenene123 was referring to me. I was asking for advice and apparently when I mentioned that it doesn't help much, but thanks for your story, she took it as being mean! It was a simple kind gesture that he posted his story and that obviously it doesn't help much by my being apologetic or sorry for all his pain. Aparently letting him know he was a trooper didn't sink in. If you re-read, I didn't complain, merely posted what I had so that maybe Pelota4 would be able to give me some advice as to all the pain meds he mentioned. As for you....I won't stoop that low. You seem too bitter for me to even respond to this. I don't believe that this is what the website is intended for. Oh, and by the way the Vicodin was the highest dosage that it comes in and if broken in half was considered 500 apap. Have a great rest of your life kid.
Sorry Jeffrey....sometimes, well, you know....sometimes!

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NENENE123, WE'RE YOU TALKING TO ME WHEN YOU SAID I WAS JUST COMPLAINING ABOUT MY PAIN? I WAS RELUCTANT TO EVEN POST MY SITUATION ON THIS WEBSITE/FORUM, BUT I KNOW THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE IN SIMALARE SITUATION & THOUGHT I MIGHT GET SOME ADVISE THAT COULD BE HELPFULL TO ME? I HAVE DECLINED PRESCRIPTIONS OFFERED TO ME FOR OXYCONTAIN! THEY ARE HIGHLY ADDICTIVE & I DON'T LIKE THE WAY THE MAKE ME FEEL! ONE OF MY DOCTORS MY (PAIN MANAGMENT SPECIALIST) HAD ME ON THEM, 80MG. OF OXYCONTAIN 3X A DAY AND I WAS STILL SUFFERING, SO HE OFFERED TO DOUBLE MY DOSAGE TO 2 80MG OXYCONTAIN 3X A DAY, IN ADDITION TO MY NORCO 10/325, 3X A DAY AND MY VALUME 10 MG 3X A DAY!! (NOTE) THE NORCO 10/325 IS THE SAME AS THE VICODEN YOU WERE TELLING SLEPLESNCT ABOUT EXCEPT THERES ONLY 325 MG OF TYLENOL IN THEM SO THEIR NOT SO BAD ON THE LIVER!! ANY WAY, I'M TOLD THAT DRUG ADDICTS PAY AS MUCH AS $35.00 A PIECE FOR THESE OXYCONTAIN 80 MG, SO I GUESS SOME PEOPLE LIKE THE EFFECTS THEY GIVE YOU? I'M LOOKING FOR A MEDICATION THAT WILL KILL MY PAIN WITHOUT THESE SIDE EFFECTS!! I'VE HAD 4 SUGRERIES AND AM TOLD THAT ALL HAS BEEN DONE, THAT CAN BE DONE!! MY ONLY OPTION NOW IS TO MANAGE THE PAIN!! THATS WHY I SEE A PAIN SPECIALIST, WE'RE GETTING CLOSE TO THE RITE COMBINATION OF MEDS THAT WILL MANAGE MY PAIN, WITHOUT ALL THE ADVERSE SIDE EFFECTS!! SO, I WISH ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT THERE SUFFERING AS I DO WITHOUT MY MEDS, THE BEST OF LUCK!! I WOULD RECCOMEND SEEING A PAIN SPECIALIST, IT'S THE BEST THING I'VE DONE!! INSTEAD OF TAKING ALL THESE VERY ADDICTIVE MEDS LIKE OXYCONTAIN, MY DR. HAS GIVEN ME ALTERNATIVE MEDS THAT WORK MUCH BETTER WITHOUT ALL THE SIDE EFFECTS!!

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what a mean thing to say not that it helps any, but thanks for your story... This person was genuinly trying to help by listing several options. It sounds like you just posted because you wanted to complain about your pain, not get constructive help or possibilities. Zippysgoddess is right though...there is a big difference between addiction and dependence.

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sleplesnct...there is no such thing as Vicodin 1000mg. There is Vicodin that has 500mg of acetiminophen so two of them would be 1000mg. How much hydrocodone is in it though? 2.5mg, 5mg, 7.5mg or 10mg? That's the important question.

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Pelota4 - not that it helps any, but thank you for your story and best wishes to you also. You sound like a trooper!! Everyone tells me I am. Like all of you above, I live with pain every day. I have a very high tolerance to any medication....get used to it very quickly. In order to not have to take the medication all the time and constantly have the dosage raised, I tend to hang on as long as possible before I will take the pain meds.
Have nerve damage, fibromyalsia/polymyalsia, arthritis (lower & upper back, knees, hands), disk problems in my neck and have now recently started with tremors from the nerve damage. None of which is correctible. Have only been on Vicodin 1000 mg and now Pecocet 10 mg. Have great prescription coverage so if you think any of the pain meds you mentioned might help me at least take the edge off (that's all any of us can hope for)...Please send a note!! Bless you all and should we ever meet --- we'll party with no pain!

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